Posts by Confession

13

Calling All Ex Witnesses

by FiveShadows in

jw
friends

it's me again...most of you don't remember me, but i am in need of personal experiences and comments that you may help me out with.

i met someone online who has apparently turned out to be a good associate of mine.

however, she has informed me that though she has her own beliefs and hates religion itself, she does like to get different perspectives on what people believe.

Talking to one of Jehovah's Witnesses? I'm sure he or she is very nice. Most are, in my opinion. I have a great deal of love for many, many Jehovah's Witnesses. In fact more than thirty members of my family are in the organization, since our family has a long history in it for four generations and more than sixty years.

Why do I love Jehovah's Witnesses? They look forward to a time when the earth will be a paradise and all humans will then live in perfection and happiness. This common hope can inspire love and a special kind of unity. They're not perfect, and you'll see this from time to time, but who is perfect, right?

As you continue your association with this Jehovah's Witness, there are a few things I'd like you to know.

1) The Watchtower Society, the official agency in charge of the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, encourages young ones to be baptized quite young; thirteen or fourteen years of age.

2) While the baptism oaths used to require those getting baptized to acknowledge God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, in 1985 it was changed to require those getting baptized to acknowledge the Watchtower Society as "God's spirit-directed organization."

3) Being a baptized Jehovah's Witness requires you to recognize as God's sole channel of communication to humans - only those in association with the Watchtower Society. Although they may not mention it at first, they believe that unless you are baptized as one of Jehovah's Witnesses--and have a full share in their meetings and field service activity--you will die at the soon-to-come Armageddon, along with everyone else on earth who has not done these things.

4) If you become baptized and later decide you don't necessarily recognize those in association with the Watchtower Society as God's only channel of communication--and admit as much to others--you will almost surely be disfellowshiped and branded a wicked apostate, not even worthy of prayers. This means being shunned and vilified by all those--closest friends, family members, yes even your children--who are Jehovah's Witnesses. You will be identified as one of "The Evil Slave Class."

5) Trying to reason with the elders, your friends or family members that you are not deserving of such treatment is quite futile. Why? Because any Jehovah's Witness who does not submit to the enforced shunning is himself subject to being disfellowshiped and shunned if anyone finds out. This practice creates an environment in which people are fearful of anything the Watchtower Society has condemned, and in which people are reverse-incentivized to support anything they say.

6) If these things were to happen to you, during your judicial hearing you will be denied most of the rights generally afforded people in any sort of court. You are not given the right to have someone represent you, nor even the right to have witnesses of your choosing present. There will be no recording nor transcript of the proceedings. While they make sure there are three or more elders present to represent the Watchtower Society's interests, you are allowed no one to represent yours. You have no record of the hearing, no representation, no witnesses of your own; you have no concrete way to demonstrate that you were mistreated or that things weren't handled properly. Only your word (one person) against theirs (three persons.)

If, like me, you at some point become one of Jehovah's Witnesses, many wonderful things will be placed before you. Lots of literature containing beautiful artist's renderings of life on a paradise earth. Many experiences of how other people all over the world are becoming Jehovah's Witnesses. Frequent public talks that demonstrate how correct the Watchtower Society is in its increasing light regarding God's truth. You will be encouraged to read the Bible--along with publications from the Watchtower Society. And you'll find that "studying the Bible," while quite time-consuming, is not very difficult since it amounts to reading Watchtower publications and answering the accompanying, published questions from those corresponding paragraphs.

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses, you will frequently be told not to listen to those who disagree with the teachings of the Watchtower Society. They will spend less time teaching you about why these opposers are wrong--and more time sinply warning you not to pay attention. Note the following excerpt taken from the Watchtower magazine...

*** w86 3/15 p. 12 ?Do Not Be Quickly Shaken From Your Reason? ***

Now, what will you do if you are confronted with apostate teaching, subtle reasonings claiming that what you believe as one of Jehovahs Witnesses is not the truth? For example, what will you do if you receive a letter or some literature, open it, and see right away that it is from an apostate? Will curiosity cause you to read it, just to see what he has to say? You may even reason: **It wont affect me; Im too strong in the truth. And, besides, if we have the truth, we have nothing to fear. The truth will stand the test.** In thinking this way, some have fed their minds upon apostate reasoning and have fallen prey to serious questioning and doubt. (Compare James 1:5-8.)

