Robin Hood and his Band of Merry Outlaws
The Sherwood Players and Those Who Shine their Boots
The Robin Hood Gang and Assorted Lusty Wenches
Confession
JoinedPosts by Confession
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16
need slogan, ideas please!
by pudd ini know this is not jw related but can i tap into your wealth of wisdom and talents please!
i work in a playgroup in a small village and we need to come up with a catchy/ humorous slogan to put on a banner on our float for the village festival parade this weekend.
the over all theme is medieval, and as a playgroup we are dressed as robin hood and maid marions.
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46
Mind Numbing stupidity are some current JW's that are on this board.
by skyman ini have had a rash of jws on this board leaving comments in my inbox telling me how mislead i am.
but what amazes me not one of them yet will analyze the facts with me.
a real discussion means nothing to them.
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Confession
Skyman,
I'd love to read your blood letter. Can you post it please?
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46
Mind Numbing stupidity are some current JW's that are on this board.
by skyman ini have had a rash of jws on this board leaving comments in my inbox telling me how mislead i am.
but what amazes me not one of them yet will analyze the facts with me.
a real discussion means nothing to them.
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Confession
Leaving is a process - not a moment.
I agree. In fact I've been describing it as just that, "a process," since my awakening about 8 months ago. For me, it was something that had been happening throughout my life--though I had no clue about it. It was an unfolding--even though I was NOT one of those JWs who are always questioning or doubting, and was always very pro-organization.
I recall as a young elder (29 or 30) thinking, "Can't a person change their mind?" It bothered me that we were encouraged to get baptized so young, at an age in which surely no one is mentally or emotionally mature enough to say, "I now dedicate my life (in part) to recognition that the WTS is 'God's spirit-directed organization,' and under no circumstances will decide differently later, under penalty of shunning from everyone who has ever meant anything to me." I mean, I believed this stuff, but (I used to think) I'm just a human being. How, as a human being, can I arrogantly assert that another person hasn't the right to possess a different belief--no matter HOW much I believed what I did? If someone, later in life, changed his or her mind, I felt our attitude should be one that showed understanding and a confidence that what we believed really WAS The Truth. Instead there was what I considered an almost childish, angry withdrawal that demonstrated profound paranoia. So often I'd wonder, "If this is really the truth from Almighty God, why do you act so scared and desperate when someone questions it?"
I recall some of our literature explaining how wrong and childish it was for a mate to give his or her spouse the "Silent Treatment," not talking to them under certain circumstances. While I agree, I thought it every bit as childish for grown adults to do the same with the intense institutionalized shunning arrangement. It reminded me of situations that would come up between my daughter and some of the friends she had in elementary school. One domineering little girl would decide not to like another girl--and would compel those in their mutual circle of friends not to associate with her. It reminded me of a "take my ball and go home" tantrum.
I now have the same quandary with my family, about thirty of whom are Jehovah's Witnesses--including my 17 year old daughter. With my daughter I am making slow progress. She's now listening to me. The rest of my family has no clue, and I have put off deciding whether to conduct a close-mouthed fade, or try to talk to them about it.
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76
no stones please!
by almosthome ini am hoping a little balance is allowed here, or at least the coin's flip side.
this is my story so far, but i am fairly sure it is going to end up a bit differently than most i have read on your site.
the brothers couldn't help my husband, he didn't want help.
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Confession
mrsjones,
My reference to evil, vicious apostates was sarcastic; what the WTS would call ex-JWs. And I was referring not to anything written in this thread, but to her comments about things she'd read in other threads.
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61
Describe Your Personality
by minimus inwhat type of person are you?
are you outgoing, charming, sweet, thoughtful, humorous?
all right.
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Confession
Highly extroverted, abstract thinker and communicator, a bit more friendly than tough-minded, and very much an unscheduled, prober--as opposed to a decisive on-schedule person. Myers-Briggs: Idealist Champion. Primary form of intelligence is Diplomacy, secondary is Strategy...not so great with Tactics or Logistics. I enjoy being enthusiastic, I seek identity, I aspire to be a Sage, I yearn for romance.
Friends think I'm funny, easy to get along with, but probably analyze things too much and procrastinate with the best of them.
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76
no stones please!
by almosthome ini am hoping a little balance is allowed here, or at least the coin's flip side.
this is my story so far, but i am fairly sure it is going to end up a bit differently than most i have read on your site.
the brothers couldn't help my husband, he didn't want help.
