If you talk about Zombie movies and ask, "Why would dead people be hungry? Why don't Zombies poop? Why wouldn't all of them rot and fall to pieces?" etc. etc. You would be demanding Real World logic to apply.
We can't mix the real with the unreal.
Posts by Terry
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33Jesus, without sin and a perfect human being ?
by smiddy3 inhow could he be, regardless of how god impregnated mary, as she was a sinful human just like the rest of us according to the bible.. mary was subjected to the adamic sin like all other humans, so jesus had to at least be part sinner himself.. to believe otherwise is just deluding oneself imho .. the only way jesus could have been really without sin is if god created him the same way he created adam.. what do you think ?
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Terry
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14
What kind of literary device is this?
by EdenOne ini know there's a name for this technique but i need a name, nonetheless.. if i say to my audience: apostates are horrible, satanic, dirty, sinners, mentally diseased etc ... all hateful traits.
and then i say: person a is an apostate.
then my audience will associate all the traits previously associated with "apostate" with person a. but i can say: i never said person a was horrible, satanic, dirty, mentally diseased etc.
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Terry
SYLLOGISM:
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39
Vice doc spotlights Jehovah’s Witnesses
by Rattigan350 inhttps://www.c21media.net/news/vice-doc-spotlights-jehovahs-witnesses/.
us cable network vice tv will debut an original documentary that claims to uncover corruption and abuse within the jehovah’s witnesses community.. vice versa: crusaders, which will air on july 28, is part of the channel’s vice versa brand, known for docs including fear of a black quarterback and the neglected pandemic.. the project comes from hollywood director aaron kaufman, who was shunned by his jehovah’s witness family after investigating paedophilia within the organisation.. crusaders is directed by kaufman and executive produced by lauren terp, as well as daniel levinson and robert fernandez for us-london prodco moxie pictures, and danny gabai and andrew freston for vice studios.
executive producing for vice tv is catherine whyte.. kaufman said: “after witnessing first-hand the cycle of abuse that runs deep within the jehovah’s witnesses, i could not rest until the dark truth of this organisation was brought to light.
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59
In 12 Lines or Less: GIVE US YOUR AUTOBIOGRAPHY POETICALLY
by Terry inautobiography.
forever began at the day of my birth, but, it turns out that it was a lie,.
i am who i am when nobody's watching, then nothing is there to deny.. .
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Terry
I discovered this old post from back in 2014.
It is quite remarkable how much creative energy is expressed in these SIX PAGES!
Well worth browsing again! -
39
Vice doc spotlights Jehovah’s Witnesses
by Rattigan350 inhttps://www.c21media.net/news/vice-doc-spotlights-jehovahs-witnesses/.
us cable network vice tv will debut an original documentary that claims to uncover corruption and abuse within the jehovah’s witnesses community.. vice versa: crusaders, which will air on july 28, is part of the channel’s vice versa brand, known for docs including fear of a black quarterback and the neglected pandemic.. the project comes from hollywood director aaron kaufman, who was shunned by his jehovah’s witness family after investigating paedophilia within the organisation.. crusaders is directed by kaufman and executive produced by lauren terp, as well as daniel levinson and robert fernandez for us-london prodco moxie pictures, and danny gabai and andrew freston for vice studios.
executive producing for vice tv is catherine whyte.. kaufman said: “after witnessing first-hand the cycle of abuse that runs deep within the jehovah’s witnesses, i could not rest until the dark truth of this organisation was brought to light.
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8
FOLLOW the MONEY : Pastor Russell makes it rain
by Terry inpastor russell: follow the money.
charles t. russell, age of 13, joined the congregational church (dumped presbyterian).. he went (like girl scouts are sent out with cookies to sell) door to door to raise money for the church.. russell hated fundraising.
he had to ask poor people to part with their money.
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Converted Greek Philosopher Explains Christianity in 125 AD
by Sea Breeze ini ran across a pretty early treatise.
we were all taught that "real" christianity was lost to history and was only restored once russell and then rutherford restored it so that the wt could be appointed as god's "mouthpiece".
but, aristides wrote to the emperor hadrian and gave a pretty good synopsis of core christian belief in 125 ad.
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Terry
Here is the full text:
THE APOLOGY OF ARISTIDESHere follows the defense which Aristides the philosopher made before Hadrian the King on behalf of reverence for God.
. . . All-powerful Caesar Titus Hadrianus Antoninus, venerable and merciful, from Marcianus Aristides, an Athenian philosopher.
I. I, O King, by the grace of God came into this world; and when I had considered the heaven and the earth and the seas and had surveyed the sun and the rest of creation, I marveled at the beauty of the world. And I perceived that the world and all that is therein are moved by the power of another; and I understood that he who moves them is God, who is hidden in them, and veiled by them. And it is manifest that that which causes motion is more powerful than that which is moved. But that I should make a search concerning this same mover of all, as to what is his nature (for it seems to me, he is indeed unsearchable in his nature), and that I should argue as to the constancy of his government, so as to grasp it fully,--this is a vain effort for me; for it is not possible that a man should fully comprehend it. I say, however, concerning this mover of the world, that he is God of all, who made all things for the sake of mankind. And it seems to me that this is reasonable, that one should fear God and should not oppress man.
