what_is_truth_7

Joined

• started 1 topics
• posted 12 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by what_is_truth_7

• 
  7

  Pagan Cross vs. Christian Cross

  by Gerard in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  6. cross: jesus did not die on a cross.

  he died on a pole, or a stake.

  the greek word translated "cross" in many bibles meant just one piece of timber.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  what_is_truth_7

  I'm pretty sure the bible has a description somewhere of the cross which should clear this up...Il look when I'm home

  P.s. PRETTY PICTURES! THANKS!
• 
  29

  BIBLICAL PROOF OF THE TRINITY?

  by what_is_truth_7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  biblical proof of the trinity

  colossians 2:17

  beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to christ.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  what_is_truth_7

  right! Time to write it all again!

  And you say the "trinity teaches the father and son are distinct persons". The dogma of the trinity teaches that, not the bible...which is our only source to go from. I know you'll say the bible does teach that, but again, only if you believe in the trinity. Do you understand what I mean?

  Hey you! settle down lol. Any wild comments like this and you have to back it up! :p. I understand but the bible shows the trinity and it is unavoidable I'm finding as I look into it more!

  I'm able to refute alot of the trinity....

  I think you should do this with all the passages provided so far then..yeah it will take a long while..but it is the only correct way that would be worth doing as it would really proove it and not just be ignorance...and hey I've had to write a lot so why shouldn't you!

  I also wonder why it is everyones approach is to try work a way around the Trinity when looking at this issue rather than just looking at the scriptures and what they clearly say.

  John 1 should clear it up...

  this makes me happy! lmao..its so easy. Explain any other way apart from the Trinity how the word (Jesus) could be with God (2 people) and also is God (2 become 1 person)?!
• 
  29

  BIBLICAL PROOF OF THE TRINITY?

  by what_is_truth_7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  biblical proof of the trinity

  colossians 2:17

  beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to christ.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  what_is_truth_7

  Oh ya about that quote what is truth. I dunno that really started me thinkin that the trinity was right when I read that a while ago. But I did some research about the old old OLD school scriptures, straight up hebrews and greek stuff. And the word Theos was used differently in that line... Which kind of wasn't in favor of the trinity. I'd say read the translations word for word of the hebrew and greek scriptures. Almost all bibles were made after the thought of the trinity came to be and it started kind of favoring the trinity in the translations over the years. Come on imperfect men translated these things, stuff change over time. Good old Telephone Syndrome.

  Language/Translation issues:

  In New Testament Greek The Father (John 6:27), The Son (Hebrews 1:8), and The Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4) are all designated with the Greek for GOD (Èåïò)

  Deuteronomy 4:31 declares: For Jehovah your God (Elohim ? Plural) is a merciful God (El ? Singular). Other verses that refer to God in the plural are: Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7.

  Although there are those who would tell us that Deuteronomy 4:6 proves God is not a trinity (For our God is ONE Jehovah. . . ) yet the word for one (in Hebrew) is that same as that used in Genesis 2:24 about marriage (. . . and they become ONE flesh) which clearly relates to a ?one? made up of several parts.

  This man got masters in this stuff..I trust him..sorry! lol Dont know bout that 1st verse in Genesis...but all this point to it being rit.

  aw man i posted this and lost so much stuff! :( sux so bad

  il come on and do tomo..sad :(
• 
  29

  BIBLICAL PROOF OF THE TRINITY?

  by what_is_truth_7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  biblical proof of the trinity

  colossians 2:17

  beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to christ.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  what_is_truth_7

  hey obvious secret! I think you should keep searching. The best thing to do is believe what the scriptures say.

  John 1The Eternal Word
  
  
  Testimony of John the Baptist
  (1) 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend [1] it.

  Here the Word is refering to Jesus. This again clearly shows he is also God. You should read my first post and you'll see alot of evidence of the Trinity.

  I feel it is a most important topic as not believing in the Trinity would take away Jesus's ability to defeat sin and would make him also a liar and blasphemer for saying things like:

  John 12: 44 Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.

  Really think about this one dudes. Jesus is Lord (God is Lord!) and saviour (who else could defeat sin, the bible (in Romans) tells us that ?by grace you are saved through faith not by WORKS? You can?t earn you own way into God?s heaven. Not according to the Bible.) but God himself who alone is perfect..while we are all born in our sinful nature)
• 
  29

  BIBLICAL PROOF OF THE TRINITY?

  by what_is_truth_7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  biblical proof of the trinity

  colossians 2:17

  beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to christ.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  what_is_truth_7

  sorry if sick of hearing me.. I just don't want to appear rude or miss any opportunities!

