Terry

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Posts by Terry

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  75

  Having Faith in the Bible

  by william draper in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know many on here have lost faith in the bible , is it possible that is because ones do not have the right perspective regarding it .

  we have usually been taught by bad teachers , or ignorant .

  i believe if we take an honest look at the bible , we will see that it gives us the best answers to crucial matters , it gives us some amount of bearings ( understanding ) , which without having such knowledge we would all be more like walking zombies in amanner of speaking , we would be lacking hope in something better , for surely something better is to come , how can we be sure , .

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  Terry

  

  What is called "Bible knowledge" is really ignorance disguised as knowledge.

  The amount of time which has been wasted by humanity, laboring under the false premise of 'divinely revealed wisdom,' is appalling.

  I'm reminded of a fellow named Cruden.

  In the mid-1720s, Alexander Cruden took on a self-imposed task of Herculean proportions, Himalayan tedium, and inhuman meticulousness: he decided to compile the most thorough concordance of the King James Version of the Bible to date. The first edition ofCruden's Concordance was published in 1737. How could he have possibly completed such a project? Every similar undertaking before or since has been the work of a vast team of people—in recent times made incomparably easier by computers. Cruden worked alone in his lodgings, writing the whole thing out by hand. The KJV has 777,746 words, all of which needed to be put in their proper place. Cruden even wrote explanatory entries on many of the words—in effect, including a Bible dictionary as a bonus. The word “Synagogue,” for example, prompted a 4,000-word essay.

  Furthermore, Cruden’s day job was as a “Corrector of the Press” (proofreader). He would give hawk-eyed attention to prose all day long. Then he would come home at night, not to rest his eyes and enjoy some relaxation, but rather to read the Bible—stopping at every single word to secure the right sheet from the tens of thousands of pieces of paper all around him and to record accurately the reference in its appropriate place. He had no patron, no publisher, no financial backers: his only commission was a divine one.

  Cruden’s Concordance has never been out of print. Some hundred editions have been published, many of which have been reprinted untold times; shoppers at a popular online bookstore today can choose from 18 different in-print versions of Cruden’s.

  Cruden was institutionalized for madness four times in his life. His behavior was often bizarre.

  On another occasion, Cruden had apparently gone to break up a brawl but ended up spending the best part of an hour admonishing disorderly soldiers not to swear while periodically whacking them on the head with a shovel. He also would propose to women with whom he had established no romantic bond (one such intended he had not even met). Being unable to take no for an answer, he would then turn himself into a persistent nuisance, if not a stalker.

  Above from:http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/the-good-insane-concordance-maker
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  75

  Having Faith in the Bible

  by william draper in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know many on here have lost faith in the bible , is it possible that is because ones do not have the right perspective regarding it .

  we have usually been taught by bad teachers , or ignorant .

  i believe if we take an honest look at the bible , we will see that it gives us the best answers to crucial matters , it gives us some amount of bearings ( understanding ) , which without having such knowledge we would all be more like walking zombies in amanner of speaking , we would be lacking hope in something better , for surely something better is to come , how can we be sure , .

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  Terry

  If 'God' truly wished to communicate with mankind in a manner both convincing and immediately productive, He would make good on His bluff to cause the very stones to cry out.

  I'd listen to a talking stone. I suspect everybody else would too.

  To Wit:

  Luke 19:40New King James Version (NKJV)

  40 But He answered and said to them, “I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out.”

  _______________________

  Intellectual honesty compels you to start in a neutral frame of mind rather than assuming your presupposition into 'unassailable' status and inviting rebuttal.

  Your premise gives you away. You didn't ask if a good life well-lived necessarily compelled mankind to look toward ancient books as the foundation of truth and understanding. Why would anyone choose that as the starting point? The truly great strides mankind has made in the last two centuries have been IN SPITE OF the 'wisdom' of the world's 'holy' books.

  Equality for Women, Equality for people of color, child protection, banning smoking, awareness of the necessity of balanced diet and a regimen of exercise, public education, etc.---these strides toward improving society were secular in nature.

  Today's great battle will focus on acceptance of homosexuals as our brothers and sisters without prejudice. A free society cannot function without human rights.