I say, then, that God is not born, not made, an ever-abiding nature without beginning and without end, immortal, perfect, and incomprehensible. Now when I say that he is "perfect," this means that there is not in him any defect, and he is not in need of anything but all things are in need of him. And when I say that he is "without beginning," this means that everything which has a beginning has also an end, and that which has an end may be brought to an end. He has no name, for everything which has a name is kindred to things created. Form he has none, nor yet any union of members; for whatsoever possesses these is kindred to things fashioned. He is neither male nor female. The heavens do not limit him, but the heavens and all things, visible and invisible, receive their bounds from him. Adversary, he has none, for there exists not any stronger than he. Wrath and indignation he possesses not, for there is nothing which is able to stand against him. Ignorance and forgetfulness are not in his nature, for he is altogether wisdom and understanding; and in Him stands fast all that exists. He requires not sacrifice and libation, nor even one of the things visible; He requires not aught from any, but all living creatures stand in need of him.
II. Since, then, we have addressed you concerning God, so far as our discourse can bear upon him, let us now come to the race of men, that we may know which of them participate in the truth of which we have spoken, and which of them go astray from it.
This is clear to you, O King, that there are four classes of men in this world:--Barbarians and Greeks, Jews and Christians. The Barbarians, indeed, trace the origin of their kind of religion from Kronos and from Rhea and their other gods; the Greeks, however, from Helenos, who is said to be sprung from Zeus. And by Helenos there were born Aiolos and Xuthos, and there were others descended from Inachos and Phoroneus, and lastly from the Egyptian Danaos and from Kadmos and from Dionysos.
The Jews, again, trace the origin of their race from Abraham, who begat Isaac, of whom was born Jacob. And he begat twelve sons who migrated from Syria to Egypt; and there they were called the nation of the Hebrews, by him who made their laws; and at length, they were named Jews.
The Christians, then, trace the beginning of their religion from Jesus the Messiah; and he is named the Son of God Most High. And it is said that God came down from heaven, and from a Hebrew virgin assumed and clothed himself with flesh, and the Son of God lived in a daughter of man. This is taught in the gospel, as it is called, which a short time was preached among them; and you also if you will read therein, may perceive the power which belongs to it. This Jesus, then, was born of the race of the Hebrews; and he had twelve disciples in order that the purpose of his incarnation might in time be accomplished. But he himself was pierced by the Jews, and he died and was buried, and they say that after three days he rose and ascended to heaven. Thereupon these twelve disciples went forth throughout the known parts of the world and kept showing his greatness with all modesty and uprightness. And hence also those of the present-day who believe that preaching are called Christians, and they have become famous.
So then there are, as I said above, four classes of men:--Barbarians and Greeks, Jews and Christians.
Moreover, the wind is obedient to God, and fire to the angels; the waters also to the demons and the earth to the sons of men. [Possibly inserted by mistake into one of the early MSS.]
III. Let us begin, then, with the Barbarians, and go on to the rest of the nations one after another, that we may see which of them hold the truth as to God and which of them hold error.
The Barbarians, then, as they did not apprehend God, went astray among the elements, and began to worship things created instead of their Creator; and for this end, they made images and shut them up in shrines, and lo! they worship them, guarding them the while with much care, lest their gods are stolen by robbers. And the Barbarians did not observe that that which acts as guard is greater than that which is guarded and that everyone who creates is greater than that which is created. If it is, then, that their gods are too feeble to see to their own safety, how will they take thought for the safety of men? Great then is the error into which the Barbarians wandered in worshipping lifeless images which can do nothing to help them. And I am led to wonder, O King, at their philosophers, how that even they went astray and gave the name of gods to images which were made in honor of the elements; and that their sages did not perceive that the elements also are dissoluble and perishable. For if a small part of an element is dissolved or destroyed, the whole of it may be dissolved and destroyed. If then the elements themselves are dissolved and destroyed and forced to be subject to another that is more stubborn than they, and if they are not in their nature gods, why, forsooth, do they call the images which are made in their honor, God? Great, then, is the error which the philosophers among them have brought upon their followers.
IV. Let us turn now, O King, to the elements in themselves, that we may make clear in regard to them, that they are not gods, but a created thing, liable to ruin and change, which is of the same nature as man; whereas God is imperishable and unvarying, and invisible, while yet He sees, and overrules, and transforms all things.
Those then who believe concerning the earth that it is a god have hitherto deceived themselves since it is furrowed and set with plants and trenched; and it takes in the filthy refuse of men and beasts and cattle. And at times it becomes unfruitful, for if it is burnt to ashes it becomes devoid of life, for nothing germinates from an earthen jar. And besides, if water is collected upon it, it is dissolved together with its products. And lo! it is trodden under foot of men and beast and receives the blood of the slain, and it is dug open, and filled with the dead, and becomes a tomb for corpses. But it is impossible that nature, which is holy and worthy and blessed and immortal, should allow of any one of these things. And hence it appears to us that the earth is not a god but a creation of God.
V. In the same way, again, those erred who believed the waters to be gods. For the waters were created for the use of man, and are put under his rule in many ways. For they suffer change and admit impurity, and are destroyed and lose their nature while they are boiled into many substances. And they take colors that do not belong. to them; they are also congealed by frost and are mingled and permeated with the filth of men and beasts, and with the blood of the slain. And being checked by skilled workmen through the restraint of aqueducts, they flow and are diverted against their inclination, and come into gardens and other places in order that they may be collected and issue forth as a means of fertility for man, and that they may cleanse away every impurity and fulfill the serviceman requires from them. Wherefore it is impossible that the waters should be a god, but they are a work of God and a part of the world.
In like manner also they who believed that fire is a god erred to no slight extent. For it, too, was created for the service of men, and is subject to them in many ways:--in the preparation of meats, and as a means of casting metals, and for other ends whereof your Majesty is aware. At the same time, it is quenched and extinguished in many ways.