You may find the logic circular and unsatisfying at first. Consider...

"This is Gods true organization."

"If so, why be afraid of hearing out an opposer?"

"Because they might lead you away from Gods true organization."

"But what if the opposers are right?"

"They cant be right since this is Gods true organization."

"But shouldnt such an organization withstand honest-hearted scrutiny?"

"Its thinking like that that has led many away from Gods true organization."

But if you give it time, in the presence of others who have accepted the organization as God's only true channel, you may find it becomes easier and easier to believe as they do. You may come to accept what they have: that there is no truth nor faith in God apart from faith in the Watchtower Society.

Although nearly all of my family members are Jehovah's Witnesses and although I myself served as an elder in the congregation, I now recognize that the organization is not what it purports to be. While there are many fine and wonderful people within it, there are many false and troubling things too. Things that cannot be excused as the simple shortcomings of imperfect men. They amount to gross deception, evil manipulation and idolatry.

These things are most difficult to see for those immersed in the culture surrounding the organization, who endeavor to separate themselves from all others, associating almost exclusively with one another. They are things one cannot comprehend without a willingness to give the organization a clear-minded, honest-hearted, objective investigation. Because the Watchtower Society threatens those who dissent with a branding of "apostate" and shunning, there is much fear in ones conducting such an investigation. The reasoning encouraged by the Watchtower Society requires the dogmatic rejection of any possibility that "what you believe as one of Jehovahs Witnesses is not the truth." I consider this out of harmony with the scriptures.

(2 Corinthians 13:5) Keep testing whether YOU are in the faith, keep proving what YOU yourselves are. Or do YOU not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with YOU?

This month I will be 39 years old. I have only come into my present understanding of this organization in the last year. None of my Witness friends or family members--including my seventeen year old daughter--know how I feel. I am presently struggling with the most difficult decision I've ever had to make in my life. Either I voice my position and be considered demonized by my entire family along with the only community of friends I've known my whole life, being shunned as an evil enemy. Or living a lie.

Unlike the Watchtower Society, I will not tell you to run from what I believe to be wrong. I want you to understand it. Listen to them. Listen closely. But don't ever let them scare you from considering ALL the information. And don't ever let them tell you not to use the mind God gave you--in favor of zombie-like submission to a group of men. Men whose position as God's only channel they preserve by the threat of shunning upon those who dare suggest the emperor may have no clothes.

I don't know what the coming months hold for me. Please pray for me. I'll be praying for you.

18

At least 3 years...

by Confession in

for some time now i've been searching the wts' publications for a policy that i clearly remember from my time as an elder.

but i just can't find it.

it was the one which stated that if someone--even a congregation servant--came forward and confessed to wrongdoing, there would not have to be a judicial committee, nor would a servant even need to lose his privileges--if at least three years had passed and the individual had put the sin behind him/her.

Confession

I specifically remember seeing in writing an explanation that used the example of a brother who had...

...lapsed into drunkenness one night.

The explanation they gave for not calling together a Judicial Committee was that 3 years had passed and his life had shown that Jehovah had forgiven him. That was what got me: in taking this position, they admitted that his forgiveness had nothing to do with confessing to elders. He had committed a sin, rejected the course, and been forgiven by God--all before he said anything to a man.

18

At least 3 years...

by Confession in

for some time now i've been searching the wts' publications for a policy that i clearly remember from my time as an elder.

but i just can't find it.

it was the one which stated that if someone--even a congregation servant--came forward and confessed to wrongdoing, there would not have to be a judicial committee, nor would a servant even need to lose his privileges--if at least three years had passed and the individual had put the sin behind him/her.

