after reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
The problem with asking your JW relatives to explain the "generation" change TO YOU is that they see the agenda, probably refuse and it may become confrontational.
Next time they mention to you they have been out in field service, how about asking how they would explain the change to an interested householder! You're off the hook, and it's difficult to accuse a householder of apostasy!
i'm coming back to the uk and will be in town for the 4th november (unfortunately besty and the podlets won't be coming with me) but i would love to meet up with y'all.
especially as i missed the last one.
so, who's up for wagamama's, covent garden, on wednesday 4th november 2009.
Sounds good to me too, love to Besty and the podlets.
Be good to see Jookbeard again, 20 years on.
occassionally (very) i have met jw's that don't know me and i would like to ask them something to make them think.. any suggestions for quick, simple, thought provoking questions to ask jw's that you may meet?.
i seem to remember 'v' did a youtube question along the lines of,.
''how can you belong to a religion that allows blood fractions to be transfused?''.
With many JWs debating scripture can be counter productive but I have found questions such as the following challenge their world view.
"I appreciate your sincerity but tell me, if your beliefs were wrong, would you want to know?"
"If Jehovah's Witnesses didn't exist would it be possible to be a Christian and be saved?"
hi guys.
me and my friend would really like to meet up with some of you who are in the hampshire or surrey area, and possibly west sussex.
(england).
Hi Blooming
I live in Hampshire.
I left 5 years ago, most of my family are still in. I understand all the issues, pm me if you and your friend would like to talk
Snapdragon
i'll be honest and admit that i did.
the 'moses' miracles, solar miracles, jesus miracles - everything.
so no belief bashing from me on this one, i promise.. all the same, how do you reconcile belief in miracles with that little voice in your head that says "hmmmmm?
Fascinating question!
I have a Christian friend who is a medical doctor. Some while ago we had a discussion as to whether God heals people today. She assured me He did as she had had personal experience of such healings following prayer. I had no such experience. And a legacy belief I have carried from my JW upbringing is that this sort of thing ceased in the first century.
My doctor friend and I have a mutual friend at church who is suffering from cancer and before Christmas was given only months to live. Many at church prayed for a healing for her. Two weeks ago she returned to hospital for the results of further tests. She asked the doctor treating her if she'd had a miracle as her friends had been praying for her. The doctor replied that .......the tumours had disappeared!
The human reaction to miracles is disbelief, scepticism. Acts chapter 12 relates that Peter was in prison and the church was earnestly praying for him. Miraculously Peter escaped and went to the house where people were praying for him. He knocked on the door, a servant girl named Ronda recognised his voice and excitedly announced to everyone Peter was at the door. "You're out of your mind" they told her. And these were the people praying for his release! But Peter kept knocking and when they opened the door and saw him they were astonished - as you would be!
I leave you to decide whether my friend's healing is a miracle. What I can do is assure you that I'm not out of my mind!
Snapdragon
hi, this is my first post but ive been lurking around this discussion board for some time now.
my husband (the borg) occasionally posts and i had the pleasure of meeting some great people at the apostofest in covent garden, london last year arranged by bestie and sweetpea , hi to you both and hi to freetothink, mr majestic and everyone that was there hope youre all ok.. my story in a nutshell: raised a jw from birth, my whole family, expect one brother and sister (disfellowshipped) are still jws - basically i was raised in a family who were considered one of the pillars of the congregation, we all pioneered and did the whole witness thing, in fact one of my sisters is a missionary.
my whole jw world crumbled when i learnt about the jw/un connection and from that moment on there was no turning back.
Hi Freetosee
Log on to the UN website, search Watchtower, and lo and behold it's true!!
Snapdragon4
ive viewed this site from time to time over the years and thought it was about time i made a contribution.. last monday morning, glorious day, i was on the phone when the doorbell rang.
two happy, smiling jehovahs witness ladies.
they agreed to call back in ten minutes.