Again they also erred who believed the motion of the winds to be a god. For it is well known to us that those winds are under the dominion of another, at times their motion increases, and at times it fails and ceases at the command of him who controls them. For they were created by God for the sake of men, in order to supply the necessity of trees and fruits and seeds; and to bring over the sea ships which convey for men necessaries and goods from places where they are found to places where they are not found, and to govern the quarters of the world. And as for itself, at times it increases and again abates; and in one place brings help and in another causes disaster at the bidding of him who rules it. And mankind too is able by known means to confine and keep it in check in order that it may fulfill for them the service they require from it. And of itself, it has not any authority at all. And hence it is impossible that the winds should be called gods, but rather a thing made by God.
VI. So also they erred who believed that the sun is a god. For we see that it is moved by the compulsion of another, and revolves and makes its journey, and proceeds from sign to sign, rising and setting every day, so as to give warmth for the growth of plants and trees, and to bring forth into the air wherewith it (sunlight) is mingled every growing thing which is upon the earth. And to it there belongs, by comparison, a part in common with the rest of the stars in its course; and though it is one in its nature it is associated with many parts for the supply of the needs of men; and that not according to its own will but rather according to the will of him who rules it. And hence it is impossible that the sun should be a god, but the work of God; and in like manner also the moon and the stars.
VII. And those who believed of the men of the past, that some of them were gods, they too were much mistaken. For as you yourself allow, O King, man is constituted of the four elements and of a soul and a spirit (and hence he is called a microcosm), and without any one of these parts, he could not consist. He has a beginning and an end, and he is born and dies. But God, as I said, has none of these things in his nature, but is uncreated and imperishable. And hence it is not possible that we should set up man to be of the nature of God:--man, to whom at times when he looks for joy, there comes trouble, and when he looks for laughter there comes to him weeping,--who is wrathful and covetous and envious, with other defects as well. And he is destroyed in many ways by the elements and also by the animals.
And hence, O King, we are bound to recognize the error of the Barbarians, that thereby, since they did not find traces of the true God, they fell aside from the truth, and went after the desire of their imagination, serving the perishable elements and lifeless images, and through their error not apprehending what the true God is.
VIII. Let us turn further to the Greeks also, that we may know what opinion they hold as to the true God. The Greeks, then, because they are more subtle than the Barbarians, have gone further astray than the Barbarians; inasmuch as they have introduced many fictitious gods, and have set up some of them as males and some as females; and in that some of their gods were found who were adulterers, and did murder, and were deluded, and envious, and wrathful and passionate, and parricides, and thieves, and robbers. And some of them, they say, was crippled and limped, and some were sorcerers, and some actually went mad, and some played on lyres, and some were given to roaming on the hills, and some even died, and some were struck dead by lightning, and some were made servants even to men, and some escaped by flight, and some were kidnapped by men, and some, indeed, were lamented and deplored by men. And some, they say, went down to Sheol, and some were grievously wounded, and some transformed themselves into the likeness of animals to seduce the race of mortal women, and some polluted themselves by lying with males And some, they say, were wedded to their mothers and their sisters and their daughters. And they say of their gods that they committed adultery with the daughters of men, and of these, there was born a certain race which also was mortal. And they say that some of the females disputed about beauty, and appeared before men for judgment. Thus, O King, have the Greeks put forward foulness and absurdity, and folly about their gods and about themselves, in that they have called those that are of such a nature gods, who are no gods. And hence mankind has received incitements to commit adultery and fornication, and to steal and to practice all that is offensive and hated and abhorred. For if they who are called their gods practiced all these things which are written above, how much more should men practice them--men, who believe that their gods themselves practiced them. And owing to the foulness of this error there have happened to mankind harassing wars, and great famines, and bitter captivity, and complete desolation. And lo! it was by reason of this alone that they suffered and that all these things came upon them; and while they endured those things they did not perceive in their mind that for their error those things came upon them.
IX. Let us proceed further to their account of their gods that we may carefully demonstrate all that is said above. First of all, the Greeks bring forward as a god Kronos, that is to say, Chiun (Saturn). And his worshippers sacrifice their children to him, and they burn some of them alive in his honor. And they say that he took to him among his wives Rhea, and begat many children by her. By her too he begat Dios, who is called Zeus. And at length he (Kronos) went mad, and through fear of an oracle that had been made known to him, he began to devour his sons. And from him Zeus has stolen away without his knowledge; and at length, Zeus bound him, and mutilated the signs of his manhood, and flung them into the sea. And hence, as they say in a fable, there was engendered Aphrodite, who is called Astarte. And he (Zeus) cast out Kronos fettered into darkness. Great then is the error and ignominy which the Greeks have brought forward about the first of their gods, in that they have said all this about him, O King. It is impossible that a god should be bound or mutilated; and if it is otherwise, he is indeed miserable.
And after Kronos, they bring forward another god Zeus. And they say of him that he assumed the sovereignty, and was king over all the gods. And they say that he changed himself into a beast and other shapes in order to seduce mortal women and to raise up by them children for himself. Once, they say, he changed himself into a bull through love of Europe and Pasiphae. And again he changed himself into the likeness of gold through the love of Danae, and to a swan through love of Leda, and to a man through love of Antiope, and to lightning through love of Luna, and so by these, he begat many children. For by Antiope, they say, that he begat Zethus and Amphion, and by Luna Dionysos, by Alcmena Hercules, and by Leto, Apollo, and Artemis, and by Danae Perseus, and by Leda, Castor and Polydeuces, and Helene and Paludus, and by Mnemosyne he begat nine daughters whom they styled the Muses, and by Europe, Minos and Rhadamanthus and Sarpedon. And lastly, he changed himself into the likeness of an eagle through his passion for Ganydemos (Ganymede) the shepherd.
