Posts by Pole

40

You DON'T Have To Listen To The Elders If They Say They Want To Meet ....

by minimus in

jw
friends

everyone that is in the process of leaving dreads the thought of having the elders approach them, call them, etc.

the fact is----just because they say they want to meet with you or just because 2 elders stop by to visit you----you don't have to deal with them at all.

simply tell them you won't meet with them, you won't talk to them.

Pole

A person must realize that if they choose to go to these things they are telling themselves that even tho I do not agree with the WTBS claptrap I still want to remain approved to stay in the org.which is why I am here.

This is precisely why I feel I'm never going to meet them at this stage. (I'm never going to go to a meeting either). Meeting them is part of their game, it's their fake guns which used to inspire fear in me before I fully understood the truth about "the truth". Like JH, I used to be conditioned to fear meetings with elders and I used to respect their "authority".

Actually I think fading (if it doesnt cost you too much emotionally) and refusing to meet elders is one of the very few cases that elders can't handle very well in a strict and systematic way. I gives them trouble, because they never know if you're an apostate already or just "a spiritually weak" but faithful sheep.

Pole

35

Getting fed up with fading

by Pole in

ok, so here is my story in put a nutshell: .

1. i first had "nagging doubts" about the borg some three years ago (after 6 years of being a faithful witness).

2. i stopped avoiding "apostate" internet sites some 1.5 years ago, which really helped me confirm my doubts.

Pole

Gary, Guest 77

I understand your reasons for handling the situation the way you did. However I think my family situation was slightly different. Think of this analogy: you meet a really nice girl at your workplace and you think she's the one. There are several way of trying to start a relationship with her. For instance, you could come up to her and shout in her face: "Hey, I really like your body, and from what you say, I gather you're quite smart too. Do you want to be with me for the rest of your life?". Or you could be more subtle and spend some time playing love games befor you finally make your proposition. Both ways could (theoretically) work. Both could hypothetically lead you to exactly the same result (marriage, etc.). However it's all about calculating risks and potential costs.

I have been playing the fading game, because I've been very successful at it (my wife is joined me on my way out, and my mother understands my reasons after I gradually explained them to her). I don't even know how I would have reacted if I had been told the truth about the truth in its entirety a few years ago.

So that was how I decided to handle the risk of being misunderstood.

I am now getting tired with fading (some 7 months in my case), although I'm hardly paying any price other than having to tell the elders I don't want to meet them on one occasion. Still, this is a sort of emotional cost and the way I'm handling it is this: I simply don't bother to pretend any more (pretending is a big part of fading). I'm never going to go to a meeting again and I'm never going to meet the elders again. Am I still a Jehovah's Witness? If someone asks me, I'll say no. If they decide to df me for refusing to meet them - fine - it will be real fun to be df-ed for not meeting the elders. Probably it will allow me to stay in touch with a few JWs I know who might want to learn something about the WTS. If it costs me more than I am willing to pay, I simply won't bother to do it.

Anyway, I'm out'n' free. My beard is growing, I got a few heavy metal records the other day, I am going to vote in the next election, and I use swear words when I feel like it!!! Just about all the things I missed when being a JW.

I guess if the elders call me again when I have a bad day and ask me to meet them, I'll tell them it's all bs.

I have been fading for 7 months. Now I'm tired of it. I'll wait for the events to unfold because it doesn't cost me anything at this stage. Meanwhile I'll live my life the way I want. Seems like I'm repeating myself, so I'd better stop now. :)))

Cheers,

Pole

68

There is NO annual service report in the Janaury 1st WT

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

well, i have confirmed rumors that have gone around about there being no annual service report for the january 1st, 2005 issue.. .

it seems, for reasons unknown, that the watchtower has ended another decades long tradition.

in the second study article for the january 1st, 2005 watchtower, entitled, "trained to give a thorough witness," paragraph 24 reads: .

Pole

seattleniceguy,

Suddenly that 1.2 billion hours doesn't seem so impressive anymore!

What will be real fun to see is when they have 0 percent growth with 1.2 billion hours in field service. I think at that stage they will decide not to include the field service hours statistics.

AlanF,

I'm still convinced that the Internet is the JW's biggest bugaboo. There's no way that JWs exposed to the massive amount of information available can avoid being exposed to plenty of stuff -- most of it not even specifically related to JWs -- to make them sit up and think.

This applies to non-English speaking countries as well. I am a point in case (+ several young witnesses I know). I had had serious doubts before I went to the internet. However it was the great wealth of simple, direct, irrefutable information about the internal workings of the WTS that helped me make the final decision. My last 5 service reports were fake. I and my wife have not reported service time for the last two months and we're not going to report/go to meetings again.

