You guys crack me up!
Posts by Terry
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61THE IMPONDERABLES TOPIC (Enter at your own risk)
by Terry ini suggest taking this slowly .
.. consider the difference between taking a poll about an upcoming election and the actual vote itself on the day of the election.. the information gathered about what the vote will be is provisional.
the vote on the day of the election is actual and official.. it is the one that counts.. now, carefully ask yourself what the specific difference--if any--there is between the poll information and the election result as an identical knowledge of.
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DEMONS: the torment I suffered
by Terry inwhen i was in my teens i wanted a room of my own, but i lived with my grandparents whose house was very small.. my uncle had been living in a little one room bed-sitter way out in the backyard.
he married and moved away and i moved in.. it was quite isolated and the ceiling was six feet from the floor.
unfortunately, the top of my head was four inches higher than that!
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Terry
In my congregation in Fort Worth, our Assitant Overseer (as they were then denominated) was a good-ole-boy named Wally Coulter.
He told a story about going to a woman's door and presenting her with the sermon du jour only to have her curse him out and
order him off her property!
According to Wally, "As I was about to shake the dust off my feet as I turned and walked past her back fence, I happened to glance
in the backyard where I saw something that scared the bejeebers out of me! There was a goat shaped demon with a collar around its neck sitting in the middle of the backyard in a rocking chair! I got outta there as fast as I could praying to Jehovah!"
We all repeated that story, of course.
I sure as hell don't know what it means--but--that's the level of wacky word-of-mouth urban fear-mongering JW's at all levels repeated.
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A Brief History of Racism in Watchtower Publications
by cedars ini've just completed a lengthy article on the history of racism in the society's publications.
many people (including myself, until recently) aren't aware that the society's early publications were brimming with racist rhetoric, and this only calmed down as the public mood towards racism changed, most notably with the civil rights movement in the 50s/60s.. a few "headliners" from the article are:.
russell segregated blacks from whites for viewings of the photodramarussell believed that the skin of a black man would turn white during the millennial kingdomunder russell, the society's publications portrayed the black races as "degraded" and the white race as "superior"rutherford viewed the blacks as a "race of servants", and spoke of "sobering the southern negro" in an article against prohibitionunder rutherford, the golden age slammed uncle tom's cabin (a work that helped end slavery) as being "the work of satan"; the same article branded spaniards a "backwards race"rutherford accused "jewish business men" of "oppressing the peoples of many nations"in 1929 the golden age (acknowledged by the society as essentially the same magazine as the modern awake!
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Terry
At any point in time, the culture of each and every social group is on a path from ignorance toward enlightenment and wisdom.
IDEALLY this is a steady continuum. We all know from experience it seldom works this way.
Nobody has ever been free of ignorant prejudice of "the other."
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If you read Mark Twain's classics you will find language quite disrespectable--BY TODAY'S MEASURE.
However, we cannot IMPOSE today on yesterday and imagine we are doing history a service!
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With the above in mind--let's STOP THE MUSIC!
As the resident old man among you I am the de facto curmudgeon which means my duty is to keep my
historical knowledge (and or interpretation) alive as long as I can.
If you will bear with me for just a second. . .
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When I was a boy in the 1950's, it was AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT WORLD.
I do not exaggerate.
Old views people held and what behaviors they exhibited are--BY TODAY'S MEASURE--quite repugnant.
Please be mindful I'm not excusing anything or anybody--but those "good old days" were NORMAL for them.
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What is important is this:
Through good intention, activism, sacrifice, persuasion, kindness, empathy, and heartfelt desire for PROGRESS---things do change.
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I had asthma as a boy. Terrible choking fits and this was before there were inhalers or steroids.
My parents--the entire household--smoked cigarettes and cigars indoors, in the car--everywhere.
NOW HERE THIS: everybody smoked in elevators, airplanes, movie theaters, restaurants . . . and I was in tortured agony!
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So what?
So a therapist listened to me rant about how badly my family treated me and she nodded and then asked:
'ARE YOU SAYING THIS WAS DONE DELIBERATELY TO HURT YOU?'
I had to answer, "No."
The therapist then said, "Context is everything. Sometimes people who hurt you are DOING THE BEST THEY CAN according to their view of NORMAL."
As we now know--public smoking has been all but completely stamped out in my lifetime! This is human progress. I rejoice!