By reason of these tales, O King, much evil has arisen among men, who to this day are imitators of their gods, and practice adultery and defile themselves with their mothers and their sisters, and by lying with males, and some make bold to slay even their parents. For if he who is said to be the chief and king of their gods do these things how much more should his worshippers imitate him? And great is the folly which the Greeks have brought forward in their narrative concerning him. For it is impossible that a god should practice adultery or fornication or come near to lie with males, or kill his parents; and if it is otherwise, he is much worse than a destructive demon.
X. Again they bring forward as another god Hephaistos. And they say of him, that he is lame, and a cap is set on his head, and he holds in his hands fire tongs and a hammer; and he follows the craft of iron working, that thereby he may procure the necessaries of his livelihood. Is then this god so very needy? But it cannot be that a god should be needy or lame, else he is very worthless.
And further, they bring in another god and call him Hermes. And they say that he is a thief, a lover of avarice, and greedy for gain, and a magician, and mutilated and an athlete, and an interpreter of language. But it is impossible that a god should be a magician or avaricious, or maimed, or craving for what is not his, or an athlete. And if it is otherwise, he is found to be useless.
And after him, they bring forward as another god Asklepios. And they say that he is a physician and prepares drugs and plaster that he may supply the necessaries of his livelihood. Is then this god in want? And at length, he was struck with lightning by Dios on account of Tyndareus of Lacedaemon, and so he died. If then Asklepios were a god, and, when he was struck with lightning, was unable to help himself, how should he be able to give help to others? But that a divine nature should be in want or be destroyed by lightning is impossible.
And again they bring forward another as a god, and they call him Ares. And they say that he is a warrior, and jealous, and covets sheep and things which are not his. And he makes gain by his arms. And they say that at length he committed adultery with Aphrodite, and was caught by the little boy Eros and by Hephaistos the husband of Aphrodite. But it is impossible that a god should be a warrior or bound or an adulterer.
And again they say of Dionysos that he forsooth! is a god, who arranges carousals by night, and teaches drunkenness, and carries off women who do not belong to him. And at length, they say, he went mad and dismissed his handmaidens and fled into the desert; and during his madness, he ate serpents. And at last, he was killed by Titanos. If then Dionysos were a god, and when he was being killed was unable to help himself, how is it possible that he should help others?
Herakles next they bring forward and say that he is a god, who hates detestable things, a tyrant, and warrior and a destroyer of plagues. And of him also they say that at length he became mad and killed his own children, and east himself into a fire and died. If then Herakles is a god, and in all these calamities was unable to rescue himself, how should others ask help from him? But it is impossible that a god should be mad, or drunken or a slayer of his children, or consumed by fire.
XI. And after him they bring forward another god and call him Apollon. And they say that he is jealous and inconstant, and at times he holds the bow and quiver, and again the lyre and plectron. And he utters oracles for men that he may receive rewards from them. Is then this god in need of rewards? But it is an insult that all these things should be found with a god.
And after him they bring forward as a goddess Artemis, the sister of Apollo; and they say that she was a huntress and that she herself used to carry a bow and bolts, and to roam about upon the mountains, leading the hounds to hunt stags or wild bears of the field. But it is disgraceful that a virgin maid should roam alone upon the hills or hunt in the chase for animals. Wherefore it is impossible that Artemis should be a goddess.
Again they say of Aphrodite that she indeed is a goddess. And at times she dwells with their gods, but at other times she is a neighbor to men. And once she had Ares as a lover, and again Adonis who is Tammuz. Once also, Aphrodite was wailing and weeping for the death of Tammuz, and that she went down to Sheol that she might redeem Adonis from Persephone, who is the daughter of Sheol (Hades). If then Aphrodite is a goddess and was unable to help her lover at his death, how will she find it possible to help others? And this cannot be listened to, that a divine nature should come to weeping and wailing and adultery.
And again they say of Tammuz that he is a god. And he is, forsooth! a hunter and an adulterer. And they say that he was killed by a wound from a wild boar, without being able to help himself. And if he could not help himself, how can he take thought for the human race? But that a god should be an adulterer or a hunter or should die by violence is impossible.
Again they say of Rhea that she is the mother of their gods. And they say that she had once a lover Atys and that she used to delight in depraved men. And at last, she raised a lamentation and mourned for Atys her lover. If then the mother of their gods was unable to help her lover and deliver him from death, how can she help others? So it is disgraceful that a goddess should lament and weep and take delight in depraved men.
Again they introduce Kore and say that she is a goddess, and she was stolen away by Pluto, and could not help herself. If then she is a goddess and was unable to help herself how will she find means to help others? For a god who is stolen away is very powerless.
All this, then, O King, have the Greeks brought forward concerning their gods, and they have invented and declared it concerning them. And hence all men received an impulse to work all profanity and all defilements, and hereby the whole earth was corrupted.
XII. The Egyptians, moreover, because they are more base and stupid than every people that is on the earth, have themselves erred more than all. For the deities (or religion) of the Barbarians and the Greeks did not suffice for them, but they introduced some also of the nature of the animals, and said thereof that they were gods, and likewise of creeping things which are found on the dry land and in the waters. And of plants and herbs, they said that some of them were gods. And they were corrupted by every kind of delusion and defilement more than every people that is on the earth. From ancient times they worshipped Isis, and they say that she is a goddess whose husband was Osiris her brother. And when Osiris was killed by Typhon his brother, Isis fled with Horos her son to Byblus in Syria and was there for a certain time till her son was grown. And he contended with Typhon his uncle and killed him. And then Isis returned and went about with Horos her son and sought for the dead body of Osiris her lord, bitterly lamenting his death. If then Isis be a goddess, and could not help Osiris her brother and lord, how can she help another? But it is impossible that a divine nature should be afraid, and flee for safety, or should weep and wail; or else it is very miserable.
