BIBLICAL PROOF OF THE TRINITY?

by what_is_truth_7 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • what_is_truth_7
    what_is_truth_7

    BIBLICAL PROOF OF THE TRINITY

    Colossians 2:17 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

    CREATION

    Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all [2] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

    This shows more than one person was involved from the beginning in the creation as God said ?us make?.

    Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

    He also refers in Genesis 3:22 to the creators as ?us?, again showing more than one creator.

    In fact the Hebrew word For ?God? used in Genesis 1 vs. 1 is plural. The scriptures can leave us in no doubt that all three of the trinity were involved in creation from the very beginning.

    Isaiah 48:13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth,
    And My right hand has stretched out the heavens;
    When I call to them,
    They stand up together.

    Here the creator (God) talks as a single person who created the world. His hands made it.

    Psalm 143:5 I remember the days of long ago;
    I meditate on all your works
    and consider what your hands have done.

    Here David speaks of his Lord and again it is another example where the creator is looked upon as one person. Of course Davids? Lord would be God.

    So if the bible clearly is saying God created the earth yet more than one person was involved in the creation, the only logical answer is the Holy Trinity of God. With the trinity it makes sense to refer to them as one person?as they all are God, and also three people as they are also separate persons.

    And so from the very beginning of Gods revealing of himself through his word we have evidence of the Holy Trinity.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    HOLY SPIRIT

    It is widely believed by many ?the Holy Spirit is not a person but rather Gods force/movement amongst us.? If this were true it would discredit the Trinity from being correct. This is not what the bible teaches:

    John 15:26 "When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.?

    This makes clear that the Holy Spirit is a very definite, individual, entity. You do not refer to a force as he, only something with individual thought!

    Isaiah 48:16 Come near me and listen to this:
    "From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret;
    at the time it happens, I am there."
    And now the Sovereign LORD has sent me,
    with his Spirit.

    If the Lord (who is God) has a Spirit, and the Bible says the spirit is a person as shown above, then his spirit can only be God himself (appearing here as a separate being) like our spirit is us, and also a part of us (body, soul, spirit).

    Again this points towards God being a Holy Trinity and the Holy Spirit is part of it.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    JESUS

    What is he?

    • Gods? Son

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

    He was unique to us as this verse says he?s Gods only begotten Son. He is not like us (unique) as the gospels tell us that he became man, but he was (and is) sinless and pure.

    • Not man

    Because he was a sinless/perfect man this means he was not a man like us, who are born into a sinful nature:

    Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.

    He was God (part of the Holy Trinity)

    Titus 2:13 Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ

    This speaks for itself! He is God, and at that a great one!

    Colossians 2:9 For in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily

    Mark 10:18 So Jesus said to him, why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, God.

    If in Jesus dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily, it will include Gods goodness. If no one is good but God, and he contains his goodness (?dwells his fullness), he must be God. This is what Jesus was getting at when he spoke here.

    Colossians 2:10 also calls him the ?head of all principalities and powers?

    This must mean he is God, how could someone who isn?t God be the head of all principalities and powers? This is Gods position alone, so Jesus must be God as part of the trinity.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    OTHER SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE

    John 12: 44 Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.

    Again this points towards Jesus being God as no one can equal God as has been shown above. Jesus is telling those around him that the body they see is only the outward ?clothing? of his true (God) self.

    The only other alternative would be for Jesus to have been a blasphemer and a liar. Which we know is not true based on what God says about him and his reputation!

    Colossians 1: 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

    Again here in verse 15 no one could be the image of God without being him as no one is equal to God. We were told previously that God?s hands created the world, and here we are told Jesus created the world. This proves that Jesus IS GOD. Why would all things be created for Jesus if he isn?t God? Revelation 4:11 tells us ?for Gods pleasure all things were created.?

    Philippians 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,

    This again shows Jesus? position as God. The Old Testaments 10 commandments tell us to have no gods before God and not to bow down to idols, only to God. If Jesus isn?t God this would be controversial and a sin!

    H ope this clearly shows God exists as a trinity, which Jesus is and always has been a part of, even before the universe was created.

    If you want to discuss this or any other theological issues please e-mail us at: [email protected]. We are a group of Christians who want to glorify God, show people that God loves them, and how they can find the truth in the Bible. Thanks for reading.

  • Snapdragon
    Snapdragon

    Well Truth, thanks for this thread. This question about the trinity has been my biggest obstacle in my new search for God.

    So, here's a question thats been stumping me:

    Jesus was a jew. The jews believe that God is only one being, therefore Jesus, as a perfect, fully practising jewish man would have suscribed to this belief. If he was God, and this was so new a thought to the jews, why isn't it said more clearly, to help educate them? i.e. "I am God."