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I lived in a white neighborhood which suddenly experienced 'white flight' in the civil rights era. I was about thirteen. Suddenly, I lived in an all black community. My best friend was the black kind across the street.
My grandmother and mother were from New Orleans and had no discernable prejudice at all toward "colored folk."
When the kids at my all white school saw me playing with a "colored boy," I was called "NI**ER LOVER!"
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The purpose of this---call it a rant if you like--is to INFORM rather than lecture.
Old days bygone are IGNORANT DAYS bygone.
People did what their parents and grandparents said was "okay."
IF WE MATURE WE FIND A BETTER WAY.
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CONCLUSION:
The Watchtower Society was no better or worse, but perhaps a lot more progressive about minority inclusion by the time I
attended Kingdom Halls. There were LAWS ON THE BOOKS in many states (in the south) against MIXING races. It was seen
as prudent to exercise awareness of your local situation.
ASSEMBLIES always included people of color as far back as I go.
In the 60's, black brothers and sisters were welcomed. None of us thought anything of it that I recall.
I'M NOT EXCUSING idiots who treated minorities badly. All I'm doing is asking you to put the pitchforks down and the torches
and think before you assume the level of hatred which was present among the KLU KLUX KLAN, when you extrapolate
today's social "norms" backward in time.
I REPEAT: We cannot IMPOSE today on yesterday and imagine we are doing history a service!
END OF SERMON.
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Origin of Black Skin - JW.org Noah Movie
by Bloody Hotdogs! ini've never seen this discussed here, so thought i'd bring it up:.
as far as i can figure, jehovah's witnesses no longer teach that black skin is the result of a curse from god.
instead, they seem to teach that canaan was already dark skinned when his father, ham, brought the curse of servitude upon their family.
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Terry
This may be slightly off-topic, but I want to say something about skin-color and verisimilitude in movies.
1. Movies aren't real unless they are documentary.
2. Movies are a kind of artistic simulacrum or interpretive opinion made from materials OTHER than reality.
3. Mel Gibson's THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST went as far as I want to see a film go toward authenticity.
4. Romans didn't speak in British English, but damn if I don't prefer Brits to play those parts in historical films.
5. Zombies are dead and yet they are hungry. Go figure!
6. We DON'T KNOW the skin color of the majority of people who lived on this earth throughout history.
7. There is no such thing as the "origin" of skin color any more than there is the origin of the color chartreuse. Color
is the way our brain interprets certain micro vibrations of light.
8. In order to properly appreciate a movie you actually have to understand the intention of the Director, best obtained from an
interview.
9. Biblical films are all always fictional, imaginative, interpretive and bollocks.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming!
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HELP ME COMPILE A LIST OF DISCARDED WORDS AND PHRASES from the WTS
by Terry inin fort worth, texas around 1959. gradually i became aware of the argot.
special, private language).
jw's had these phrases they used over and over again.. upon first hearing, these words and phrases stood out as odd, weird or awkward.. however.
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Terry
Great stuff--keep them coming.
SUMMATION SO FAR:
1. The Organization (replaces The Society) and was called 'Mother.' Also, Branch.
2. District Conventions are now called "Regional Conventions."
3. This Old System of Things is now "this Wicked System of things."
4. Jonadabs became "Other Sheep."
5. New System, New Order, New World Order
6. Servants are now Elders (Circuit Servant=Circuit Elder) or is it traveling Elder?
7. Book study night--I think--became Bible study night, but is now extinct. Is this correct?
8. Worldly person, Egyptian, goat, DP (disinterested person)
9. Evil Slaves=Apostates
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Are these correct so far or do we need to make, uh hem, "adjustments"?
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HELP ME COMPILE A LIST OF DISCARDED WORDS AND PHRASES from the WTS
by Terry inin fort worth, texas around 1959. gradually i became aware of the argot.
special, private language).
jw's had these phrases they used over and over again.. upon first hearing, these words and phrases stood out as odd, weird or awkward.. however.
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Terry
I began associating with Jehovah's Witnesses at a local Kingdom Hall
in Fort Worth, Texas around 1959. Gradually I became aware of the argot. (i.e. special, private language)
JW's had these phrases they used over and over again.
Upon first hearing, these words and phrases stood out as odd, weird or awkward.
However. . .
after the thousandth hearing, the most natural familiarity makes it all acceptable and eventually invisible.
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Now, I realize most of you aren't as old as I am. (67) You weren't a part of Jehovah's Witnesses 'back in the day.'