And of Osiris also they say that he is a serviceable god. And he was killed by Typhon and was unable to help himself. But it is well known that this cannot be asserted of divinity. And further, they say of his brother Typhon that he is a god, who killed his brother and was killed by his brother's son and by his bride, being unable to help himself. And how, pray, is he a god who does not save himself?
As the Egyptians, then, were more stupid than the rest of the nations, these and such like gods did not suffice for them. Nay, but they even apply the name of gods to animals in which there is no soul at all. For some of them worship the sheep and others the calf; and some the pig and others the shad fish; and some the crocodile and the hawk and the fish and the ibis and the vulture and the eagle and the raven. Some of them worship the cat, and others the turbot-fish, some the dog, some the adder, and some the asp, and others the lion; and others the garlic and onions and thorns, and others the tiger and other such things. And the poor creatures do not see that all these things are nothing, although they daily witness their gods being eaten and consumed by men and also by their fellows; while some of them are cremated, and some die and decay and become dust, without their observing that they perish in many ways. So the Egyptians have not observed that such things which are not equal to their own deliverance, are not gods. And if, forsooth, they are weak in the case of their own deliverance, whence have they power to help in the case of the deliverance of their worshippers? Great then is the error into which the Egyptians wandered;--greater, indeed than that of any people which is upon the face of the earth.
XIII. But it is a marvel, O King, with regard to the Greeks, who surpass all other peoples in their manner of life and reasoning, how they have gone astray after dead idols and lifeless images. And yet they see their gods in the hands of their artificers being sawn out, and planed and docked, and hacked short, and charred, and ornamented, and being altered by them in every kind of way. And when they grow old and are worn away through lapse of time, and when they are molten and crushed to powder, how, I wonder, did they not perceive concerning them, that they are not gods? And as for those who did not find deliverance for themselves, how can they serve the distress of men?
But even the writers and philosophers among them have wrongly alleged that the gods are such as are made in honor of God Almighty. And they err in seeking to liken (them) to God whom man has not at any time seen nor can see unto what He is like. Herein, too (they err) in asserting of deity that any such thing as deficiency can be present to it; as when they say that He receives sacrifice and requires burnt-offering and libation and immolations of men, and temples. But God is not in need, and none of these things is necessary to Him, and it is clear that men err in these things they imagine.
Further, their writers and their philosophers represent and declare that the nature of all their gods is one. And they have not apprehended God our Lord who while He is one, is in all. They err, therefore. For if the body of a man while it is many in its parts is not in dread, one member of another, but, since it is a united body, wholly agrees with itself; even so also God is one in His nature. A single essence is proper to Him since He is uniform in His nature and His essence, and He is not afraid of Himself. If then the nature of the gods is one, it is not proper that a god should either pursue or slay or harm a god. If then gods be pursued and wounded by gods, and some be kidnapped and some struck dead by lightning, it is obvious that the nature of their gods is not one. And hence it is known, O King, that it is a mistake when they reckon and bring the natures of their gods under a single nature. If then it becomes us to admire a god which is seen and does not see, how much more praiseworthy is it that one should believe in nature which is invisible and all-seeing? And if further, it is fitting that one should approve the handiworks of a craftsman, how much more is it fitting that one should glorify the Creator of the craftsman?
For behold! when the Greeks made laws they did not perceive that by their laws they condemn their gods. For if their laws are righteous, their gods are unrighteous, since they transgressed the law in killing one another, and practicing sorcery, and committing adultery, and in robbing and stealing, and in lying with males, and by their other practices as well. For if their gods were right in doing all these things as they are described, then the laws of the Greeks are unrighteous in not being made according to the will of their gods. And in that case, the whole world is gone astray.
For the narratives about their gods are some of them myths, and some of them nature-poems (lit: natural--fusikai), and some are hymns and elegies. The hymns indeed and elegies are empty words and noise. But these nature-poems, even if they be made as they say, still those are not gods who do such things and suffer and endure such things. And those myths are shallow tales with no depth whatever in them.
XIV. Let us come now, O King, to the history of the Jews also, and see what opinion they have as to God. The Jews then say that God is one, the Creator of all, and omnipotent; and that it is not right that any other should be worshipped except this God alone. And herein they appear to approach the truth more than all the nations, especially in that they worship God and not His works. And they imitate God by the philanthropy which prevails among them; for they have compassion on the poor, and they release the captives, and bury the dead, and do such things as these, which are acceptable before God and well-pleasing also to men,--which (customs) they have received from their forefathers.
Nevertheless, they too erred from true knowledge. And in their imagination, they conceive that it is God they serve; whereas by their mode of observance it is to the angels and not to God that their service is rendered:--as when they celebrate sabbaths and the beginning of the months, and feasts of unleavened bread, and a great fast; and fasting and circumcision and the purification of meats, which things, however, they do not observe perfectly.