Hi Guys Thanks for all the suggestions, much appreciated. Outofthebox Nice... Is like the Bible says: snapdragon4 planted, Apollos watered but God let them free. Absolutely - only God can make it grow! Snapdragon4
ive viewed this site from time to time over the years and thought it was about time i made a contribution.. last monday morning, glorious day, i was on the phone when the doorbell rang.
two happy, smiling jehovahs witness ladies.
they agreed to call back in ten minutes.
but when I followed up with a question as to the identity of the leadership today neither Ruth nor Rachel was able to name a single member of the Governing Body.
Honesty
Unbelievable I know. They didn't have a clue. As a result, they were very embarrassed. Should they return, I'll pursue this point for all it's worth.
Snapdragton4
ive viewed this site from time to time over the years and thought it was about time i made a contribution.. last monday morning, glorious day, i was on the phone when the doorbell rang.
two happy, smiling jehovahs witness ladies.
they agreed to call back in ten minutes.
I’ve viewed this site from time to time over the years and thought it was about time I made a contribution.
Last Monday morning, glorious day, I was on the phone when the doorbell rang. Two happy, smiling Jehovah’s Witness ladies. They agreed to call back in ten minutes. Time to prepare.
I hastily terminated the call and looked around the living room for signs of incriminating evidence. Crisis of Conscience was best removed from the bookcase I decided, could be a conversation stopper at this stage, but I positioned Steve Hassan’s “Combatting Cult Mind Control” prominently as a bookend near where the two ladies would be sitting.
I marshalled my thoughts as to the strategy to be adopted. Taking in all I had learned about mind control, from Don Cameron’s excellent “Captives of a Concept” and from the wisdom and experience exhibited on this forum.
So, I resolved, listen to what they had to say, establish rapport, establish my agenda not theirs, don’t attack JW beliefs directly but use a third party example, the Mormons would be excellent, don’t get Bible out and argue scripture but ask questions, questions, questions about JW history and development. Above all, be kind, gracious and love them to death.
I spent a couple of minutes on the doorstep listening to their presentation, and then invited them in, sat them down, introduced myself and got on first name terms, offered them a coffee, informed them I was new to the area, was a committed Christian and now attended a local evangelical church. I enquired as to each of their religious journeys, Ruth was born in, Rachel was a convert. ( In Watchtower tradition, names have been changed).
Maintaining the initiative I explained my interest in comparative religion, especially those that developed in nineteenth century America, and asked what they knew about the Mormons. Angel Moroni, book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, etc. It was fairly straightforward to get them to agree that Mormonism wasn’t the “one true faith,” that many Mormon claims were fraudulent so essentially it was a hoax.
So far, so good. I then asked why they thought the fraudulent claims were no obstacle to 8 million Mormons sincerely believing the hoax, which led nicely into a discussion on mind control. Picking up Hassan’s book I read a little section under each of the four essential elements of mind control - behaviour control, thought control, emotional control, information control. I fear I may have choked slightly when I quoted from page 61 under thought control “In totalistic cults, the ideology is internalised as the truth, the only map of reality”. Resolved not to overplay my hand.
I enquired as to the founder of the Jehovah’s Witnesses and was informed Charles Taze Russell, but when I followed up with a question as to the identity of the leadership today neither Ruth nor Rachel was able to name a single member of the Governing Body. I gave an incredulous stare and mocked gently which they took in good humour.
To keep this short, suffice to say I asked various other questions about the history of the movement and was given the booklet Jehovah’s Witnesses, Who Are They, What Do They Believe. Page 6 is all about their modern development and growth. Assurances were given they would be back soon for my views.
Hopefully, to be continued.
Snapdragon4
Excellent resource on Mormonism “When Beliefs Collapse” by Monte Wolverton, Plain Truth Magazine
besty survived the jc last night - more details to follow in due course - he wants to fax a letter to the legal department at bethel but having phoned them from the train this morning, they are being cagey about giving out the number and the 'operative' at the end of the phone wouldn't identify himself either - i think this organisation and its minions think they are in the same league as mi5, the cia, the fbi etc.
lol .
can anyone give us the cult fax number please?
fax number is 020 8906 3938
Snapdragon