Confession

Honestly, TJ, I don't think a caring elder is a hard thing to find. The local elders are largely pawns in this game. Just like the rank and file witnesses, they truly believe that the men in Brooklyn are conveying light from God. Theyve just been duped by the WTS. And their fear is so great that theyll do something out of harmony with the WTS that their personal consciences and common sense have been replaced with the Societys legalism. Granted there are a number of (as I call them) Pharisaical elders, but most fit the description Ray Franz refers to in In Search of Christian Freedom, page 122...

Does this imply that the men in positions of authority within the organization are all power-hungry, dictatorial persons? I certainly do not view them that way, and on the basis of personal experience I am satisfied that many are not. In the early centuries, there were men who, like the wolves of whom Paul warned, sought to have people follow them as leaders, and exalted human authority to attain this. However, there were doubtless other professed Christian men who, faced with frustrating situations, seeing people being swayed by what they viewed as erroneous teachings, went along with the buildup of human authority under the false idea that the end justified the means, and thus they gave in to the lure of authority. The same influences operate in our times.

The thing that surprised me was that other elders generally didn't want to talk about this subject. When I brought it up in the Judicial Committee, they acted as if this were a moot point; that the long-standing nature of this policy was proof enough for them, and even if this brother had fallen under a wrong impression, that was neither here nor there. They could only cite scriptures about not covering over ones transgressions. Then they would stare at me, as if they had just proven the point. When I would acknowledge that the scriptures referred to not covering over sins in the sight of God Himself, they would pause with a kind of deer-in-headlights look, and just remind me that you can't fool Jehovah. Any place in which the scriptures spoke of confession to Jehovah, they would simply equate it with confession to elders. It was startlingly zombie-like.

18

At least 3 years...

by Confession in

for some time now i've been searching the wts' publications for a policy that i clearly remember from my time as an elder.

but i just can't find it.

it was the one which stated that if someone--even a congregation servant--came forward and confessed to wrongdoing, there would not have to be a judicial committee, nor would a servant even need to lose his privileges--if at least three years had passed and the individual had put the sin behind him/her.

Confession

Trust me: this has been around a lot longer than that. I was an elder from '95 to '98, the KM tjkmo referenced was from 1972.

18

At least 3 years...

by Confession in

for some time now i've been searching the wts' publications for a policy that i clearly remember from my time as an elder.

but i just can't find it.

it was the one which stated that if someone--even a congregation servant--came forward and confessed to wrongdoing, there would not have to be a judicial committee, nor would a servant even need to lose his privileges--if at least three years had passed and the individual had put the sin behind him/her.

Confession

Thanks, TJKMO! In fact, I believe I did find that Question Box before, but again Im confused. When I refer to the OM book (1983) page 170, it makes no reference whatsoever to such a policy. Was this a previous edition of the OM book?

The question of confession was actually the flashpoint that has assisted in my awakening about this organization. It all began when I was serving as chairman of an expanded 5-member Judicial Committee, hearing the case of a fellow elder whod been charged with pedophilia. Of course I now recognize that those accused of this crime often refuse to confess, but at the time I was troubled by it. I asked the committee to consider all the possible reasons why he wouldnt confess other than that he simply didnt want to face the music. The possibility occurred to me that this man didnt believe he had to confess to men, having perhaps already confessed to Jehovah. I decided to do the research needed to demonstrate that it was an obligation and thus to restore my brother.

Problem: I simply couldnt find the scriptural support for such a teaching. No matter how many times I read James 5:14-16, I just couldnt see it as describing the situation existing in JW congregations in which a person sinning was obligated to go to the elders. It seemed merely to be describing the way a person who was suffering could receive help and encouragement from others. The presumed response from a Pharisaical elder might be?

Oh yes, we ARE going to help you! Just come to us and we will refresh you! We will build you up! Yes, its true that we will do so by pulling out legal pads, recording your every word, subjecting your sorry, wicked ass to an onslaught of prying questions, consulting our secret, legalistic Elder Book, and of course unless you reverently kowtow to us we will nail you quicker than you can say Fred Franz. But demonizing you and having you shunned by your whole family and the entire community of friends you have known since birth might just be the refreshment you need!