XV. But the Christians, O King, while they went about and made search, have found the truth; and as we learned from their writings, they have come nearer to truth and genuine knowledge than the rest of the nations. For they know and trust in God, the Creator of heaven and of earth, in whom and from whom are all things, to whom there is no other god as a companion, from whom they received commandments which they engraved upon their minds and observe in hope and expectation of the world which is to come. Wherefore they do not commit adultery nor fornication, nor bear false witness, nor embezzle what is held in pledge, nor covet what is not theirs. They honor father and mother, and show kindness to those near to them; and whenever they are judges, they judge uprightly. They do not worship idols (made) in the image of man; and whatsoever they would not that others should do unto them, they do not to others, and of the food which is consecrated to idols they do not eat, for they are pure. And their oppressors they appease (lit: comfort) and make them their friends; they do good to their enemies; and their women, O King, are pure as virgins, and their daughters are modest; and their men keep themselves from every unlawful union and from all uncleanness, in the hope of a recompense to come in the other world. Further, if one or other of them have bondmen and bondwomen or children, through love towards them they persuade them to become Christians, and when they have done so, they call them brethren without distinction. They do not worship strange gods, and they go their way in all modesty and cheerfulness. Falsehood is not found among them, and they love one another, and from widows, they do not turn away their esteem, and they deliver the orphan from him who treats him harshly. And he, who has, gives to him who has not, without boasting. And when they see a stranger, they take him into their homes and rejoice over him as a very brother; for they do not call them brethren after the flesh, but brethren after the spirit and in God. And whenever one of their poor passes from the world, each one of them according to his ability gives heed to him and carefully sees to his burial. And if they hear that one of their number is imprisoned or afflicted on account of the name of their Messiah, all of them anxiously minister to his necessity, and if it is possible to redeem him they set him free. And if there is among them any that is poor and needy, and if they have no spare food, they fast two or three days in order to supply to the needy their lack of food. They observe the precepts of their Messiah with much care, living justly and soberly as the Lord their God commanded them. Every morning and every hour they give thanks and praise to God for His loving-kindnesses toward them; and for their food and their drink they offer thanksgiving to Him. And if any righteous man among them passes from the world, they rejoice and offer thanks to God; and they escort his body as if he were setting out from one place to another near. And when a child has been born to one of them, they give thanks to God; and if moreover, it happens to die in childhood, they give thanks to God the more, as for one who has passed through the world without sins. And further, if they see that any one of them dies in his ungodliness or in his sins, for him they grieve bitterly, and sorrow as for one who goes to meet his doom.
XVI. Such, O King, is the commandment of the law of the Christians, and such is their manner of life. As men who know God, they ask from Him petitions which are fitting for Him to grant and for them to receive. And thus they employ their whole lifetime. And since they know the loving-kindnesses of God toward them, behold! for their sake the glorious things which are in the world flow forth to view. And verily, they are those who found the truth when they went about and made a search for it; and from what we considered, we learned that they alone come near to a knowledge of the truth. And they do not proclaim in the ears of the multitude the kind deeds they do, but are careful that no one should notice them, and they conceal their giving just as he who finds a treasure and conceals it. And they strive to be righteous as those who expect to behold their Messiah and to receive from Him with great glory the promises made concerning them. And as for their words and their precepts, O King, and their glorying in their worship, and the hope of earning according to the work of each one of them their recompense which they look for in another world,-you may learn about these from their writings. It is enough for us to have shortly informed your Majesty concerning the conduct and the truth of the Christians. For great indeed, and wonderful is their doctrine to him who will search into it and reflect upon it. And verily, this is a new people, and there is something divine (lit: "a divine admixture") in the midst of them.
Take, then, their writings, and read therein, and lo! you will find that I have not put forth these things on my own authority, nor spoken thus as their advocate, but since I read in their writings I was fully assured of these things as also of things which are to come. And for this reason, I was constrained to declare the truth to such as care for it and seek the world to come. And to me there is no doubt but that the earth abides through the supplication of the Christians. But the rest of the nations err and cause an error in wallowing before the elements of the world since beyond these their mental vision will not pass. And they search about as if in darkness because they will not recognize the truth; and like drunken men, they reel and jostle one another and fall.
XVII. Thus far, O King, I have spoken; for concerning that which remains, as is said above, there are found in their other writings things which are hard to utter and difficult for one to narrate,--which are not only spoken in words but also wrought out in deeds.
Now the Greeks, O King, as they follow base practices in intercourse with males, and a mother and a sister and a daughter, impute their monstrous impurity in turn to the Christians. But the Christians are just and good, and the truth is set before their eyes, and their spirit is long-suffering; and, therefore, though they know the error of these (the Greeks), and are persecuted by them, they bear and endure it; and for the most part they have compassion on them, as men who are destitute of knowledge. And on their side, they offer a prayer that these may repent of their error; and when it happens that one of them has repented, he is ashamed before the Christians of the works which were done by him; and he makes confession to God, saying, I did these things in ignorance. And he purifies his heart, and his sins are forgiven him, because he committed them in ignorance in the former time, when he used to blaspheme and speak evil of the true knowledge of the Christians. And assuredly the race of the Christians is more blessed than all the men who are upon the face of the earth.
Henceforth let the tongues of those who utter vanity and harass the Christians be silent; and hereafter let them speak the truth. For it is of serious consequence to them that they should worship the true God rather than worship a senseless sound. And verily whatever is spoken in the mouth of the Christians is of God; and their doctrine is the gateway of light. Wherefore let all who are without the knowledge of God draw near thereto; and they will receive incorruptible words, which are from all time and from eternity. So shall they appear before the awful judgment which through Jesus the Messiah is destined to come upon the whole human race.
The Apology of Aristides the Philosopher is finished.
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8
FOLLOW the MONEY : Pastor Russell makes it rain
by Terry inpastor russell: follow the money.
charles t. russell, age of 13, joined the congregational church (dumped presbyterian).. he went (like girl scouts are sent out with cookies to sell) door to door to raise money for the church.. russell hated fundraising.
he had to ask poor people to part with their money.
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Terry
There may be a certain irony to the initial policy of Russell that no collections be taken because the Lord would provide - OR - if the money dried up, it would prove the Lord was NOT behind the work.
It has come to that by now.
Selling off Kingdom Halls and begging for change on J-Dub dot Org is Russell's redline event: the Lord is not behind the work.