    If one is to believe what the witnesses teach, then "us" refered to in Genesis is where Jehovah is speaking to Jesus, about creating man, together. With Jesus being the very first creation, the only one directly created by God, thus the "only begotten".

    I'm having a very hard time with accepting the trinity. It is so foreign to me. As a human I understand having many sides to my "personality"; but to say that Sara the x-ray tech, is Sara the wife (and see, they are the same being....) this is no comparison to the trinity. You're talking about bodified multiple personalities, with three seperate thought processes. We were created in god's image, and there is no basis for the trinity in the natural world.

    I'm very confused.

    ~Snapdragon

  • Undaunted Danny
    Undaunted Danny

    Same here,,,i was a studious JW.I at one point in my life memorized over 2,000 scripts.We know the origin of the 3 in 1 godhead predates christianity and is pagan from the get-go.

    New advances in quantum theory allow for a pluarity of "muti-verse" as opposed to one "uni-verse".It's possible that God could exist in more than one dimension.This would allow for God to have an unlimited database.[Ref;Matthew 10:29] [John 1:1]

    Sheer speculation?Sure,but you can kick that ole trinity dogma can down the road forever.It will do nothing to sanitize the Watchtower's sexed up hype false 'profitcy$'....

  • galaxy7
    galaxy7

    I wonder what other religions dont believe in the trinity

  • Snapdragon
    Snapdragon

    Galaxy, I know the LDS (Mormons) don't. See, because I don't consider myself trinitarian, I was looking up other christian denominations. They are few. So I'm still stumped.

    ~A

  • what_is_truth_7
    what_is_truth_7

    Im trusting you here that Jews don't believe in the Trinity, I never knew that and will have to look into it! But from this perspective -

    a perfect, fully practising jewish man would have suscribed to this belief

    This dosn't really sum up what he was. You will remember he caused alot of stir amoungst the Jews often offending them. He broke free from their traditions. He preached a new radical message, and completely was someone different from what they were expecting.

    He never subscribed to the belief. It was mans and open to error. The word has shown how what they believe is wrong as I have found out and shown above.

    why isn't it said more clearly, to help educate them?

    Well all I know is God works in mysterious ways as the Bible says and also we are not to criticise his actions as we learn in Job (if you want scripture reference to these thoughts, or any of mine please say). I can not answer for Gods actions, all I can do is search his Word for the truth.

    If one is to believe what the witnesses teach, then "us" refered to in Genesis is where Jehovah is speaking to Jesus, about creating man, together. With Jesus being the very first creation, the only one directly created by God, thus the "only begotten".

    What verse says the very first creation is Jesus? Can't answer really until I know, sorry.

    Isaiah 48:13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth,
    And My right hand has stretched out the heavens;
    When I call to them,
    They stand up together.

    Again it is contraversal for Jesus to be part of creation if he is not God (as part of the Trinity) as scripture reveals, for example shown in Isaiah above, that Gods hand created.

    I'm having a very hard time with accepting the trinity. It is so foreign to me. As a human I understand having many sides to my "personality"; but to say that Sara the x-ray tech, is Sara the wife (and see, they are the same being....) this is no comparison to the trinity. You're talking about bodified multiple personalities, with three seperate thought processes. We were created in god's image, and there is no basis for the trinity in the natural world.

    Colossians 2:17 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

    Don't let your thinking restrict God. Base your beliefs on his Word only.

    We all have a body, soul and spirit. I can find you verses to prove this if you wish. Which is a trinity! That personality example is no comparison. Thats not what it is. They are the same personality and I assume same thought process. They are jus manifesting themselves in different forms I guess.

    I've got to go sorry, but I'l be back to chat more. Sorry didn't get replying to you U Danny.

  • DevonMcBride
    DevonMcBride

    Hello and welcome What Is Truth.

    Here are two web sites that explain why Jews don't believe Jesus is God

    http://www.aish.com/spirituality/philosophy/Why_Dont_Jews_Believe_In_Jesus$.asp

    www.jdstone.org

  • Snapdragon
    Snapdragon

    Oh goody, someone to actually try to help me with this one. Everyone else says "oh, the trinity is a holy mystery". Blah, blah blah.

    I know I will never fully understand or be able to explain God. However, I need to clarify this point specifically, because I need to know who to pray to. As it goes now, I only pray to God; approaching him in the name of his son. Anyway, here goes more:

    Jesus was a fully practicing jew. He followed the commandments, as he had been raised. What he did to cause a stir amoungst the heads of the jewish faith, was to not follow what they had laid out for jews to do. Judaism itself is not a man made religion. It was given to them, by God. Where they went astray was that they failed to recognize the second covenent in Jesus.

