Pole

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Posts by Pole

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  43

  Russian school children hostage ends

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  such sad and tragic events for young kids to be caught up in.. which parents dropping their kids off for school would imagine that they would never be seen alive again.

  perhaps final proof that "a hard-line approach" does not work.

  all it does is escalate the violence and inhumanity.

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  Pole

  it isn't just religious, but they are clearly using religious ties to get assistance in thier guerilla warfare.
• 
  43

  Russian school children hostage ends

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  such sad and tragic events for young kids to be caught up in.. which parents dropping their kids off for school would imagine that they would never be seen alive again.

  perhaps final proof that "a hard-line approach" does not work.

  all it does is escalate the violence and inhumanity.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Pole

  it isn't just religious, but they are clearly using religious ties to get assistance in thier guerilla warfare.

  Valis,

  1) If Chechnyans were atheist, would they be fighting now for freedom (using non-religious ties), and resorting to cruel terrorism as a result of long frustration? Perhaps not as cruel as it is now, but ETA style non-religious terrorism for instance.

  2) If you were to solve this problem, would you rather try to destroy the Muslim society with its religious dimensions as the main reason for the problem? Or would you try to negotiate a fair political solution (some form of satisfactory independence, etc.)?
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  21

  Did Jesus and Peter miss something in the story of Flood?

  by Pole in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  yet another flood question.

  jesus and peter used the story of flood to illustrate how god will destroy hundreds of millions of evil people again.

  (let's assume they really said/wrote the things recorded in 2 peter 2:5 and mathew 24:38).. however, just after the flood god promised: .

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  Pole

  Thanks for your comments everyone.

  Blondie,

  I always understood that statement to mean that God would not bring to ruin the plants, animals, insects, because of humans. As a JW, I always saw God destroying only the bad people without hurting the rest of life on earth.

  Well, that was my JW view anyway

  I just assumed "all flesh" may have meant the flesh of the wicked humans too. Like the flesh of those who didn't know why they got killed, the children, or the mentally ill. But apparently all flesh meant that God only felt sorry about his favourite insects and not such humans.

  Anyway your JW answer would solve my question in a JW fashion.

  Pole
• 
  43

  Russian school children hostage ends

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  such sad and tragic events for young kids to be caught up in.. which parents dropping their kids off for school would imagine that they would never be seen alive again.

  perhaps final proof that "a hard-line approach" does not work.

  all it does is escalate the violence and inhumanity.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Pole

  Pole: Show how any type of example of how atheist's have turned into suicidal terrorists?

  First, show me a country where atheists constitute the majority. This country has to be opressed by another country for several years, the poor atheists are killed off in thousands locked in refugee camps and their homes are destroyed.
  

  The longer a country has been in trouble, the more religious or nationalist its people get. But this doesn't mean that religion is the source of the trouble. It may be used to fuel and sanctify the hatred, but its not the reason by itself.

  If Jews had created their state on a Pacific Islands, the Palestinians would never send suicide bombers there for purely religious reasons. In this respect, what you've described as modern religious conflicts are very different from the medieval Crusades.

  Here's an example:

  Religion is used and sometimes even made-up or adjusted to achieve political aims. The kamikaze pilots are one example of such an ad hoc ideology. Initially they just swore a llegiance to Emperor and country - something that many atheists would do. With time they were cynically indoctrinated to believe that the divine wind of Kamikaze "would bring them deliverance at the darkest hour, just as it had in the 13th Century". The Emperor became a god worth dying for. By this point the Japanese military had a fundementalist fanatic religion at their disposal, although before the war the Japanese soldiers hadn't been religious in any fundamentalist sense. The decision to use this ideology was a purely cynical one:

  " By 1945 it was apparent that Japan was losing the War in the Pacific. As a last ditch effort to turn around their flagging fortunes, the Japanese revived the name Kamikaze and applied it to the suicide missions of their air force. Japanese Vice Admiral Takashiro Ohnishi had noted that the most effective way to inflict damage to warships of the allies was to crash planes into them. He pointed out that one accidental crash could do more damage than ten planes firing machine guns. It was decided that pilots would henceforth purposely crash their planes, which were to be loaded with half a ton of explosives, into enemy warships. "

  But you could never say that these Japanese pilots became suicide bombers and that Japan joined the WWII for religious reasons!!!

  The original reasons were political and military ones.

  With time the Japanese became much disappointed with this idea.

  "With the passing of time, however, some of those who survived the Kamikaze raids have become criticial of the policy. Saburo Sakai, a former Imperial Navy Ace, says: Kamikaze is a surprise attack, according to our ancient war tactics. Surprise attacks will be successful the first time, maybe two or three times. But what fool would continue the same attacks for ten months? Emperor Hirohito must have realised it. He should have said Stop."

  Now, was Hirohito a religious fanatic? No, as a God he was just as cynical as Stalin. Sadly enough many Kamikaze pilots did complete their missions. Did Hirohito had his country join the war for religious reasons?