Time to turn out the lights and go back to your local churches. -
8
FOLLOW the MONEY : Pastor Russell makes it rain
by Terry inpastor russell: follow the money.
charles t. russell, age of 13, joined the congregational church (dumped presbyterian).. he went (like girl scouts are sent out with cookies to sell) door to door to raise money for the church.. russell hated fundraising.
he had to ask poor people to part with their money.
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Terry
PASTOR RUSSELL: follow the money
Charles T. Russell, age of 13, joined the Congregational church (dumped Presbyterian).
He went (like Girl Scouts are sent out with cookies to sell) door to door to RAISE MONEY for the Church.
Russell hated fundraising. He had to ask poor people to part with their money. He said he felt he was "fleecing the flock."
Russell sold 5 men's clothing stores for: $6,521,739.13 **
$300,000 of 1876 dollars would be worth:$6,521,739.13 in 2014
http://www.davemanuel.com/inflation-calculator.php?
**http://www.pastor-russell.com/misc/bio.html" Charles immediately, and in great haste, sold out his five clothing stores and all his other business interests to the tune of 300,000 dollars."
What were Russell's actual personal goals concerning money?
Russell also drew on his own experience when he wrote of the quest for riches. If one’s goal was money, he wrote, one should “try to be a millionaire.” He devoted “all his might” to business ventures, and soon other stores were opened. If an article he wrote in 1913 is biographical, his goal was to become rich. He prayed to God for wealth, “telling him that we knew what to do with the money, and how to use it in his work."
It has been said of Russel's business acumen:
His friends tend to overstate it; his enemies seek in his business activity signs of turpitude. Court testimony elicited an estimated net worth in 1879 of “about $60,000.” This was not as cash in hand but the estimated worth of his properties and cash. In court testimony, Russell also suggested that he was worth fifty thousand dollars at the time his wife left him in 1897. A rating agency listed his creditworthiness as one hundred fifty thousand dollars at the same time.
******In 1915 William H. Bradford, an elder in the Twin Cities (St. Paul – Minneapolis) Ecclesia, wrote:
C. T. Russell commenced business for himself while yet a boy and with very little capital. When he was eighteen he owned a store, when he was twenty-four he owned five stores and was worth three hundred thousand dollars, and this at an age when John D. Rockefeller had hardly made a start, and J. P. Morgan, with his inherited capital, had but little. If C. T. Russell had devoted his life to business it is easy to guess that John D. would not now be the richest man in the world nor J. P. Morgan has been the prince of financiers.
In Russell's own words:
"Under what seemed to be a providential leading, I decided to invest with others in some oil property – oil wells. I chose this business because it seemed to be profitable and because it would require little or no time and personal attention; for others, interested in looking out for their own interests, necessarily looked out for mine also. This judgment has, on the whole, proved correct – several coins having been taken from this fish’s mouth for our support and the Lord’s cause."____________________________________________________________
He poured his money into publishing End Times writings. He spent the family fortune like a drunken sailor on his favorite topics.
If somebody wrote something Russell agreed with he'd pay for the publishing.
If that somebody disagreed with Russell, he'd pull funding.
Russell ostensively fell in love with his own writings to the exclusion of everybody else (including his wife) and began writing 7 ambitious volumes.
He wanted to set everybody straight.
1886 the money dried up due to the immense amount of money spent in printing and distributing the first three publications.
He was spending about a million dollars a year!
GUESS WHAT YEAR Russell tried to sell his books in bookstores? 1886.
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By 1897, nearly one million Dawns had been distributed, largely by the colporteurs. DOOR-TO-DOOR BOOK SALESMEN. After 1931, the term “colporteur” was replaced by “pioneer.”
Pastor Russell's volumes were sold at about $2 a set or $2 of 1900 dollars would be worth: $55.00 in2014
Russell also turned to write sermons as a newspaper columnist and built up a readership of about fifteen million people.
Having built a customer base (faithful readers) Russell went on tour giving sermons IN PERSON becoming one of the most recognized and 'famous' ministers in the world, like Joel Osteen or Joyce Meyers today.
Russell had no problems accepting private donations!
Pastor Russell had made a name for himself by refusing to take collections during meetings.
The slogan "Seats Free - No Collections" angered many clergymen because it was a slam on the traditional collection plate process.
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The Watch Tower turned to advertise miraculous beans as a free giveaway and then switched to Miracle Wheat for a dollar.
In 1911, the market price for wheat was 59 cents to $1 a bushel. In Charles Taze Russell's Hicks Street Tabernacle, "miracle wheat" was being sold for $60 a bushel, or $1 a pound.
(The beans and wheat had been DONATED to Russell's ministry)
$1 of 1911 dollars would be worth: $24.39 in2014
Miracle Wheat brought in $1,800 of 1911 dollars would be worth:$43,902.44 in 2014
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1897: When his wife Maria petitioned the court for a LEGAL SEPARATION (not a divorce) it was granted with Alimony.
Russell transferred his funds into the WTS account and strung Maria's alimony out torturously to make her dependant and to teach her a lesson.
Russell was litigious if he thought he could win a lawsuit.
Russell’s businesses became an issue in 1911 when the Brooklyn Eagle made outrageous claims. The mere fact that he continued to make money (all or most of which was used for the benefit of the Watch Tower Society), was used to imply fraud. Russell sued the Eagle and lost.The Washington Post partially quoted Maria's testimony about his claim "he floated from woman to woman like a jellyfish."
Russell sued and was awarded one dollar in damages. But--he relentlessly pursued an appeal making himself a legal nuisance and the case was settled for $15,000. $15,000 of 1915 dollars would be worth:$348,837.21 in 2014
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http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/documents/1915_A_Great_Battle_in_the_Ecclesiastical_Heavens.pdf
Russell's attorney was Judge Rutherford, who wrote a Great Battle in the Ecclesiastical Heavens defending Russell's reputation.