    Again, I realize, I can never fully understand God. But in this day and age, when miracles are not abundant such as in Abraham's time, I need more sound reasoning than "you must do it/believe it on faith alone." That is what people say when they're at a loss for words. I would not sacrifice my child, because the head of a church (even one I believed to be truly from God) gave me the reasons given to Abraham.

    If one is to believe what the witnesses teach, then "us" refered to in Genesis is where Jehovah is speaking to Jesus, about creating man, together. With Jesus being the very first creation, the only one directly created by God, thus the "only begotten".

    What verse says the very first creation is Jesus? Can't answer really until I know, sorry.

    I can't give the scripture that Witnesses use to claim Jesus was the very first creation.... I've been out too long. Perhaps this is where someone else could step in and answer this one.

    Isaiah 48:13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth,
    And My ri
    ght hand has stretched out the heavens;
    When I call to them,
    They stand up together.

    Again it is contraversal for Jesus to be part of creation if he is not God (as part of the Trinity) as scripture reveals, for example shown in Isaiah above, that Gods hand created.

    Good question. This is something that was never satisfactorily answered to me by my study guides in the Witness faith. My only response to this is that I have only read this verse in english. I need to do further studying into hebrew and read the translation myself. There are many ways of understanding a word, and the ways it may be used in a sentence. I am not refuting this argument of yours, only stating my opinion. But this verse alone does not convince me that God=Jesus.

    We all have a body, soul and spirit. I can find you verses to prove this if you wish. Which is a trinity!

    Please elaborate on the body, spirit, soul comment. How is the spirit different from the soul? Aren't they the same thing? And are you using this to show trinity in humans? I guess I was trying to point out that many themes throughout the bible repeat themselves. The trinity issue would be unique, as its theme is not repeated in the bible. Indeed, the question of the trinity isn't raised until the new testament. If God is three, why did he only become three later in the history of the world. The Jews would have worshipped a biune God if this were the case; God and the Holy Spirit. To understand this point better, it is important to understand shekinah, the word for holy spirit in. It is refered to in a feminine term, and understood by Jews to be God's active power. They never worshipped it, though. No more than a man's hand is given credit for what he creates.

    And if Jesus was God, coming to earth, what would that have proved? The question raised by Satan was God's headship, and his right to rule over his own creation. Why would he have come to earth to die for us? We already know his perfection. A perfect human dying in place of our sins is a true equivalent. Not God dying for puny humans. What would that spectacle have been about? He doesn't need to prove anything to us. Why did Jesus call out to his father and beg his father to relieve his suffering if possible? God would have been talking to himself.

    And I don't know much about Messiah prophesies, but to my knowledge they only ever expressed his coming in "human" terms. God, in the flesh or not, is God. He would never have been human.

    You may have noticed I place a lot of weight with the beliefs of the Jews. It is the one religion I believe God gave to humankind. Unfortunately they failed to recognize the messiah when he came. (As was foretold.) Therefore, what they believe about God and his word, is what I believe. Jesus was a Jew. However I believe Jesus was the savior promised to his people. This is why I am a christian, not a jew. I respect the first covenent for what is was, but I place my faith in the promise brought about by Jesus.

    Your turn,

    ~A

  • Snapdragon
    Snapdragon

    Oh yah, welcome to the forum. I didn't realize that was your first post. Are you evangelical?

    ~Snapdragon

  • Crazy151drinker
    Crazy151drinker

    Being that we know little of Jesus's early life its hard to say what he did or did not do.

    Snap,

    If God is all knowing, the Alpha and the Omega, then we can accept that He knows everything that is going to happen.

    If God is all powerfull, being that He created the Universe, then we can accept that He can do anything.

    So if God knows everything and can do anything- Why did he not stop the Original Sin?

    He knew what was going to happen- why not prevent it?

    If he KNEW what was going to happen BEFORE it happened then obviously it is not free will. What 'Free' Choice do you have if I already KNOW what youre going to do? And If I KNOW what youre going to do, why wouldnt I prevent it if the outcome was bad?

    God could have easily prevented Satans attempted revolt.

    God could have easliy prevent the Origianl Sin.

    If God has done so, there would have been no need for Jesus's Ultimate Sacrafice.

    If I already know what Answer you are going to give am I really giving you a Test?

    Just random thoughts of Madness. I realize that people dread the thought of not having Free Will because that would mean that God Knowingly allowed all the suffering in the World and continues to do so.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit