cofty:
Since you have contempt for democracy, how do we get to this state that you call 'how things ought to be', and what would that state look like?
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Wrong.
I have contempt for CORRUPTION of Democracy in the same way bedbugs in Luxury Hotels is unacceptable.
I think you are disingenuously misreading because I've been excruciatingly clear.
Democracy with fair elections, neutral Media, and the absence of money (i.e. oligarch puppeteers) works great because THE PEOPLE can access reform and credible information to analyze what sort of leadership and policies they are asking for.
There is a movie embodying the spirit of what I'm saying.
Watch the movie and see what I mean by "ought to be".
Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jit3YhGx5pU
Posts by Terry
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19"I'm As Mad as Hell - and I'm not going to take it anymore" (First Principles)
by Terry intwo things we all need to know; may already know; have known for a long long time - but nothing at all has changed .... first principles.
these are assumptions that cannot be deduced from any other proposition or assumption.. .
(what the hell does that mean?).
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Terry
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19
"I'm As Mad as Hell - and I'm not going to take it anymore" (First Principles)
by Terry intwo things we all need to know; may already know; have known for a long long time - but nothing at all has changed .... first principles.
these are assumptions that cannot be deduced from any other proposition or assumption.. .
(what the hell does that mean?).
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Terry
cofty: I think you could condense this entire thread into three words - 'democracy is imperfect'.
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Democracy in America is corrupt. That's a wee bit more precise and alarming.
The 'ho-hum' malaise is also part of the emergency.
Rigged elections, false media reporting, and the buy-out of the political establishment (by the Oligarchy) requires action on the part of the constituency.
All over the world, a despised and displaced middle class has resorted
to bizarre, flailing choices (Trump and Brexit, for instance) and the rift
between the 'basket of deplorables' and the Elite is an erupting pustule of
of volcanic heat and no light.
Not as pithy as your synopsis, Cofty - but more accurate. -
19
"I'm As Mad as Hell - and I'm not going to take it anymore" (First Principles)
by Terry intwo things we all need to know; may already know; have known for a long long time - but nothing at all has changed .... first principles.
these are assumptions that cannot be deduced from any other proposition or assumption.. .
(what the hell does that mean?).
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Terry
I'm still hoping that you might begin to even hint at an alternative Terry.
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Cofty -
Think of it this way:
We all die. What's the alternative? Resurrection to heaven or paradise?
You are calling for the role of RELIGION which is to create an alternative to reality itself.That escape /alternative is, as Willy Wonka sang, "Pure Imagination."
There IS NO ALTERNATIVE to reality!
Now there is pragmatism for you.
Quack medicine cures are an alternative to chemotherapy and when
you are desperate and dying --why wouldn't you try coffee enemas?
Seriously Cofty ...
Getting a small group to agree on something is easy peasy.
But it is all those "other" small groups which spoil the party.
Liberal vs Conservative
House of Commons vs Parliament
Democrat >Social Justice Democrat
Republican > Tea Party
Judaism >Zionist
Christian >Catholic >Protestant > Orthodox > Cults
Islam >Sunni > Shia > Wahabi
and don't forget:- Sunni Hanafi.
- Sunni Maliki.
- Sunni Shafi'i.
- Sunni Hanbali.
- Shi'i Imāmī (followers of the Ja'fari jurisprudence)
- Shi'i Zaydi.
- Khariji Ibadi.
- Sunni Ẓāhirī
Bolshevik / Mensheviks / Monarchy
... - And the beat goes on ...
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THE VERY BEST THING a Western Democracy can hope for is a slow
rot into corruption by the Oligarchy.
Well - it is here!
Now what?
Enough common people must arise in an insurrection to overthrow that Power Cabal.
In doing it - the economy will crash.
Is that really an ALTERNATIVE? Sure but burning the barn to get rid of rats
is bad for the environment :)
ALTERNATIVES aren't as beautiful as make-believe solutions.
The current model in the U.S.A. is fake elections.
______________Pure Imagination
Hold your breath
Make a wish count to threeCome with me and you'll be
In a world of pure imagination
Take a look and you'll see
Into your imaginationWe'll begin with a spin
Traveling in the world of my creation
What we'll see will defy explanationIf you want to view paradise
Simply look around and view it
Anything you want to, do it
Wanna change the world?
There's nothing to itThere is no life I know
To compare with pure imagination
Living there, you'll be free
If you truly wish to beIf you want to view…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVi3-PrQ0pY -
19
"I'm As Mad as Hell - and I'm not going to take it anymore" (First Principles)
by Terry intwo things we all need to know; may already know; have known for a long long time - but nothing at all has changed .... first principles.
these are assumptions that cannot be deduced from any other proposition or assumption.. .
(what the hell does that mean?).
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Terry
DEMOCRACY: Two wolves and a sheep voting on 'what's for lunch'.
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19
"I'm As Mad as Hell - and I'm not going to take it anymore" (First Principles)
by Terry intwo things we all need to know; may already know; have known for a long long time - but nothing at all has changed .... first principles.
these are assumptions that cannot be deduced from any other proposition or assumption.. .