"This is a non-stock corporation; it pays no dividends, no salaries, and no one has ever, as its books clearly show, reaped any financial benefit therefrom. It is supported entirely by voluntary contributions made by those who are interested in the promulgation of Bible Truths. Its work is exclusively religious.
For each contribution of $10.00, the contributor is entitled to one voting share. While there are nearly two hundred thousand shares, and it would be an easy matter to elect some other man as president, there never has been cast a vote against Pastor Russell."
Ten dollars times two-hundred thousand shares=$2,000.000 $2,000,000 of 1915 dollars would be worth:$46,511,627.91 in 2014
Bingo! (Note: 1913 Federal Income Tax was passed into law.)
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NINE MILLION people saw the PHOTO DRAMA of CREATION (a slide show) presented to audiences around the world. Stop and consider:
No collection plate was passed--however--DONATIONS were accepted. (A donation box in plain sight.)
On September 23, 1912, the Eagle ran a cartoon called "Easy Money Puzzle."
Russell sued the Eagle for libel, demanding $100,000 in damages for "injury to his reputation, good name, fame, and standing."
The case was brought before Justice Charles H. Kelby and a jury in the Kings County Supreme Court.
One of the juicier allegations made against the Watch Tower Society was that it had coerced an insane man, Hope Hay, into contributing $10,000 to its funds. William E. Van Amburgh, secretary-treasurer of' the Watch Tower Society, acknowledged that Mr. Hay was in an "insane asylum" and that the Watch Tower Society was footing his bills, but denied that Mr. Hay had not given the money of his own free will.
The jury of twelve men was out for less than forty-five minutes before it returned a verdict of not guilty in the Eagle's favor.
This is just a historical snapshot of how money and the Watch Tower had their beginnings.
To say Russell never became a millionaire is to miss the point.
$60,000 of 1879 dollars would be worth: $1,395,348.84 in 2014
$50,000 of 1897 dollars would be worth: $1,388,888.89 in 2014
A rating agency listed his creditworthiness as one hundred fifty thousand dollars at the same time.
$150,000 of 1897 dollars would be worth: $4,166,666.67 in 2014
Rutherford claimed that “when Pastor Russell closed out his business, many years ago, he had upwards of a quarter of a million dollars.”
$250,000 of 1897 dollars would be worth: $6,944,444.44 in 2014
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However, that is the least remarkable thing about the career of Pastor Russell. With all this phenomenal talent for business, he gave it all up to go center stage in the most public ministry of his era.
WAS IT WORTH IT? (We must ask).Ask yourself what Russell produced for the good of mankind?
Let us compare apples to apples.
Both Russell and Andrew Carnegie started pretty much on the same turf.
Let us compare the legacy of these two men upon the world.
The Carnegie Corporation of New York
By 1911, Carnegie had given away over $43 million for libraries and close to $110 million for other causes. He formed the Carnegie Corporation of New York to give away the $150 million that remained. The Carnegie Corporation's mandate was to "promote the advancement and diffusion of knowledge and understanding." Since then, it has given large grants to the other Carnegie trusts as well as universities, colleges, schools, and educational entities--including public television's "Sesame Street."
The Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
Founded in 1910 with $10 million from Carnegie, the Endowment is the oldest public policy institution in the United States concentrating on issues of war and peace. Over the years, it has funded conferences and publications on major policy issues and funding the work of researchers such as Sigmund Freud and Gunnar Myrdal.The Carnegie Institution of Washington
Though encouraged to finance a national university, Carnegie feared that such an endeavor might weaken existing schools. Instead, he chose in 1901 to create a national research institute that would be a resource for all universities. With Theodore Roosevelt's support, Carnegie endowed the Institution with $10 million, adding $2 million in 1909 and another $10 million in 1911. Since then scientists on the Institution's payroll have, among other accomplishments:- Discovered the expansion of the universe
- Proved DNA is the genetic material
- Devised applications as varied as radar and hybrid corn
- Opened Mayan ruins in Central America
The Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching
Founded by Carnegie in 1905 to provide pensions for teachers, the foundation established the first widespread educational standards for the nation's colleges and universities. In addition, the foundation developed standardized, machine-scored tests, a function that merged into the Educational Testing Service in 1947. Because the foundation only gave money to secular schools, it was also responsible for the decision of many colleges to drop their religious affiliations.
The Carnegie Hero Funds
These international organizations continue to give medals and money to those who are injured in an attempt to "preserve and rescue their fellows." Since 1904, over $20 million has been awarded to these "heroes of peace."
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So?
Conclusions are to be made by all who knew him, loved or hated him - or even heard of C.T. Russell and it distills into a puddle of controversy.
The road to Hell is paved with "good intentions."
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24
This Discussion Board
by minimus inwhen you look back the last 20 years , what a transformation!
back then witnesses were putting out poetry and most were singing the praises of the organization.
slowly and gradually, negative thoughts were allowed to be expressed about doctrines, elders and congregation life.
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Terry
Diogenesister :Terry, did you draw that? If so I really like it. I’m really into woodcut prints and it kind of reminds me of those.
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Not one of mine.
I am addicted to LINOCUTS which are prints made by taking a piece of linoleum and carving out an image (backward) and rolling ink over the surface and laying paper on top (then pressing it).
I've done woodcuts and they impute more of a feeling of accomplishment.
I usually set fire to the wood and then put out the flames, then scrub the char off for a rugged feeling. I hit it with a chain too to impart a stressed look.
But you know all that if you're into it.