It would not be startling if you are unfamiliar with the idea of Brothers and Sisters speaking and thinking in a certain
language no longer spoken or even recalled to mind.
WELL, I WANT TO CALL ATTENTION to these extreme changes and catalog them, if I can with your help!
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To start off, JW's had a period of time where the theology was really saturated with phrases connected to DISPENSATIONAL
teaching. Everything in scripture had a primary and secondary prophetic meaning.
There was Moses and "the Greater Moses" (i.e. Jesus Christ) for example.
The "greater" this and that was a constant drone!
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Next we have catchy terms for Paradise.
THE NEW ORDER
THE NEW WORLD
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Ex-JW's were called EVIL SLAVE CLASS or just EVIL SLAVES
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If you passed by a church out in service, your group would hold their noses and exclaim: 'GOAT SHED!'
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The people who were JW's could alternately be referred to as "the friends.'
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If you left magazines at a house out in service you'd later make a BACK CALL which morphed into RETURN VISIT
Door to door work was (maybe still is) called "out in service".
The quota for preaching for everybody but Pioneers was 10 hours per month AND THERE WAS A BIG DISPLAY BOARD
HUNG ON THE WALL IN THE KINGDOM HALL with your name and your total hours for the month!
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I think you have the idea by now what I'm asking for.
Some things have remained constant such as referencing the religion itself as "the Truth."
I'm looking for discarded ideas, phrases, words, terminology, etc.
WHAT CAN YOU RECALL?
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DEMONS: the torment I suffered
by Terry inwhen i was in my teens i wanted a room of my own, but i lived with my grandparents whose house was very small.. my uncle had been living in a little one room bed-sitter way out in the backyard.
he married and moved away and i moved in.. it was quite isolated and the ceiling was six feet from the floor.
unfortunately, the top of my head was four inches higher than that!
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Terry
I just experienced a memory of that time period and a great lump came to my throat.
Sadness, guilt, and recrimination.
My beloved Grandmother gave me her prized possession, a small Catholic Bible miniature with an ivory, hand-carved cover
and gold clasp.
I TOSSED IT IN THE TRASH!
Yes, stupid bastard that I was--I listened to counsel and escaped demonic control by junking my Grandmother's personal legacy.
I'm just sitting here shaking my head and feeling the sense of loss all over again.
Bloody nonsense turns us into unthinking fools capable of lunacy.
YEAH? NOT AS MUCH AS THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY!
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Brother Knorr's Cadillac and other secret perks
by tim hooper inback when i was a wee lad, my dad told me that the brothers in brooklyn had voted to purchase a cadillac motor car for the sole use of the then president, nathan h knorr.
he'd got this information from the london bethel, him being a chum of the then branch overseer, pryce hughes and his pal ron drage.
religious leaders of non-profit sects are supposed to take a vow of poverty!.
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DEMONS: the torment I suffered
by Terry inwhen i was in my teens i wanted a room of my own, but i lived with my grandparents whose house was very small.. my uncle had been living in a little one room bed-sitter way out in the backyard.
he married and moved away and i moved in.. it was quite isolated and the ceiling was six feet from the floor.
unfortunately, the top of my head was four inches higher than that!
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Terry
When I was in my teens I wanted a room of my own, but I lived with my grandparents whose house was very small.
My uncle had been living in a little one room bed-sitter way out in the backyard. He married and moved away and I moved in.
It was quite isolated and the ceiling was six feet from the floor. Unfortunately, the top of my head was four inches higher than that! The room was only suitable for sleeping. So, I'd walk out in the dark and open my door, duck my head, climb into bed and try to settle in for a night's rest.
Did I mention how isolated this tiny bedroom was? Anyway. . . as I studied with my best friend, who was a JW, we eventually began discussing the idea of demons. At first I thought it was fanciful myth. But, I was also quite the horror movie fan. My subconscious was--shall we say--ripe for exploitation?
My grandmother had been Catholic as a young girl and she was the only influence before the JW's. She certainly believed in Lucifer (i.e. the Devil) and she would read to me from the Book of Revelation when I was a small, impressionable boy.
I think you see where this is heading, right?
As I was exposed more and more to the Watchtower articles on demons I could feel increasing sense of fear. (I think that is the idea!)
A sense of being surrounded by invisible beings began to actually seem possible, then as time passed, it was a total paranoiac.
Ahh, what a blessing studying with JW's is to one and all!