  The Bible is the last refuge for narrow-minded bigotry disguised as piety and submission to the 'will of God'.
• 
  75

  Having Faith in the Bible

  by william draper in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know many on here have lost faith in the bible , is it possible that is because ones do not have the right perspective regarding it .

  we have usually been taught by bad teachers , or ignorant .

  i believe if we take an honest look at the bible , we will see that it gives us the best answers to crucial matters , it gives us some amount of bearings ( understanding ) , which without having such knowledge we would all be more like walking zombies in amanner of speaking , we would be lacking hope in something better , for surely something better is to come , how can we be sure , .

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  Terry

  The ultimate test of the Bible as the 'divine' gift of the living God to mankind comes down

  to this challenge.
  What one thing (if one can even be found) which is testable and provable, was written in Scripture which could not have been written by any mind other than the mind of God?

  Is there one piece of knowledge no man could have known?

  Now some might say: Prophecy! But, a prophetic pronouncement made after the fact is not really prophecy, is it? The Book of Daniel is suspiciously late making its way into print.

  The references to the fall of Jerusalem too cannot escape the likelihood of being post-destruction rather than Pre.

  All in all, it is the exasperating contortions of apologists turning thin air into substance which has maintained for the evangelical Fundamentalists of the world, an illusion of numinous transcendence for the Bible.

  The Bible had little importance for Christianity until the Protestant Reformation. The authority of the Pope had to be replaced by an inerrant guide of some sort.

  Thanks to Martin Luther, the theory of SOLA SCRIPTURA replaced Magisterium of Catholicism.

  The theory was this, a devout and pious seeker-after-Truth only needed a Bible and prayer for Holy Spirit to guide him to perfect understanding of God's will.

  What has transpired in the practical test of Sola Scriptura since the 16th Century?

  40+ thousand Denominations of Christianity!

  That's like 2+2= 40,000 different answers!

  

  Sola scriptura was one of the main theological beliefs that Martin Luther proclaimed against the Catholic Church during the Protestant Reformation.

  _____________________________

  The work of textual criticism, archeology, paleontologists, and modern science have put to rest the claims made for inerrancy, except for the most radically disposed apologists of today. The defense made by Fundamentalists for the integrity of the Bible is couched in rather carefully parsed terms:

  ___________________________

  Biblical inerrancy, as formulated in the "Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy", is the doctrine that the Bible "is without error or fault in all its teaching";[1] or, at least, that "Scripture in the original manuscripts does not affirm anything that is contrary to fact".

  ______________________

  
  

  However, there exists NO ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT at all to prove this assertion!
  
  
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  19

  My first "disagreement" with standard JW thinking

  by TTATT_Paladin in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  about two years after i was baptized, i had this incident.

  i looked at it as an isolated incident at the time, but now realize it would have had basically the same result with 99.99% of any jws not members here.. i will keep it short.

  i was talking with a person who was raised in the religion.

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  Terry

  The etymology of the word Pagan is revealing.

  It meant 'country bumpkin' or somebody living outside the city. A "hick," as seen by those sophisticated inside the city walls, was an object of bullying and contempt.

  Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, civilian, country dweller, from pagus country district.
  
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  19

  My first "disagreement" with standard JW thinking

  by TTATT_Paladin in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  about two years after i was baptized, i had this incident.

  i looked at it as an isolated incident at the time, but now realize it would have had basically the same result with 99.99% of any jws not members here.. i will keep it short.

  i was talking with a person who was raised in the religion.

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  Terry

  http://www.scribd.com/doc/222382341/1935-Calendar-of-Jehovah-God#scribd
  

  The Calendar of Jehovah God

  1935 saw the brief attempt by Jehovah's Witnesses to jettison the Gregorian Calendar and substitute a new one which the Golden Age magazine called "the Calendar of Jehovah God."

  The 1935 Yearbook published an advance copy of the new Calendar and it was mentioned in the March 1, 1935 Watchtower. The series appeared in 3 Golden Age issues in March and April. Apparently, Rutherford's support waned and a warning article on the calendar appeared in the May 1, 1935 Watchtower. Apparently, there are no further references to the new calendar in later publications. It has never been discussed in modern JW history books.

