Posts by ILoveTTATT2

32

Have you ever believed something that turned out to be wrong?

by slimboyfat in

apart, of course, from the obvious example of believing the evidence-free assertion of the governing body to be god's representatives on earth.

not to side-step that issue, but i wonder if it might be interesting to relate that huge mistake to other things i've been wrong about and how they compare and contrast with the big one.

a couple of examples of things i was wrong about:.

ILoveTTATT2

Which MS is only 50 years removed from the original and contains Kyrios?

I made a mistake. Not 50 years but 100-150 years. See here for P46, which is 150 years removed (200AD): http://www.tetragrammaton.org/tetrapdxf.html P52 is the earliest (125AD) but it's too small to contain parts where it is Kyrios in the text and "Jehovah" in the NWT. There are three texts, some P.Oxy., 2nd century, but don't contain Kyrios in the Then there is P75, from 175AD, which MOST DEFINITELY contains "Kyrios" where the NWT has "Jehovah". There is sufficiently early evidence to disprove Watchtower's theory that the NT had "Jehovah" in early manuscripts and then around the 3rd or 4th century, it was removed. About the Oxy papyrii, thank you for that info, I didn't know. Guess we will have to wait and see if there is some evidence proving the Witnesses right... Even if evidence like that appeared though, it wouldn't make me want to go back to the witnesses, since that evidence would completely destroy anyone's faith in the Bible. Something as important as God's name taken out with no trace for over 2000 years???

32

Have you ever believed something that turned out to be wrong?

by slimboyfat in

apart, of course, from the obvious example of believing the evidence-free assertion of the governing body to be god's representatives on earth.

not to side-step that issue, but i wonder if it might be interesting to relate that huge mistake to other things i've been wrong about and how they compare and contrast with the big one.

a couple of examples of things i was wrong about:.

ILoveTTATT2

1. I believe the New Testament originally contained the divine name.

Based on...? The oldest manuscripts are only 50 years removed from the "original" and they say "Kyrios" where the NWT says "Jehovah", at least on 7 different places. The Hebrew Matthew only contains HaShem, not YHWH, and is considered a forgery (never mentions Christ)... I can't see where you would get the possibility that this could later be found to be true. They'd have to find even earlier manuscripts, and it's almost impossible that all extant manuscripts haven't been found in 2017. There was one example, though, of a mummy mask that was made with ancient greek manuscripts, possibly including Biblical ones, from around 50AD.

12

Found a new difference between the old NWT and the new one...

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

yesterday i read jeremiah 8-11 because that's what was studied in the clam.

i am in a different city and decided to go to the meeting to check it out and possibly ask the witnesses some questions and see how they treat a "newcomer".anyways...nwt, 1984 version:.

(jeremiah 10:13) 13 at [his] voice there is a giving by him of a turmoil of waters in the heavens, and he causes vapors to ascend from the extremity of the earth.

ILoveTTATT2

It may not be much, it doesn't change the meaning of the text much, if at all, but my point was that they go against the "original" hebrew and the ancient translators who all understood the same thing, just because they wanted to be different.

This attitude is seen on their insistence on 607, on the cross vs stake argument, among others.

"We are right even though there's a mountain of evidence saying we are wrong."

12

Found a new difference between the old NWT and the new one...

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

yesterday i read jeremiah 8-11 because that's what was studied in the clam.

i am in a different city and decided to go to the meeting to check it out and possibly ask the witnesses some questions and see how they treat a "newcomer".anyways...nwt, 1984 version:.

(jeremiah 10:13) 13 at [his] voice there is a giving by him of a turmoil of waters in the heavens, and he causes vapors to ascend from the extremity of the earth.

ILoveTTATT2

Yesterday I read Jeremiah 8-11 because that's what was studied in the CLAM. I am in a different city and decided to go to the meeting to check it out and possibly ask the witnesses some questions and see how they treat a "newcomer".

Anyways...

NWT, 1984 version:

(Jeremiah 10:13) 13 At [his] voice there is a giving by him of a turmoil of waters in the heavens, and he causes vapors to ascend from the extremity of the earth. He has made even sluices for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.

NWT, 2013 version:

When he makes his voice heard, The waters in the heavens are in turmoil And he causes clouds to ascend from the ends of the earth. He makes lightning for the rain, And he brings the wind out of his storehouses.

No big deal right?

Well, the previous NWT's footnote shows their extreme hubris in the translation:

“Sluices,” by reading beda·qim′ instead of bera·qim′, “lightnings”; MTLXXSyVg, “lightnings.” See JTS, Vol. 3, 1952, pp. 214-216. Compare Ps 135:7 ftn, “Sluices.”

So M, the Masoretic Text, T, the Aramaic Targums, LXX, the Septuagint, Sy, the Syriac Peshitta, and Vg, the Vulgate, ALL say "lightnings". This means that in Hebrew, in Aramaic, in Greek, in Syriac, and in Latin... ALL scribes AND ancient translators in those languages understood that part to mean "lightnings".

But noooooo... we'll trust an article in the Journal of Theological Studies from 1952 called "Who maketh lightnings for the rain" from Edward J. Kissane that suggests it's not "lightnings", but "sluices". Even though every other translation (that I could see) had "lightnings" in that verse.

I don't have JSTOR access, but if you'd like to read the article:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/23952854.pdf?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

If you want to read more about Edward Kissane:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Kissane

What does this show? Incredible hubris and an incredible willingness to ignore mountains of evidence to the contrary by Fred Franz, who made the previous NWT.

40

Movies I'm Watching

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

i have, for about 6 months now, been trying to watch every single movie that was "cool" or interesting since 1960.it started out with a desire to watch as an adult all disney movies.

then it morphed into all bond movies (except for the non-canonicals).now it's turned into pretty much any and all movies.

here is my list, scratched out are ones i have seen, green are recent next-in line.turns out there was a lot i had never seen before, about 70% because of the cult restrictions!

ILoveTTATT2

The Karate Kid - it was ok, the fighting scenes were pretty boring.
The Exorcist - Not scary, maybe movies aren't scary as an atheist?

39

The Governing Body wishes you...

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

happy ash wednesday!.

ILoveTTATT2

Happy Spring Equinox in the Northern Hemisphere!

39

The Governing Body wishes you...

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

happy ash wednesday!.

ILoveTTATT2

However one pic was missing , an LGBTI pic.

Can you accomodate ?

Hi smiddy,

I'd love to!! Could you please let me know an "official" or "most global" LGBT celebration day?

Most of these are making the GB celebrate every "holiday" or "special day" there is out there.

I was also asked to put horns on them, so perhaps on Halloween.

Coming up:

Northern Hemisphere Spring Equinox
Easter
Cinco de Mayo
Mother's Day
Ramadan
Memorial Day...