So now we come to the "incidents" as I shall call them . . .Let's say, as I became more sensitized to demons I also had a more difficult time walking out in the dark into the backyard and opening the door to that tiny enclosed bedroom and sliding into bed listening to night sounds with the blood pounding in my ears from an adrenaline rush of terror.
The first "incident' happens around this stage of my JW indoctrination. As I finish my frantic prayers one night and I begin to drift slowly into the early stages of sleep--I sense something disturbing happening to my bed! It is shaking just a bit. Yes. . .I sat up and it stopped.
Was it imagination? (A process of calming myself and forcing fearful thoughts away until I could relax now became a pattern. Night after night these bed tremors would signal fear and I'd sit up, pray frantically and talk myself out it. I would have to say quite candidly I was SCARED SHITLESS to go off to bed by this time. I would hear noises--or so I imagined. I'd be on high alert. Just try sleeping under such an arrested mental state as that! A feedback circuit of feverish prayers pleading for Jehovah to protect me brought more and more sensitivity to my vulnerability.
I honestly think a great many of the brothers and sisters were experiencing a similar increasing fear at this time. JW urgan legends began circulating like rumors. You'd hear wild stories of demons here, there and everywhere. And so on. . .
FAST FORWARD A NUMBER OF YEARS LATER. . . after I matured, married and moved away from home. . . one morning my wife turns to me as says the most extraordinary thing! When she says it--I can't begin to express how I felt! The rush of an EPIPHANY overwhelmed me!
My wife said, "Did you know you shake your foot as you are falling asleep? It makes the bed shake and it wakes me up!"
SHE WAS RIGHT!
I have 'restless limb syndrome' which is describable as wagging your foot at the ankle the same way a dog wags its tail! I WAS CAUSING THE BEDSHAKE--not LUCIFER, SATAN, DEMONS or the Easter rabbit!! What an extreme relief this proved to be!! A huge burden had been lifted like you cannot imagine.
I suddenly began to have a penetrating insight into my psychology---NO--NOT MY PSYCHOLOGY--the JEHOVAH'S WITNESS manipulation of human susceptibility to manipulation by fear!! I now saw myself as a victim of fear-mongering manipulation!
I was pissed! I am still angry about it. When I finally left the Kingdom Hall and JW's forever--it was a kind of freedom I had never known before. I can now walk into a totally dark room without my skin crawling. Even horror movies don't scare me anymore. (This is not as much fun, I must admit.) But, my point is this: ONCE I STOPPED BELIEVING THIS CRAP--I COULD NO LONGER BE AFRAID OF IT.
What you truly believe makes you vulnerable to over-active imaginings. Belief in the supernatural is a primitive form of fear and ignorant imagination. At that stage of mindset--you can convince yourself of practically ANYTHING. I pass this along because I'm very sorry now that I had told so many fellow JW's at the time what was happening to me without the insight as to WHY it was occurring. I only added to the total folklore and fear in my ignorance. So, take this recounting of the "incidents" as my effort to relieve others who may still be suffering from the mind-fuck RELIGIOUS SUPERSTITION from the JW's has inflicted on their lives.
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Note: at the time of these incidents, had I been hooked up to a polygraph, I'm quite certain I'd have passed the truth test with flying colors.
Why? I strongly convinced myself of exactly the kind of stories the Watchtower and Awake! were publishing at the time. All these stories are
still told. WHAT MAKES THEM MORE CONVINCING IS THIS: people you really, really trust--who would never tell you a lie on purpose, are the ones spreading these fables because they believe them.
I offer this for any of you who still live in fear of the noises in your house, the shadows on your bedroom wall, the slight sense of movement which sends the horripilation running across your skin. Your mind is co-operating with your belief system and creating the reinforcement of fear.
Please try to examine your fear for what it is--indoctrination.
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CONFESS or COVERUP
by Terry inthe disconnect from the family of humanity......the snap of that fellow feeling......the cold indifferent shrug as each person dries up and hardens into a mere thing in a kingdom hall.....is a withering away of all that is noble, pure and innocent.. and when that icy moment sets in the rest of the world vanishes into an invisible nothing in the heart of that strutting and proud lump of human flesh called jehovah's witness.. it is the first of many deaths they will endure.... where does it begin and where does it end?.
perhaps by defending huge lies?.
if you are complicit in a crime against humanity you have two basic ethical choices:.
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Terry
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