(what the hell does that mean?).
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Terry
Terry - So how do we get to this state that you call 'how things ought to be'?
And what would that state look like?
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Not just a good question; the only question.
First, we need a reality check about the concept of THE BEST OF ALL POSSIBLE WORLDS.
If "politics is the art of the possible", (A BIG IF) then, political structure would platform such a world.
But- the notion of "best" is a kind of asymptotic construct.
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The population of a set of constituents in confronting a UTOPIA would
produce conflict, disagreement, friction, and division simply due to the human condition (all politics is local). The more "local" the more specificity vis-a-vis the whole.
Here is why I think this is an insurmountable obstacle to Utopia.
The function of an ideal begins in the imagination.
Just as there is no final number (you can always +1) a better world can always be imagined. (Better for who? At what cost to others?)
"Consequently, the poor you always have with you."
In the Russian Revolution, the Bolsheviks chased the Communist ideal to its logical end which = murdering the opposition and gulags.
What else can you do with political opponents when you've got a revolution to run?
I personally don't believe any public Utopia is worth much more than a human life costs.
The enemy of the people isn't much more than POWER in the hands of people who don't include you in their own conceptual ideal.
Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, get along just dandy at the cost of reality.
They're willing to go to their death for such comfort.
Others are cheerful to see them pay that price.
As far as secular politics and democratic elections, I don't see them as "real" but only a sop to masses to give the illusion of participation and the consolation of "better luck next time."
I've lived long enough to know the next time is like the last time. It is repertory meets Kabuki.
That's earned cynicism on my part :) -
19
"I'm As Mad as Hell - and I'm not going to take it anymore" (First Principles)
by Terry intwo things we all need to know; may already know; have known for a long long time - but nothing at all has changed .... first principles.
these are assumptions that cannot be deduced from any other proposition or assumption.. .
(what the hell does that mean?).
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Terry
Agents for change (in politics) have emerged worldwide.
(Set aside momentarily their obvious defects of character and/or presentation)
There is a visceral hunger for CHANGE (if not revolution) which has placed
these people in power.
Voters want the dishes shattered by the bulls.
Revolutionary instinct is :BREAK THINGS.
The question in my mind is how long and how deep?
IF Trump is re-elected (don't think it will happen) the next notch is ratcheted up.
Enough angry people must hit the point of no return for actual Revolution.
It all starts with angry people who won't take "it" anymore.
Democrats in the U.S. have been completely ineffectual in the Never-Trump movement because the core impulse is NOT CENTERED ON POLICY.
It is merely anger.
The population is not helped existentially. -
19
"I'm As Mad as Hell - and I'm not going to take it anymore" (First Principles)
by Terry intwo things we all need to know; may already know; have known for a long long time - but nothing at all has changed .... first principles.
these are assumptions that cannot be deduced from any other proposition or assumption.. .
(what the hell does that mean?).
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Terry
Two things we all need to know; may already know; have known for a long long time - but nothing at all has changed ...
First Principles____________These are assumptions that cannot be deduced from any other proposition or assumption.(What the hell does THAT mean?)(Example)Before a functioning airplane was designed and built successfully, centuries of failures, accidents, deaths, and mistakes occurred.Brilliant inventors failed - and did so horribly.WHY?They "assumed" using birds as the perfect analogy for flight.Birds flap wings seemed an inescapable Truth.Result?Thousands of false starts and injuries.Flapping was impractical. Human bodies aren't analogous to birds.
FIRST PRINCIPLES1. Start from scratch by NOT thinking analogously.2. Originality isNOT an echo of an already existing thing.3. The Past and the Future don't have to beconnected.(Example: Automobiles)Historically, horses are a fast and reliable method of travel.Historically, machines are ponderous, clunky, slow, and costly.You can't replace the horse (as transportation) with a machine.(Cars would require flat highways and streets, right?There were none. Forget about it.)So-calledPRACTICAL wisdomis deeply rooted in THE PAST. "We've always done it this way." But stop and think:All innovation would cease using the practical PAST as a model.Living things survive and progress by ADAPTATION to change.99.99% of everything which is now extinct DID NOT ADAPT because history lies about the future. (What is the lie? THIS WORKS, HAS WORKED, and WILL WORK AGAIN AND AGAIN.)4. ARISTOTLE influenced great thinkers for thousands of years.He described FIRST PRINCIPLE thinking right down to fundamental essence for innovation. (What a thing is - it's essence - is what you are left with when everything else is removed.)5. Healthy SKEPTICISM challenges authority, history, conventional thinking about WHY we must accept the way it is what it is.Everything in our world today is a TENSION between the way things ought to be and the way powerful interestsdemand we accept what they are doing "for our own good."____ REVOLUTION?Revolution comes when enough people suddenly see what a huge difference exists inside that tension just mentioned above.We need to ask questions. Such as?LEADERS - aren't they really chosen by us as a result of the false principle of "choose the lesser of two evils?" We are told we MUST accept this as inescapable!This FALSE CHOICE is a delusional construct forced upon us by so-called INFLUENCERS bought and paid for by the super-wealthy. (Manufacturing our consent).Do we need toTRUST our institutions?OLIGARCHS are super-wealthy business leaders who seek political influence (and positions of political power).Are we so accustomed to their lying and misrepresentation through Media and Politics we cannot detect these Oligarch's pulling of strings?What is the alternative? Or - is there one?DESTROY the false narratives.REPLACE the corruption and the system in which it thrives.DEFY propaganda reassurances.AVOID partisan ideology and BLACK and WHITE thinking.EMBRACE First Principles by the revolution...and beginning with yourself.The most powerful word in the history of mankind is the word "NO"!NO.NO.NO."I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore."THIS SPEECH was depicted in the movie NETWORK 45 YEARS AGO!It is still true - and nothing has changed. -
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IMPERFECTION (Lesson learned)
by Terry inimperfection______________my favorite teacher (grade 9);mr. mcgilvray.he had a way.