  
  

  
  

  From page 68 of the Yearbook 1935

  
  
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  22

  The 50 Ways to Be Disfellowshipped

  by Wild_Thing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was wondering ... what are all of the "official" reasons provided by elders for disfellowshipping someone?

  i know the most common reasons are adultery and fornication, but what about the others?

  a couple of years ago i traveled back to my hometown` and one of my old jw acquaintances told me that her grown son had been disfellowshipped for refusing to stop associating with another disfellowshipped person.

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  Terry

  You can be DF'd for suspicion of immorality!

  The Elder's 'suspect' and that is enough.
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  284

  I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just dawned on me.

  the existence of god can't be proved, neither is there evidence of god's inexistence.

  so, i'm neither theist neither atheist.

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  Terry

  Religious faith operates in much the same way as spackle used to shore up cracks. The crack is a gap between actually existing planes of fact-based knowledge. As Science fills in information, the cracks narrow and the use for 'spackle' correspondingly diminishes.

  Religion was man's first effort at philosophy attempting to explain the universe, to give a coherent frame of reference to man’s life and a code of moral values. The problems arise by turning man's attention in wrong contexts: supernatural domains of invisible persons and uncaused causes.

  The Christian versions of God point to a different sort of 'future' toward which mankind is said to be heading. As we know, from being Jehovah's Witnesses, the religious future nullifies any expenditure of effort toward THE PRESENT. Education, social progress, humanitarianism is, therefore futile.

  Descriptions of the supernatural realm of God consist of negatives. Religious teachers tamper with reality and dampen ration thinking. They keep telling you what it is not, but never tell you what it is. All their identifications consist of negating: God is that which no human mind can know, they say—and proceed to demand that you consider it knowledge—God is non-man, heaven is non-earth, soul is non-body, virtue is non-profit, A is non-A, perception is non-sensory, knowledge is non-reason. Their definitions are not acts of defining, but of wiping out.

  A lingering and improbable fear is at the root of God belief like monsters under the bed or in the closet. Somewhere between wishful thinking and a vague sense of gratitude for what we can't explain rests the longing to put a face on our irrationality.

  That's my opinion; your mileage may very well vary.
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  67

  How do you feel about religion as a whole?

  by FatherFirst in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it just seems to me religion in general primarily makes truly bad people worse, not genuinly good people better; and in many cases has even made good people do bad things in the name of their religion.

  just curious, a personal poll if you will.

  what are you guys' current views on religion as a whole?

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  Terry

  A rabbit's foot is a lot less problematic and just as effective.
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  145

  Why attack?

  by newqatarjob in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  as someone brought up as a jw and been an elder and been disfellowshipped (twice!!!

  ) i find it difficult to understand why ex jws have to attack the religion, yes religion, not cult or sect.

  i am no longer disfellowshipped just do not want to practice anymore.

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  Terry

  Don't read the 'attack' posts.

  Read the informative and upbeat, friendly posts.

  There! All fixed!

  Discussion groups are a microcosm of the world at large.

  Life is what you make of it.

  Choose your pathway carefully and you won't wander into bad smells, yapping beasts, or quicksand. :)
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  6

  TESTING Watchtower claims of "progressive truth" against actual history

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  proving watchtower malfeasance.

  to catch the governing body in a big, fat lie, we must compare the excuse given for changing previous teachings against actual watchtower history and publications.

  are changes in doctrine progressive by adding to understandingorare they regressive, merely repeating exactly what was previously taught?.

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  Terry

  Catching the GB in the crosshairs of outright misrepresentation is gratifying. How can they wriggle about like that and hope to escape the consequences of their deliberate fraud?

  Two popular tries:

  1. Claim to be imperfect men who make mistakes.

  2. Claim apostates lie about the past

  This is refuted by:

  1: Ask HOW those 'mistakes' were made. Clearly, Jehovah is channeling factual understanding or they are distorting the source of their errors. If something is 'true'--why change it? Why is New Light changed back to Old Light?

  2. Point out it is the Watchtower's own publications which demonstrate the misrepresentation. Truth does not contradict itself.