This will only have some bearing on the 2005 service report, though .

Pole

35

Getting fed up with fading

by Pole in

ok, so here is my story in put a nutshell: .

1. i first had "nagging doubts" about the borg some three years ago (after 6 years of being a faithful witness).

2. i stopped avoiding "apostate" internet sites some 1.5 years ago, which really helped me confirm my doubts.

Pole

Thanks for your comments everyone.

RandomTask:

Yes, its about the time that you realize that the cage they had you in was only an illusion, that their power over you was imaginary and whatever "reprecussions" they would dole out to get you to do what they wanted were meaningless. When I ceased to care about what they did or thought then they ceased to have any power over me.

Exactly. When I now see any of the elders I almost feel embarrassed for them, because they can't understand I don't recognize their WTS-given "authority" and there's nothing I can do to get this message across to them - even when I'm rude they just pretend nothing happened and call me a week later to remind me about the service report

iiz2cool,

As for the field service report?, you can always tell them you "make your sacrifice to God in secret", and he will "reward you in secret". What's the point in "blowing your trumpet ahead of you" as the pharises did?

hehe. My beard makes any excuses incredible, though So I guess I'll simply be honest in this particular respect.

kwintestal,

I got tired of it quite quickly. The way I see it, what can they do? The majority of my family now aren't JW's, and I have no long term ties to any JW's around here.

I too arranged things quite nicely with the few JW members of my family that I care about.

evergreen,

It was in this time i discovered this site and others and read crisis of conscience which i would never have done if i had been at the meetings and still had my fire and brimstone attitude.But even then i decided to go back and give it a bash and put everything to the back of my mind. But i simply cant; everything i have read about the watchtower just tells me that this is not the truth even though i truly believe that the rank and file are sincere people just as i was in my faith.

This site has had a therapeutic effect on me as well. I mean when you've read dozens of similar experiences of people from all around the world, you become 100% convinced that no sentiment should hold you back on your way out of the WT land.

But i have now made up my mind that this is really it ; i am just going to fade away ,try and meet some new friends and get on with my life. I am going to tell my wife any day now my position, the real reason . Also i will get round to telling my mother who is a complete zealot that i am not going back. With the elders i will just tell them that i dont feel like going as the moment or something to that effect. Yes my decision is to fade away and over the years people will get used to it, wether they like it or not. ( a lesser of 3 evils in their eyes)

I hope sooner or later you will get just as bored and sick with the JW doctrines being imposed on yourself that it will made your fading process as fun as possible (despite family problems).

I'm another one out of the borg. Even if I die tomorrow, I won't die a slave to WTS. What a relief!

Pole

35

Getting fed up with fading

by Pole in

ok, so here is my story in put a nutshell: .

1. i first had "nagging doubts" about the borg some three years ago (after 6 years of being a faithful witness).

2. i stopped avoiding "apostate" internet sites some 1.5 years ago, which really helped me confirm my doubts.

Pole

Ok, so here is my story in put a nutshell:

1. I first had "nagging doubts" about the borg some three years ago (after 6 years of being a faithful witness).

2. I stopped avoiding "apostate" internet sites some 1.5 years ago, which really helped me confirm my doubts.

3. I stepped down from being a MS in May this year (can't even remember when exactly)

4. I started fading a few months ago (I haven't gone to a single meeting for 4 months now, and I'm never going to do it again).

5. I stopped reporting service hours 3 months ago (the last 5 months I reported fake hours anyway).

6. I got a phone call from an elder some 3 weeks ago. He said he'd like to meet me and my wife to talk about our "spiritual problems". I said I didn't have any. He insisted on meeting me. I said there was absolutely nothing I wanted to discuss with them. He asked if they could meet me wife (also a witness doing the fading thing). I said I didn't like the idea of him and another guy meeting my wife in private (my wife doesn't want to meet them anyway). He was at a loss for words. He asked me again if I could consider meeting the elders. I said I knew he had honest intentions by quite simply I don't want to meet them only to tell them lies and excuses as I didn't want to tell them about my real problems at this stage either.

Now guess what. The other day my book study overseer (or whatever you call them in English) who knew about my situation called me to ask if I had a service report for him. I could guess from the tone of his voice that he really hated having to call me but I reckon it has something to do with the circuit overseer visit and the congregation statistics.