Okay, so what are all the other scriptures that suggest such a policy? What? They dont exist? Wait a minute! I remember very clearly my own mother telling me when I was seventeen that Unless you confess to the elders, Jehovah wont forgive you. Wow! Phantom Memory! You know what else I recall about my mothers saying that to me? That when she was talking to me she was looking me straight in the eye, but when she uttered the above comment, she looked away and down for several seconds. Oh my gosh! Is it possible that Mom herself was uncomfortable about this Watchtower policy on confession?

All right, now what? So I go to the WTS? publications. Im a loyal subject, putting full faith in this organization as being the sole channel of communication from Almighty God. Lets see what they say on the subject. Why not start with the book that JWs refer to more than any other: Reasoning from the Scriptures. Most of us even have it bound together with our Bibles. Under Confession if soundly lambastes the Catholic church for its policy of confession and absolution.

When a person sins against God
Matt. 6:6-12: When you pray, go into your private room and, after shutting your door, pray to your Father who is in secret . . . Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified . . . and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
Ps. 32:5: My sin I finally confessed to you [God], and my error I did not cover. I said: I shall make confession over my transgressions to Jehovah. And you yourself pardoned the error of my sins.

The italics are the Watchtower Societys--not mine. They seem to suggest that confession is something we do to Jehovah as opposed to men. In referring to James 5:14-16, it is preceded by the following heading When Someone Becomes Involved in Serious Wrongdoing and Wants Spiritual Help Huh? So its not really an obligation to confess then? Its just there if you want it? An option? Says the Pharisee...

Well yes, only if you want the help. Nothing legalistic or authoritarian here. Your decision. (pause) But of course if you dont want the help we will have no choice but to view you as wicked and wont hesitate to slam you like the bald-headed stepchild that you are. (smile) So do you want the help?

Heres what Insight on the Scriptures has to say about confession...

Confessing sins to one another. The disciple James counsels: Openly confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may get healed.? (Jas 5:16) Such confession is not because any human serves as helper [advocate, RS] for man with God, since Christ alone fills that role by virtue of his propitiatory sacrifice. (1Jo 2:1, 2) Humans, of themselves, cannot actually right the wrong toward God, on their own behalf or on behalf of others, being unable to provide the needed atonement. (Ps 49:7, 8) However, Christians can help one another, and their prayers on behalf of their brothers, while not having an effect on Gods application of justice (since Christs ransom alone serves to bring remission of sins), do count with God in petitioning his giving needed help and strength to the one who has sinned and is seeking aid.

Now from the Watchtower...

*** w97 12/1 p. 14 Jehovah, a God Ready to Forgive? ***
Despite what mistakes you may have made, if you have truly repented, taken steps to right the wrong, and earnestly prayed for Jehovahs forgiveness on the basis of Jesus shed blood, you can have full confidence that the words of 1 John 1:9 apply to you: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous so as to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So, if you read carefully, they DO get it. Confession IS something the scriptures teach that we do to God, and not man. But since they have assumed authority on earth, they apparently believe they can counteract the scriptures, requiring the flock to confess to them or face their wrath.

18

At least 3 years...

by Confession in

for some time now i've been searching the wts' publications for a policy that i clearly remember from my time as an elder.

but i just can't find it.

it was the one which stated that if someone--even a congregation servant--came forward and confessed to wrongdoing, there would not have to be a judicial committee, nor would a servant even need to lose his privileges--if at least three years had passed and the individual had put the sin behind him/her.

Confession

For some time now I've been searching the WTS' publications for a policy that I clearly remember from my time as an elder. But I just can't find it. It was the one which stated that if someone--even a congregation servant--came forward and confessed to wrongdoing, there would not have to be a Judicial Committee, nor would a servant even need to lose his privileges--if at least three years had passed and the individual had put the sin behind him/her. I've not been able to find it in "Pay Attention to Yourselves," the OM book--anywhere. Was this a letter to elders? Who knows where it is?

To me, it is important to demonstrating that the WTS themselves understand that confession (yes, my pet issue) to congregation elders is, in fact, NOT necessary to receiving Jehovah's forgiveness. In that policy, I recall they'd said something to the effect that, 'from all appearances it is evident that Jehovah had forgiven the erring one.' It clearly shows that, on some level, they recognize that a person can sin and be forgiven by God--without having confessed to elders. If you read very closely, MANY of their publications reveal the same principle, BUT they of course reserve the right to disfellowship you, in part, for lack of confession--or even lack of a speedy confession. Hypocrites!

