it appears that the work around for the quotes site will be a long term effort.
as the wt plays whack-a-mole with the new sites that pop up, we need to know where the new ones pop up.. so here is my attempt to bring some order to this process.
let's make this a running thread where we put all our links to the mirror sites.. the downside is that the wt will know where to go to find out where the new sites are they have to squash.. the upside is that it is alot easier to put a site up then it is for the wt to take them down!!!.
The downside is that the WT will know where to go to find out where the new sites are they have to squash.
I think that your downside might outweigh the upside.
If there are more sites out there than I know about or can even find, I consider that a good thing. I understand your premise though.
Axel
auld soul posted about a mirror site at www.reexamine.org/quotes/index.htm and so i checked it out.
i went onto the homepage www.reexamine.org and surfed around a bit and clicked onto the "community portal" and found a download section: .
http://www.reexamine.org/index.php/reexamine:community_portal:publication_downloads:secret_publications .
while this may true, it is going to be like killing roaches- they just live on
I don't see how the WT could not see this coming based on the past history of the revolving door of the organization. The door has revolved so much, and couple that with the walk-aways and df'd, and it is easy to see that they have made many enemies.
Well actually I can see how. As progressive/creative as they are in some areas, in others they are still living in the past, and believe and expect that others do so too.
They have not really cared about this (the internet) or former members...until now. They didn't see the internet coming, and it is becoming increasingly evident that they still have not grasped the scope of its reach, power and the implications.
Did they really believe that requiring Quotes to destroy his copies would be the end of this information? If so, they really do not have a clue about this internet thing. If anything, it has now increased exponentially. This is not 1950. This is the information age! If it can be known, it will be.
Congrats to all the new mirrors! and Thank You Quotes!
Axel
according to our new co, elders nor their children are allowed to go to college.
my dad is being deleted.
evidently new material was presented at the elder school.
Welcome Collegegurl!
AA, I believe the wt had a recent study on education a few weeks ago. The latest is that 2yr degree = good, 4yr degree = bad especially anything technically related.
I wonder if this type of action is an isolated event or standard policy now?
Axelspeed
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the christian congregation of jw sent a letter to all congregations regarding hospital liaison committees.
this letter will be read the week of january 30, 2006. i can email a pdf of the letter to someone willing to post it here.
8. Can any doctor or hospital give complete assurance that blood or blood fractions will not be used in treatment of a minor?Okay, that's confusing. I thought blood fractions were okay? Have they backtracked on that?
The expression "thin edge of the wedge" comes to mind. Axel
a few years ago, the organization seemed to be drifting towards reason.
the knowledge book downplayed holidays and blood.. witness kids were told they could go to college.
the new worship book - as a re-edited "united" book - removed all mention of.
Ques: How did they get themselves into this conundrum in the first place and why? Just lack of foresight?
Just my opinion...
I believe they seriously had/have a timetable to shed the blood doctrine. I think there have been definite signs of this happening over the last few years. But they would/will have a hard time saving face or preventing lawsuits. What happened? The internet. Information about the fallacies and problems with this doctrine began to surface and be circulated faster than they could shed the doctrine. The WT likes to control the amount and manner of information being released or changed so that the org can always be seen as the one at the forefront of the light. They must save face. I have in a previous post stated my belief about their embarassment about some of the old light, ...and about some of the current light that they can't shed fast enough. Since the internet puts them under a very scrutinizing eye, and pressures change on terms that are not there own terms...then all cards are pulled off the table.
Axel
a few years ago, the organization seemed to be drifting towards reason.
the knowledge book downplayed holidays and blood.. witness kids were told they could go to college.
the new worship book - as a re-edited "united" book - removed all mention of.