  This shows more than one person was involved from the beginning in the creation as God said ?us make?.

  PRECISELY not three in one -ARIAN HERSEY ALL OVER AGAIN - HEAR O Israel the lord our God is not actually one God but Three in One

  Did you not read the rest of the document/post you got that quote from!? I then showed how only possibility was for to be Holy Trinity as bible reveals was Gods' hands who made earth.

  The child replied, "Thy work is stranger than mine, for thou art laboring to bring within the grasp of human intellect the conception of the trinity."

  ok this is fun..actually amagine a childs voice speaking these words! lol

  This fatherhood and sonship are allegorical and symbolical. The Messianic reality is like unto a mirror through which the sun of divinity has become resplendent. If this mirror expresses "The light is in me" - it is sincere in its claim; therefore Jesus was truthful when he said, "The Father is in me."

  Why did you tell a story about how it isn't sensible to try grasp the wonders of God with our intellect, and then limit him with a view that clearly brings him down to working on our level within our boundaries limtis and understanding?

  Or did you..sorry I'm really confused with your wording. I'm not great english student.

  The mirror can not say I am the sun ...so they are differnt..like a photograph of me would clearly not be the same as another me running about the place. This is what the bible presents as a picture for the 3 members of the trinity. They are one. "The fullness of the godhead bodily" dwells in christ the scripture reveals. This is much mysterious/bigger than what you are explaining.

  p.s. yes I am a evangelical...I prefer the title born again believer though. It is more detailed! thanx for the welcome! Keep searching!
• 
  29

  BIBLICAL PROOF OF THE TRINITY?

  by what_is_truth_7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  biblical proof of the trinity

  colossians 2:17

  beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to christ.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  what_is_truth_7

  hey guys..here is something a mate who bible studies with me gave me on this:

  Thank you for taking time to reply to our post. Let me clear some things up. Let me assume for now that the Jews do indeed take God to be one entity (I?m trusting you on this one). I hate to come back to the old clichéd shamrock argument used by St. Patrick, but it makes the point well. Look at the leaf of a shamrock. It may be one leaf, but it has 3 separate parts that make up that one leaf. In the same way a tree has different branches, and yet still is one tree, God has 3 parts, yet he is still one God. This would at least partly answer you thoughts about the Jews believing in a "one being God". I do as well.

  Secondly, you mentioned the face that Jesus was a practising Jew, and he knew the Jewish beliefs, so why did he not make clear to them that he was God.

  John 10:38

  But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, you should at least believe my deeds, in order that you may know once and for all that the Father is in me and that I am in the Father."

  This story may help a bit:

  A professor of theology once asked his students to get a sheet of paper and divide it into three columns. In the first column they were to write every passage where Christ is spoken of as God-Man; in the second column all the passages where Christ is spoken of as God alone; and in the third, all the passages where Christ is spoken of as man alone. The papers were badly balanced. The first and second columns filled right up, but as to the third column, no one found a passage speaking of Christ as man alone. There just is no such passage.

  Mat 16:15-17

  "What about you?" he asked them. "Who do you say I am?"

  Simon Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God."

  "Good for you, Simon son of John!" answered Jesus. "For this truth did not come to you from any human being, but it was given to you directly by my Father in heaven.

  Jesus confirms to Peter (and those disciples who were present) that he is correct in saying that he is the Son of God. Jesus also said (John 14:9) Jesus answered, "For a long time I have been with you all; yet you do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father(God). He is again making it clear that not only is he the son of the Father, but he IS the father embodied.

  If Jesus IS the father then he has been "around" since before the creation (we know this because the Father has always existed. I do not believe that Jesus was created. I believe is has always "been" and always will be.

  Finally this brings me to the second post, and hopefully to some issues surrounding the Trinity. We are dealing here with the very nature of God himself, something that I do not believe that we can ever comprehend totally outside of eternity.

  It was mentioned that God could exist in any number of dimensions. I must confess I am not a quantum physicist so I cannot speak about the theory, only tell you what I believe and why. I think that God exists in no dimensions, in that he is beyond everything that "is". We are told that "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. I don?t believe that he could have created it if he was in any way bound by its rules.

  There is no doubt that we live in a wonderful and beautiful universe, and I believe that God is outside of it all. He created Time, Space, and Matter. We cannot comprehend anything without time, though if God created it, he must be outside of it. This leads naturally to the conclusion that we will never be able to comprehend God while we are limited by the constraints of time.