22

Just can't get this out of my head

by jt stumbler in

being recently self-dissassociated, i cannot get out of my head something that happened to me more than 20 years ago.

having studied much in my youth, and being the submarine witness that i was, i married at 19 and began my "worldly coarse".

i just knew it was the "truth".

Confession

This brings up something I used to take note of... I was not what you might call a "charismatic JW." While I never wanted to deny the experiences others attributed to God, I was hesitant to automatically conclude that He was directly responsible for things (such as you describe) that happened--good or bad. I felt that doing so was foolish because people from many other religions experienced many of the same compelling things. We would easily pooh-pooh their experiences, while many of my fellow JWs would relate experiences that they were absolutely positive came from Jehovah. It just seemed a little disengenuous to me.

It was also clear to me that some seemed particularly given to rather mystical thinking. Please know that I believe there's a God and a devil, but some of the thought patterns seemed bizarre. Example: my good friend, who had been born in Mexico--but who has lived in the US since he was about 9 (he's now about 46)--would so often attribute things to being the direct result of demons. Once he described how he came home and found a puddle of water on his dining room table and floor. After being unable to find a roof leak or any other explanation, he concluded that it must have been the work of demons. I tried reasoning with him, "Joe, if the demons are actively involved in trying to turn people away from the worship of Jehovah, why on earth would producing a puddle in your kitchen accomplish that? You think they just decided to come in and take a demon-wizz on your table?" His reply was always something like, "You never know, Bro."

Is this a cultural thing? Another Hispanic friend of mine claims that the Latin and African-American cultures both seem infused by a preoccupation with the mystical, often concluding that things are either the direct work of either spirits or God. I don't have enough experience with it to offer an opinion.

The only thing I can offer is the scripture we've read a thousand times at 1 John 4:1... "Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world..."

Here God's Word clearly communicates that things would happen, which we might mistakenly believe to be "inspired." So if the JWs coming to your door seems like an "inspired" happening, you have both the right--as well as the responsibility to "test" it.

8

Speaking of questions...

by Confession in

as a jw, did anyone ever ask you the following.... "if you discovered that jehovah's witnesses weren't really teaching the truth, would you leave them?".

here again, it's a toughie for most of them.

if they say "no" they appear a mind-numbed fool.

Confession

Wow, Shania... I recall the very same scenario--except it wasn't at an assembly and it wasn't a D.O. It was an elder giving a public talk on Sunday. I was visiting my parents' congregation with my new wife and newborn baby. I'm guessing it was in the late 80s. With great feeling, he said...

"Friends, what if this isn't the truth? What it it's all a big scam? (pause) Isn't it still the best way of life?!"

It now strikes me as telling that I was so disturbed by this expression, while most had no comment. I think that, in a sense, JWs can be classified into two groups. When faced with the thought that this organization may not be what it claims to be, some deeply desire to know the truth -- while others would prefer not to know.

My "awakening" just occurred this past September 15th, 2004. At 38, may family has been associated with JWs for four generations and more than 60 years. Previously I'd been a servant in the congregation for six years, an elder for three. More than thirty members of my family are inside--two who profess to be of the anointed. I genuinely believed it was the truth--and was NOT an opportunistic faultfinder, always looking for something to gripe about. Believe me, I'd rather not create a rift within my family. But, while some may be able to go along, pretending to believe, I cannot. I just can't lamely go through the motions, knowing that this organization is not what it purports to be--realizing the wicked way its leadership manipulates people and destroys families to protect itself.

Isn't that what the Watchtower Society likes to call "honest-hearted?" Perhaps scenarios such as the one you and I both witnessed had an affect on us because we are honest-hearted truth seekers--as opposed to those who've learned to deceive themselves in their desire to have "The Truth."