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Confession
Odrade,
Comments well taken. I recognize this forum as being (primarily) a place where ex-JWs go to connect and share their experiences. I enjoy it as such, but have to admit I'm more concerned about existing JWs and my desire for them to learn the things we have. So I bristle when one of them comes here and is met by the type of generalizations I described earlier. Do I think people have every right to vent--and warn others based upon their experiences? Certainly. I just remember what it was like when I was mounting my investigation into this organization. Anytime I found an ex-JW message board I recognized it as exactly what the FDS had warned us about. It just seemed like a lot of opportunistic faultfinders and justified my former understanding of so-called "apostates."
Now I understand better that these boards are not full of only this type of person--and that many of those who seem to be negative and hateful are that way for good reason. But I also know that, for those existing JWs who are searching, emotionally charged wholesale condemnations of the organization usually won't succeed in anything but possible validation that "apostates" are evil, vicious manslayers--and resulting disbelief.
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76
no stones please!
by almosthome ini am hoping a little balance is allowed here, or at least the coin's flip side.
this is my story so far, but i am fairly sure it is going to end up a bit differently than most i have read on your site.
the brothers couldn't help my husband, he didn't want help.
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Confession
Odrade,
I'm sure you must not mean it like that. Surely those who have children who were molested by an elder, then treated cruelly, or simply not believed, while watching the elder continue serving are not "blowing it out of proportion."
Please forgive me. I certainly didn't have such a thing in mind. I'd been reading so many threads of late that discussed how JWs are, for example, 'so without any decency or love' after having related a story about what one sister said, etc. Anyone in the situation you describe, of course, has every right to mistrust individuals or an organization that tolerates something like that.
This is a strawman argument. It asks suggests to us that there is logic in the decision to dismiss the wrongdoing of one group because there are many other organizations perpetrating the same type of abuse.
If I'd suggested such a dismissal it definitely would be a "straw man," but I never meant to do that. I intended to demonstrate that the organization of JWs is not the only group that has done damage to its adherents, and that individuals will use examples of what SOME of the people did to justify their wholesale denunciation of ALL the people. There are threads here in which many contributers have suggested that all elders are idiots--or that they never met an elder who wasn't a jerk. I don't think any honest person can believe that's true.
The "terrible things" mentioned may have sounded like I was discussing pedophilia, but I wasn't. While most of the bad things perpetrated by individuals within the organization don't make them peculiar from other religions, their policies about keeping things quiet regarding pedophilia does mark them as particularly reprehensible. In fact I thought about going into that later in the post, but decided it was long enough as it was. Again my apologies for any who thought I was "soft-pedaling" their anger over such a thing. I agree with you that it would be unfair. Would you agree that many in this forum make generalizations about JWs that are also unfair?
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76
no stones please!
by almosthome ini am hoping a little balance is allowed here, or at least the coin's flip side.
this is my story so far, but i am fairly sure it is going to end up a bit differently than most i have read on your site.
the brothers couldn't help my husband, he didn't want help.
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Confession
My Dear,
I read, with great emotion, all of what you wrote. I'm glad you've taken the time to use your own mind and consider what some of the Watchtower opposers have to say. I'm also glad to detect that you have come into a bit of comfort in your recent decision.
Clearly those who frequent this site express a variety of reasons for their unfavorable conclusions about the Watchtower Society. Some of them focus on negative experiences and are openly bitter. While I think they deserve all due consideration for their sufferings, to me such things can indeed be blown entirely out of proportion. All of a sudden people here are making sweeping generalizations suggesting that most all JWs are this or aren’t that, etc. Of course it's true that terrible things happen within the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, but they happen everywhere else too, don't they? And while it's also true that many men in positions of authority within the organization have used it in ways completely out of harmony with the Bible, such things again have occurred within virtually every group throughout history.
Understand please that my family has been associated with Jehovah's Witnesses for four generations and more than sixty years. I served as an elder, giving talks throughout my state, acting as chairman at conventions and in judicial committees. Despite this, I have come to realize that the WTS is not what it purports to be—only in the last eight months. I’ve done so without an ounce of bitterness toward any of the beautiful friends and fellow elders that were the only community I knew my entire life, nor toward any of the friends who might have been difficult to appreciate at times. Was this easy? I think you know it wasn’t. I had no desire to leave this community. Where on earth would I go? What will life be like? Nonetheless I have made the decision to leave.
I think it comes down to this: Does it matter to you whether it really is the Truth or not? This question is akin to asking, for instance, if you had a terminal illness, would you like to know—or would you rather be kept in the dark as long as possible? For me there is no question about it. I would rather know. As one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I really believed the teachings. I wasn’t messing around here. This wasn’t just something that satisfied a desire to belong and gave me something to believe in. I’m positive that for some though such is not the case.