  I hope this goes some of the way to explaining why you say "there is no basis for the trinity in the natural world." When I think about things like this I realize how awesome God really is, and it makes me realize just how awesome it is that he loves me and wants me to be with him.
• 
  29

  BIBLICAL PROOF OF THE TRINITY?

  by what_is_truth_7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  biblical proof of the trinity

  colossians 2:17

  beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to christ.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  what_is_truth_7

  About this God all powerful and all loving theory : I've done this in school. Most stupid thought process ever. You can't characterise God with 3 qualities (loving,powerful,knowing) and try work him out. He is so much bigger.

  He is also Just..we can basically sum it up with this. He must punish sin.

  Why did he just not make us. This would imediately take away the free will he choose to give us. He is just and won't break his own boundaries he sets.

  We can not pass the blame...we all screw up..but he provides a solution of grace we dont deserve and we complain! Enjoy life and get right with God through Jesus's sacrafice for you and you will understand how wonderful his love and grace is now and one day in eternity u will fall at his feet in wonder.

  We are the screw ups not God..stop passing the blame.

  Btw...knowing something before it happens does not take away free will. Just means you can see persons choice

  On another note. I read about that pagan origin of Trinity and because of location or knowledge or something (can't remember) the early christians would not have known about it according to some encyclopedia...just a thought.
• 
  29

  BIBLICAL PROOF OF THE TRINITY?

  by what_is_truth_7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  biblical proof of the trinity

  colossians 2:17

  beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to christ.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  what_is_truth_7

  I know I will never fully understand or be able to explain God. However, I need to clarify this point specifically, because I need to know who to pray to. As it goes now, I only pray to God; approaching him in the name of his son. Anyway, here goes more:

  Also if it is true only then could Jesus have the power to save us completely from our sins. And it puts him in a whole new position...God! whoosh!

  Jesus was a fully practicing jew.

  I'm sorry about my last reply. Frankly I looked at it wrong and didn't research or think enough. Yes he was a practicing Jew. And was a perfect one at that.

  I can't give the scripture that Witnesses use to claim Jesus was the very first creation.... I've been out too long. Perhaps this is where someone else could step in and answer this one.

  I'm going to ask a friend tonight!

  Isaiah 48:13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth,
  And My ri ght hand has stretched out the heavens;
  When I call to them,
  They stand up together.

  Again it is contraversal for Jesus to be part of creation if he is not God (as part of the Trinity) as scripture reveals, for example shown in Isaiah above, that Gods hand created.

  Good question. This is something that was never satisfactorily answered to me by my study guides in the Witness faith. My only response to this is that I have only read this verse in english. I need to do further studying into hebrew and read the translation myself. There are many ways of understanding a word, and the ways it may be used in a sentence. I am not refuting this argument of yours, only stating my opinion. But this verse alone does not convince me that God=Jesus.

  Yes that would help. Until we get further help we should maybe focus on other scriptures then. Theres plenty. Look at gold_mornings post. BTW thanks very much for this gold_morning

  Please elaborate on the body, spirit, soul comment

  Umm my understanding has been body-physical, soul-personnality, spirit-link with God

  Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword,piercing even to the division of soul and spirit.............

  Speaks for itself. Can't find anymore at the minute

  And are you using this to show trinity in humans?

  I believe God evidences the trinity in alot of things. 3 dimensional world ? - family..mum, dad and children? And yes has been my way of looking at things that we consist of a trinity.

  How is the spirit different from the soul? Aren't they the same thing?

  I think to be without a relationship with God (not having Jesus as Saviour and Lord to fix relationship) means your spirit is dead (Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 shows Spirit returns to God). Thats what it means in scriptures when it takes about death..as well as physical it can be spiritual..and that is of which Jesus came to fix.

  Where as the soul lives forever (irrelivant of where it may dwell!) and is your personality I guess. Matthew 10:28 -

  im confused on this issue but and need to look into it more. Might be wrong. :S But I believe they are separte just not sure on the purpose.

  I guess I was trying to point out that many themes throughout the bible repeat themselves. The trinity issue would be unique, as its theme is not repeated in the bible. Indeed, the question of the trinity isn't raised until the new testament.

  Guess thats maybe because Jesus came as God only then and was reveal mostly then. I know wee clearly the Trinity theme in the bible irrespective of old beliefs and so I will base my believe on Gods complete revealation not man.

  If God is three, why did he only become three later in the history of the world.