8

Speaking of questions...

by Confession in

as a jw, did anyone ever ask you the following.... "if you discovered that jehovah's witnesses weren't really teaching the truth, would you leave them?".

here again, it's a toughie for most of them.

if they say "no" they appear a mind-numbed fool.

Confession

As a JW, did anyone ever ask you the following...

"If you discovered that Jehovah's Witnesses weren't really teaching the Truth, would you leave them?"

Here again, it's a toughie for most of them. If they say "no" they appear a mind-numbed fool. But most don't want to consider such a possibility for one moment--particularly when in the presence of other JWs, so they will attempt to side-step the question. For those who do have the guts to say "yes," you have, in asking the question, helped put them in touch with their own common sense. If they are willing to verbalize that they'd leave under such a circumstance, it may make it harder for them to keep overlooking the occasional doubts they experience.

20

NEW LIGHT?

by sandy in

according to a jw witness friend of mine it is not always necessary to go to the elders to confess, not even the more serious sins such as immorality.. she said the only reason one would go to the elders is if they feel they no longer have jehovah's favor.

the elders are there to help them see they can still be loved by jehovah.. is she on crack!

i had a long discussion with her yesterday about religion and jws.

Confession

I was glad to find this thread. I too am keenly interested in this--and only this question...

Is confession to Christian elders necessary in order to receive Jehovah's forgiveness?
1) Reasoning from the Scriptures, under ?Confession,? addresses this.

?When a person sins against God

Matt. 6:6-12: ?When you pray, go into your private room and, after shutting your door, pray to your Father who is in secret . . . ?Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified . . . and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.??

Ps. 32:5: ?My sin I finally confessed to you [God], and my error I did not cover. I said: ?I shall make confession over my transgressions to Jehovah.? And you yourself pardoned the error of my sins.?
--------------------------------------------------

[You'll notice that the italics are the society's--not mine. This clearly implies that confession is something we do to Jehovah--as opposed to a man. Indeed the line of reasoning is attempting to demonstrate why Catholic confession is unscriptural.

But what does the Reasoning book say about James 5:14-16 ("Let him call the older men of the congregation to him...") It clearly says this comes into play... (and this is a direct quote...)

?When someone becomes involved in serious wrongdoing and wants spiritual help?--------------------------

[ While the answer given describes help from the older men as ? loving provisions to help the erring one progress to spiritual recovery,? it never takes the firm position that it is necessary. Instead of doing so, it gives the example of a brother whose experience would suggest that it is. The final words read?

? How much better to accept the loving assistance that Jehovah provides through the

elders!?

Saying that it is ?much better? is of course different than saying it is a ?scriptural requirement.?
----------------------------------

2) Here is what Insight on the Scriptures has to say about it...

Confessing sins to one another. The disciple James counsels: ?Openly confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may get healed.? (Jas 5:16) Such confession is not because any human serves as ?helper [?advocate,? RS]? for man with God, since Christ alone fills that role by virtue of his propitiatory sacrifice. (1Jo 2:1, 2) Humans, of themselves, cannot actually right the wrong toward God, on their own behalf or on behalf of others, being unable to provide the needed atonement. (Ps 49:7, 8) However, Christians can help one another, and their prayers on behalf of their brothers, while not having an effect on God?s application of justice (since Christ?s ransom alone serves to bring remission of sins), do count with God in petitioning his giving needed help and strength to the one who has sinned and is seeking aid.

--------------------------------------------------

3) What else does the Watchtower have to say?

*** w97 12/1 p. 14 Jehovah, a God ?Ready to Forgive? ***

Despite what mistakes you may have made, if you have truly repented, taken steps to right the wrong, and earnestly prayed for Jehovah?s forgiveness on the basis of Jesus? shed blood, you can have full confidence that the words of 1 John 1:9 apply to you: ?If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous so as to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.?

-------------------------------------------------------------

With all honesty, I do not see anywhere in which the Society ever explicitly states that confession to Christian elders is mandatory to receiving Jehovah's forgiveness. Indeed they seem quite clear (in many places) that it is something we do "to Jehovah." Furthermore, I am convinced that even most elders are not aware of this, having previously served as one myself.

I would like to hear of any other friends who've had experience with this subject.