  If we want to stay on topic the real question is this:

  If Chechnya was 100% atheist, would there be no terrorism in the south of the Russian Federation today? We don't know for sure if there would be suicide bombers, because we haven't had a 100% atheist country under lengthy oppression in history, but I'm quite sure some extreme ideology would be invented, either a religious or political one. Suicide bombers weren't my point anyway. As for other forms of terrorism there have been examples of purely political terrorism, eg. the Basque ETA.

  I consider myself atheist/agnostic. BUt I'm not sure how easy it would be to indoctrinate me if I was in the kind situation that a lot of Chechnyans have been experiencing for years. Perhaps that's because I'm Polish and Poland has suffered occupation from 3 different powers over the last 350 years.

  And by the way, some people say the biggest act of terrorism in the known history is Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and not the Kamikaze pilots.

  Anyway, in both cases religion was not the real reason.

  Pole
• 
  43

  Russian school children hostage ends

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  such sad and tragic events for young kids to be caught up in.. which parents dropping their kids off for school would imagine that they would never be seen alive again.

  perhaps final proof that "a hard-line approach" does not work.

  all it does is escalate the violence and inhumanity.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Pole

  Simon,

  Most people's want some form of self-rule and have it. Even the United States is just that - a federal collection of States that rule themselves but have agreed some common rules & laws.

  That's exactly my point.

  Edited to add: What's more, if an atheist had his children killed and his wife raped and killed just because he fought for the independence of his country, then he might turn into a terrorist monster as evil as those religious fanatics.
• 
  43

  Russian school children hostage ends

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  such sad and tragic events for young kids to be caught up in.. which parents dropping their kids off for school would imagine that they would never be seen alive again.

  perhaps final proof that "a hard-line approach" does not work.

  all it does is escalate the violence and inhumanity.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Pole

  Sorry DaCheech: I think you are ignorant and what is worse you have a simplistic anti-relligious agenda.

  How's that for an argument?

  No need to fight over this though.

  Nationalism is as much an evil as religiousness (mine is better than yours attitute) or (GOD will destroy you, not mine) or (w'ere the chosen ones) etc

  Please show me my naivety and explain: How does this apply to the situation in the forme Cacausian Soviet Union republics?
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  24

  2370-2180 population increase from10? to 8,000

  by badboy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  .

  it said in one wt publication(studies inthe scriptures?

  )that the human population increased from approxiatemly 10 people to 8,000 people in just 190 years.. is that feastible?

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  Pole

  Yep. The only question is: is there any point in coming up with "rational explanations of miracles"?

  Interesting, now that you've brought it up. If we depend on your interpretation of this wording, then God used the same population growth kind of a trick at other occasions, although to a lesser extent:

  Abraham the second time out of the heavens 16

  and to say: ??By myself I do swear,? is the utterance of Jehovah, ?that by reason of the fact that you have done this thing and you have not withheld your son, your only one, 17 I shall surely bless you and I shall surely multiply your seed like the stars of the heavens and like the grains of sand that are on the seashore; and your seed will take possession of the gate of his enemies.
• 
  43

  Russian school children hostage ends

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  such sad and tragic events for young kids to be caught up in.. which parents dropping their kids off for school would imagine that they would never be seen alive again.

  perhaps final proof that "a hard-line approach" does not work.

  all it does is escalate the violence and inhumanity.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Pole

  Was not Ireland a religious issue?

  I don't know that much about this conflict, but I guess it was as religious as political.
  

  Was not Yugoslavia a religious issue?

  Not really.
  

  Is not the Jewish/Palestinian a religious issue?

  Not really.
  

  At the root of the Russian problem you have religion. The fact is that these regions are diverse thus thinking that they should not be ruled by Russians in which are now viewed as "Orthodox" (look at the JW ban)

  Not true at all.

  I guess you believe too much in the simple explanations provided by some stupid Western journalists. Don't confuse the means with the ends. There are 2 real issues in all of the above conflicts:

  1) Land

  2) Independence EDITED: (In terms of language, national identity, traditions and religion)
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  29

  Great Teacher Book - What's Wrong With This Picture?

  by ezekiel3 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  with all the discussion about the noah's flood, i thought you might want to dissect this picture:

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  Pole

  3 jewish guys married to a black chick, an asian, and a blond. They must have met them at law school or something. Hey so that explains it!

  Jewish? You mean proto-Jewish? Anyway, if God was able to get polar bears and toucans to come to the Ark, he had no problem arranging a Japanese girl from the now underwater city off the coast of Japan. After all God seems to be careful about racial quotas.

  For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial, but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him.
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  51

  Another example of WTS anthropology - The Flood and racial differences

  by Pole in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here is another paradox resulting from the wts stand on the flood:

  1. jws seriously believe in 2370 bc as the date of the flood

  2. they also believe that by the 1st century ad racial differences had been well developed (i mean differences in the outward appearance of course, and not their early racist views for instance).

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  Pole

  XQsThaiPoes, Thanks for this insight. Makes a lot of sense if you take things at face value. WHich is basically what we should do when GOd's speaking, innit? I was just too apologetic about God's motivations. :)