  He didn't. He always was 3. God in Genesis 1:1 is a plural word. It has been since the beginning. It has always been. We all just bit thick! lol

  The Jews would have worshipped a biune God if this were the case; God and the Holy Spirit.

  Is it not possible they got it wrong..again..based on this new revealation!?..or maybe God was happy to be worshipped as God as he is that aswell as the trinity..Maybe it was not his time to reveal...more likely we messed up.

  To understand this point better, it is important to understand shekinah, the word for holy spirit in. It is refered to in a feminine term, and understood by Jews to be God's active power. They never worshipped it, though. No more than a man's hand is given credit for what he creates.

  My initial post covers how the Holy Spirit (he) is definetly a separate entity/person yet still in trinity. Cant refer to anything else as he correctly.

  And if Jesus was God, coming to earth, what would that have proved? The question raised by Satan was God's headship, and his right to rule over his own creation. Why would he have come to earth to die for us? We already know his perfection. A perfect human dying in place of our sins is a true equivalent. Not God dying for puny humans. What would that spectacle have been about? He doesn't need to prove anything to us. Why did Jesus call out to his father and beg his father to relieve his suffering if possible? God would have been talking to himself.

  I do not know what your understanding is here. But I believe Jesus came and was God and the reason being is he was the only one able to conquer death. He was what the sacrafices of lambs pointed to. He was the one who was going to do the real Jod. It pleased God to sacrafice Jesus bible says, yet it says he has no joy in the burnt offereings. They were pointers to Jesus. If you wish ask me for verse references. Jesus made solution to our problem of spiritual death and brocken relationships with God for good. We just have to accept it.

  You may have noticed I place a lot of weight with the beliefs of the Jews. It is the one religion I believe God gave to humankind. Unfortunately they failed to recognize the messiah when he came. (As was foretold.) Therefore, what they believe about God and his word, is what I believe. Jesus was a Jew. However I believe Jesus was the savior promised to his people. This is why I am a christian, not a jew. I respect the first covenent for what is was, but I place my faith in the promise brought about by Jesus.

  This is good. But base on Gods word. The bible shows how people have been failing him and messing up the whole way through. It is only thing we can trust.

  Your turn

  hard work ! hehe :p..fun! I really hope and pray you find the truth. Thanks for making me think its good for me
• 
  29

  BIBLICAL PROOF OF THE TRINITY?

  by what_is_truth_7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  biblical proof of the trinity

  colossians 2:17

  beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to christ.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  what_is_truth_7

  Im trusting you here that Jews don't believe in the Trinity, I never knew that and will have to look into it! But from this perspective -

  a perfect, fully practising jewish man would have suscribed to this belief

  This dosn't really sum up what he was. You will remember he caused alot of stir amoungst the Jews often offending them. He broke free from their traditions. He preached a new radical message, and completely was someone different from what they were expecting.

  He never subscribed to the belief. It was mans and open to error. The word has shown how what they believe is wrong as I have found out and shown above.

  why isn't it said more clearly, to help educate them?

  Well all I know is God works in mysterious ways as the Bible says and also we are not to criticise his actions as we learn in Job (if you want scripture reference to these thoughts, or any of mine please say). I can not answer for Gods actions, all I can do is search his Word for the truth.

  If one is to believe what the witnesses teach, then "us" refered to in Genesis is where Jehovah is speaking to Jesus, about creating man, together. With Jesus being the very first creation, the only one directly created by God, thus the "only begotten".

  What verse says the very first creation is Jesus? Can't answer really until I know, sorry.

  Isaiah 48:13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth,
  And My right hand has stretched out the heavens;
  When I call to them,
  They stand up together.

  Again it is contraversal for Jesus to be part of creation if he is not God (as part of the Trinity) as scripture reveals, for example shown in Isaiah above, that Gods hand created.

  I'm having a very hard time with accepting the trinity. It is so foreign to me. As a human I understand having many sides to my "personality"; but to say that Sara the x-ray tech, is Sara the wife (and see, they are the same being....) this is no comparison to the trinity. You're talking about bodified multiple personalities, with three seperate thought processes. We were created in god's image, and there is no basis for the trinity in the natural world.

  Colossians 2:17 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

  Don't let your thinking restrict God. Base your beliefs on his Word only.

  We all have a body, soul and spirit. I can find you verses to prove this if you wish. Which is a trinity! That personality example is no comparison. Thats not what it is. They are the same personality and I assume same thought process. They are jus manifesting themselves in different forms I guess.