charm, humor, intelligence, and irreverence.i loved the man.he'd teach a quick lesson that would linger in the mind for a long, long time.
even as long as...well....now.. allow me to tell you about it...______.
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Terry
My 8th grade teacher, Mrs. Green, took a special interest in me.
A white-haired lady with spectacles, she praised what appeared to her to be an excellent memory.
This inspired me.
On 'Recitation Day" (students could earn extra grade points by tackling The Rime of the Ancient Mariner) I recited the entire poem.
All 625 lines.
The bell rang before I was finished but everybody remained at their desk.
I finished to uproarious applause and a mad dash to next class.614He prayeth best, who loveth best615All things both great and small;616For the dear God who loveth us,617He made and loveth all.618The Mariner, whose eye is bright,619Whose beard with age is hoar,620Is gone: and now the Wedding-Guest621Turned from the bridegroom's door.622He went like one that hath been stunned,623And is of sense forlorn:624A sadder and a wiser man,625He rose the morrow morn. -
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IMPERFECTION (Lesson learned)
by Terry inimperfection______________my favorite teacher (grade 9);mr. mcgilvray.he had a way.
charm, humor, intelligence, and irreverence.i loved the man.he'd teach a quick lesson that would linger in the mind for a long, long time.
even as long as...well....now.. allow me to tell you about it...______.
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Terry
Acerbitous
Can you imagine trying that today?
A friend and I were planning to hook up smoke-bombs to the electric circuits of the school bells on the last day of school. It never happened.
But the very idea I would get myself into that sort of conspiracy appalls me now.
___________Vanderhoven7
We had a coach in Jr. High School who was a real piece of work. A bully who liked to walk around naked inside the dressing room with his horse dick lolling about.
He used a cricket bat to discipline me when I simply forgot to bring my gym shorts.
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IMPERFECTION (Lesson learned)
by Terry inimperfection______________my favorite teacher (grade 9);mr. mcgilvray.he had a way.
charm, humor, intelligence, and irreverence.i loved the man.he'd teach a quick lesson that would linger in the mind for a long, long time.
even as long as...well....now.. allow me to tell you about it...______.
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Terry
IMPERFECTION
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My favorite teacher (Grade 9);
Mr. McGilvray.
He had a way. Charm, humor, intelligence, and irreverence.
I loved the man.
He'd teach a quick lesson that would linger in the mind for a long, long time.
Even as long as...well....now.Allow me to tell you about it...
______Microscope on tabletop. Very sharp kitchen knife.
"This blade is sharp and perfect for slicing. Even a mushy tomato.
A thin page of newsprint - sliced clean through."
(We watched.)"Did you hear me say something about the blade being 'perfect'?"
(Heads nod.)"Okay, let me project the magnified blade onto this screen for a very close-up look."
(Clicks the switch. Image projected.)"Just look how jagged the metal edge really is -- up close. Are you surprised?"
(See photo below)
"This is reality. It is ugly, isn't it? Looks like a mountain range instead of something that slices through paper. What's going on here?"
(We all sat dumb. My hand usually went up first. Not this time.)
Silence for a full minute."Think about it."
And that was all to the lesson that day!He turned off the projector and removed the microscope from the table and reached for a paperback book.
He began reading to us (as he always loved to do).
The book was hilarious.
(Barefoot Boy With Cheek (Max Shulman)
_______I was 15 years old.
20 years later, I ran into my old Science teacher quite unexpectedly.
"I know you!" He declared quickly.
That warmed my heart.
I was older and wore a beard!We exchanged casual conversation for a minute.
I told the man what he meant to me. I poured it out. I simply had to do so.
He listened and thanked me.Then, he closed his eyes gently and reopened them - like someone waking from a dream. He turned toward me and spoke.
"You probably understood the lesson about imperfection. Remember?"
I did remember."Well, I think so."
He lifted his eyebrows. He was inviting comment.
"Imperfection is finding a way to complain about what is perfect."
(Big grin)
Lesson learned.
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