The CO we currently have is really bent on statistics and publisher files. For example my wife and I had a very difficult family situation about a year ago (father-in-law had been in a coma for 8 months before he died). The CO simply acknowledged the fact as reported by the elders. He didn't advise them to visit us. Not that we really needed their visit, but it is supposed to be a "love-driven" christian congregation, so he could have done better. During the next visit though, the CO told two elders to visit me because he noticed that I had only reported 1 return visit in 6 months. Nice display of christian love, isn't it? Well, at least it helped my wife understand that individual people don't count in this organization.

Anyway, I consider myself a successful fader. I helped my wife (although she would have joined me anyway, she said she preferred it that way). I'm an atheist/agnostic, she still believes in God and we are in perefect agreement over those issues. I also explained my reasons for leaving to my mother (also a JW), and she said she understood. She never shunned dfed witnesses anyway and she disagrees with the blood doctrine, so it wasn't so tough to inform her either.

Anyway, my question is: for those of you who left the borg gradually, was there a time when you grew really tired with fading and simply didn't care to pretend anything anymore? Was there a time when you felt the Watchtower aparatchicks (local elders) were simply a joke, even if they were 100% honest about their duties? To me they are like police officers with plastic guns.

I guess I'm at this point now. And I have evidence for it! Last week I started growing a beard!!! I don't know about other countries, but here a dub who hasn't been to a meeting for a few months, talks back to the elders and who's started growing a beard is viewed as a mad apostate :). Whoa!!! Yep. I think my mental healing has been almost completed now.

Pole of the "beginning to resemble his avatar class"

26

Fading, but I dont think I can do it

by vitty in

jw
friends

ive been fading for about 7 months now, but i dont know if i can carry it off.. i was really upset by a family member, had a couple of drinks then phoned my sister, whoes not a jw, ( for a bit of sympathy) but then i revealed too much information about my fading.

the thing is shes going on holiday with my other sister who is a jw, now im scared she might tell her.

she wouldnt do it on pupose.. i feel im in quick sand, drowning, i would love to tell the way i really feel, but cant take the shunning.will this ever end?

Pole

As others have already pointed out, fading is all about making a smooth a transition from one state to another. Which means it doesn't last forever.

I guess at some point most people simply get tired with fading and they don't care that much anymore. Even if your family is involved - there are situations when you have poor relationships with your family members for completely different reasons and you have to live a happy life anyway.

I consider myself a successful fader. It worked for me. Largely thanks to the gradual character of my escape from the Watchtower, my wife joined me on my way out and my mother fully understands my reasons.

Good luck!

Pole

31

Where We Are in the Stream of Time

by Duncan in

jw
friends

i had another visit from witnesses at my door on saturday, only the second time in the four years we?ve lived here.

a very nice young girl, it was, offering me the ?keep on the watch?

magazine.. i let her make her pitch, which was mostly all about how terrible the world was today, and then just replied with enough interest for her to keep going, without giving anything away.

Pole

Slightly off-topic, but what I realized when reading the topic of this thread is that the expression "the stream of time" got translated into Polish (and some other languages) word by word by branch office translators. It must be one of those international Dub idioms.

18

Religion and Spirituality

by Markfromcali in

these days you hear people say "i consider myself spiritual, but not religious" more and more.

while i understand where that's coming from, what does it actually mean?

i can see where someone can be spiritual without being religious, just as we can see religious people not being spiritual, but what do each of those look like?

Pole

Religion stems from spirituality.

Any relligion (religious system) could be defined as an attempt to provide an apparently meaningful and verifiable explanation of man's spirituality.

Such an explanation usually comes in the form of words, gestures, symbols and rituals. Unfortunatelly all such attempts to formalize spirituality are doomed to failure.

Man's spirituality must be considered seriously. A man's religion must not be if we are to stay out of all sorts of trouble.

Pole

39

Service Year Report of Jehovah?s Witnesses Worldwide

by frogit in

found this in the latest wt.

page 24 wt january 1st 2005.

?starting this year, the service year report of jehovah?s witnesses worldwide will not appear in the january 1 issue of the watchtower.

Pole

Elsewhere,

If they are as computer savvy as they claim, why can't they just run a quick SQL query to tally up all the numbers?

Here is one for the total number of hours:

SELECT
SUM(publisher.number_of_hours)
FROM
publisher
WHERE
publisher.status != inactive
AND publisher.status != irregular
ORDER BY
publisher.country DESC
;

17

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-14-04 WT Study Highlights

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the 11-14-04 wt study (october 1, 2004) highlights

review comments

tender affection and love.

Pole

Good analysis Blondie. Since I stopped going to meetings altogether (only a few months ago), your threads on WT study are just about the only access I have to the spiritual food provided by the unwise slave.

I fully understand how depressing it must be for you to go through this stuff every week. :))