  I've got to go sorry, but I'l be back to chat more. Sorry didn't get replying to you U Danny.
• 
  29

  BIBLICAL PROOF OF THE TRINITY?

  by what_is_truth_7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  biblical proof of the trinity

  colossians 2:17

  beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to christ.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  what_is_truth_7

  BIBLICAL PROOF OF THE TRINITY

  Colossians 2:17 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

  CREATION

  Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all [2] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

  This shows more than one person was involved from the beginning in the creation as God said ?us make?.

  Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

  He also refers in Genesis 3:22 to the creators as ?us?, again showing more than one creator.

  In fact the Hebrew word For ?God? used in Genesis 1 vs. 1 is plural. The scriptures can leave us in no doubt that all three of the trinity were involved in creation from the very beginning.

  Isaiah 48:13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth,
  And My right hand has stretched out the heavens;
  When I call to them,
  They stand up together.

  Here the creator (God) talks as a single person who created the world. His hands made it.

  Psalm 143:5 I remember the days of long ago;
  I meditate on all your works
  and consider what your hands have done.

  Here David speaks of his Lord and again it is another example where the creator is looked upon as one person. Of course Davids? Lord would be God.

  So if the bible clearly is saying God created the earth yet more than one person was involved in the creation, the only logical answer is the Holy Trinity of God. With the trinity it makes sense to refer to them as one person?as they all are God, and also three people as they are also separate persons.

  And so from the very beginning of Gods revealing of himself through his word we have evidence of the Holy Trinity.

  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  HOLY SPIRIT

  It is widely believed by many ?the Holy Spirit is not a person but rather Gods force/movement amongst us.? If this were true it would discredit the Trinity from being correct. This is not what the bible teaches:

  John 15:26 "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.?

  This makes clear that the Holy Spirit is a very definite, individual, entity. You do not refer to a force as he, only something with individual thought!

  Isaiah 48:16 Come near me and listen to this:
  "From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret;
  at the time it happens, I am there."
  And now the Sovereign LORD has sent me,
  with his Spirit.

  If the Lord (who is God) has a Spirit, and the Bible says the spirit is a person as shown above, then his spirit can only be God himself (appearing here as a separate being) like our spirit is us, and also a part of us (body, soul, spirit).

  Again this points towards God being a Holy Trinity and the Holy Spirit is part of it.

  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  JESUS

  What is he?

  • Gods? Son

  John 3:16 For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

  He was unique to us as this verse says he?s Gods only begotten Son. He is not like us (unique) as the gospels tell us that he became man, but he was (and is) sinless and pure.

  • Not man

  Because he was a sinless/perfect man this means he was not a man like us, who are born into a sinful nature:

  Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.

  He was God (part of the Holy Trinity)

  Titus 2:13 Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ

  This speaks for itself! He is God, and at that a great one!

  Colossians 2:9 For in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily

  Mark 10:18 So Jesus said to him, why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, God.

  If in Jesus dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily, it will include Gods goodness. If no one is good but God, and he contains his goodness (?dwells his fullness), he must be God. This is what Jesus was getting at when he spoke here.

  Colossians 2:10 also calls him the ?head of all principalities and powers?

  This must mean he is God, how could someone who isn?t God be the head of all principalities and powers? This is Gods position alone, so Jesus must be God as part of the trinity.

  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  OTHER SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE

  John 12: 44 Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.

  Again this points towards Jesus being God as no one can equal God as has been shown above. Jesus is telling those around him that the body they see is only the outward ?clothing? of his true (God) self.

  The only other alternative would be for Jesus to have been a blasphemer and a liar. Which we know is not true based on what God says about him and his reputation!

  Colossians 1: 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

  Again here in verse 15 no one could be the image of God without being him as no one is equal to God. We were told previously that God?s hands created the world, and here we are told Jesus created the world. This proves that Jesus IS GOD. Why would all things be created for Jesus if he isn?t God? Revelation 4:11 tells us ?for Gods pleasure all things were created.?

  Philippians 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,

  This again shows Jesus? position as God. The Old Testaments 10 commandments tell us to have no gods before God and not to bow down to idols, only to God. If Jesus isn?t God this would be controversial and a sin!

  H ope this clearly shows God exists as a trinity, which Jesus is and always has been a part of, even before the universe was created.

  If you want to discuss this or any other theological issues please e-mail us at: [email protected]. We are a group of Christians who want to glorify God, show people that God loves them, and how they can find the truth in the Bible. Thanks for reading.