I have always believed that this is their most critical issue,
The UN issue, while an important one ciuld be explained away, and if necessary, could be tagged on a couple of bros. as using extremely poor judgement. Many are accepting the library card excuse...(I thought they could come up with something better myself)
The molestation issue, while extremely sensitive, can be explained away as a few bad apples. And while the policy is extremely flawed, few dubs actually believe that the WT support and promote the idea of molestation. Most dubs dont engage in it, and so are able to justify in their own minds that these are real but isolated incidents. I even realize that the WT defends this position and policy more to preserve their image as god's channel above all else...not necessarily to protect the perpetrator and definitely not to protect the victim.
The blood issue though, is a cornerstone doctrine. No excuses...they taught it, they pushed it, they rationalized it, the df'd on the basis of it...as a matter of organizational policy. Lives, many lives have been lost. It would be the unforgiveable sin in the eyes of too many to have lost so many lives from a policy now considered 'old light.' They can not let it go. The cost would be too great.
In fact, in hindsight and at this point, I believe that if could they would retract the use of fractions at this point, as it is too vague and raises too many questions. Strategically, it would have been better for them if blood was an all or nothing proposition, based solely on their misguided scriptual application. They are trying to get Pandora back into the box...but it may be too late.
Axel
hubby has just come back from the service meeting where they have been handed out brand new style blood cards, now called 'advance decision to refuse specified medical treatment' .
it's quite a bit different.
and has the line on it about giving permission to the hospital liason committee to see your notes and medical records.. very scary stuff i think, and i certainly wont be filling one in.. i'm really short of time tonight, but will scan it in, along with the notes that go with it and try and post it some time over the next day or so if someone else doesn't beat me to it!.
If this is true that the request is that they can view a patient's notes and medical records, and then that photocopies be made and given to those that sign, I would be very interested in the rate of compliance.
Obviously, there is a lot of delusion at work here.
Delusion and arrogance on the part of the WT in even making this request.
Delusion on the part of those who sign that their medical record will not get out...and into the gossip mill. (How far can they go into your records? Will they find out about those depression meds, those erectile dysfuntion meds, treatment for something that you could be df'd for...take your pick)
Delusion on the part of the elders involved, that they won't eventually be on the receiving end of a lawsuit.
I really do not understand the reasoning behind this, other than to say that perhaps there are competing forces at work in WT-land, some of who are attempting to exert more of an influence.
For those who sign without question, I would have one message: Stay. There is obviously a need you have, deeper than even this issue, that is being met.
Axelspeed
(baylor university, waco, tx) an essay entitled, "jehovah's witnesses, blood transfusions, and the tort of misrepresentation," found in the autumn issue of baylor universitys prestigious journal of church and state, published december 13, 2005, exposes the vulnerability of jehovahs witnesses religious organization to massive claims for compensation because of the religions misrepresentation of the medical risks of blood transfusions.
this milestone essay critically examines one of the religions main publications for teaching their children and new recruits about their blood beliefs, how can blood save your life?
the peer-reviewed essay details many misrepresentations of medical facts, which the religion partly relies on to support its blood prohibition, thus denying its members from making fully informed medical decisions.
oh lord...it's the legal equivalent of AWAKE!
LOL....interesting is my thought exactly though.
Axel
if i told you that something bigger is on the horizon than dateline, bbc, cbc, sunday (australia), and all other tv programs which exposed the sexual child abuse cover-up by watchtower in 2002-2003, would you believe me?
have i ever misled you?
i'll answer that--no!
Many are on the edge anyway. The straw indeed.
I my last post I mentioned that at this point at least that R&F would not be affected. I do have to agree though that many are on the edge. I know of a few still in who are tracking this issue to see where the WT goes with it next, now that they see or have been brought to see that the WT has been seemingly making subtle moves away from the doctrine. It could indeed be the straw for those who are thinking.
Axel
during the week of jan 30 at the service meeting, the society's video "a video that highlights an important medical trend" will be discussed using the 12 questions listed below.
does any one know if any of the information in this particular video is mis-quoted or mis-represented?
notice that none of these questions involve scriptures - only medical viewpoints.
I would hold on to that KM....and that video.
Axel