I’m wondering if you ever watched the movie, "The Shawshank Redemption," starring Tim Robbins and Morgan Freeman. There was an interesting subplot within the movie involving a character named Brooks Hatlen. He was an elderly prisoner at Shawshank penitentiary who was let out after having spent his entire adult life there. Try as he might, Brooks just couldn’t adjust to life on the outside. He’d become institutionalized. He dwelt on ways he could commit a crime and thus return to the only place where life made sense to him: prison. Was it right for this man to want to return to prison? We wouldn’t want him to, but ultimately it was his decision.
People can be attracted to the reasoning that the WTS publications make. When they begin their study they are encouraged not to believe in a teaching unless they first test it well. You’ll notice though that this recommended testing is restricted to the person’s previously held beliefs, and usually just to a few specific ones, namely the Trinity doctrine, immortality of the soul, and literal torment in hellfire. They come to believe these positions strongly and are amazed at how nearly all of those claiming to be Christian believe in such doctrines! The argumentation is pretty well researched and developed on these things. Because they are so impressed with what they learn, as other teachings follow, they usually accept them pretty much on trust, without requiring the same level of evidence.
They find the opportunity to share these teachings with so many in field service or incidental witnessing that they come to feel that they are the basic doctrines of the Bible, things that form the standard for identification of the one true religion. But if you were to read the scriptures independent of influence, you will find as I did that this is simply not the case. So the average JW is well equipped to talk about the Trinity, the soul or hellfire—things that the Bible writers were never inspired to develop—but why can’t they ably discuss what Paul wrote about so strongly about salvation by faith and not works in his letter to the Romans?
I think you’re like me, in that we are able to forgive people for the things big or small they may have done against us. And we don’t want to condemn as wicked a whole group of people for the things that some of them have done. But what can’t be excused is what the leadership of this organization has done—and continues to do. They are part of a legacy of men that have proclaimed themselves the sole channel of communication from God to the rest of the planet. Their claim that the "faithful and discreet slave" Jesus mentioned at Matthew 24:14 refers to a class of people is utterly without foundation in God’s word. Every other reference to Christian "stewardship" shows very clearly that all of us
are expected to act as "stewards." Note how 1 Peter 4:10 & 11 reads…
"In proportion as each one has received a gift, use it in ministering to one another as fine stewards of God’s undeserved kindness expressed in various ways."
For them to assume this role is quite a remarkable thing. Have you really ascertained why it is that you are willing to recognize them as such? I mean, why exactly? Are you really satisfied that the scriptures support the idea that a group of men should be in the position they’ve assumed over others?
Furthermore, are you satisfied their assertion that 1914 was when Jesus sat down on his throne is accurate? Are you aware that they themselves have known for more than thirty years that the dates used to determine this teaching are in error? Does it matter to you that they continue to teach them anyway, hiding this fact from their adherents? Or that when a faithful, well-intentioned elder shows them the mind-boggling abundance of evidence of the error they threaten him to keep quiet about it or face disfellowshipping?
You write, "
A WT quote from years ago... 'Negative thinking requires little of the intellect." Oh how true! Easiest thing in the world..."
But do you apply the same principle to the "negative thinking" the Watchtower Society uses against every other religion—as well as anyone who simply disagrees with a single doctrinal point they’ve asserted? Anyone who does this is lambasted by them as "a self-styled teacher," "prideful," "concoct[ing] their own ideas," who use "smooth, deceptive speech" and who only want "to destroy the faith." But faith in what? Jesus Christ and Jehovah? Or in their own authority?
You also write, "In the end.. you have to make a choice, just make sure it is a choice... not just a rection against your pain, or your circumstances. Fear is very powerful. Faith is more powerful..".
And I say to you, dear sister, in making your choice, please make sure it is a one made by a rational mind—and not an emotional choice born out of having been institutionalized. It will feel good to be able to say to other Witnesses after you are reinstated, "Yes, I actually started reading those apostate message boards for awhile, but I came back to Jehovah anyway." But what is really at the heart of your decision to return? Because you think you’ll be happier? Or because you truly believe it is the truth?
Unlike the WTS, the people here will not demonize you for choosing a course different from ours. But also unlike the WTS we will not discourage you from looking at all the information. You are invited to do so.
Much Love
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Does the idea of a bodyless soul make sense? Could the 'soul' stay sane?
by IronGland inas i lay in my pod yesterday i began to think of the following.
in many religions-christianity, hinduism, and buddhism, as well as greek philosophy-attempts are made to mortify the body, to respond as little as often to it's carnal needs and what-not.
this is possible to be prepared for a new existence as just a disembodied soul, in some heavenly spirit realm or what-not.. .
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Confession
I used to wonder about this... People who are for a period of time considered dead, but are revived, sometimes claim that they have escaped their bodies, hovered above in the room and observed everything going on. This would fit the belief of a soul or spirit that lives on after death. Purportedly in this state they have taken with them their "mind." That is to say, they can somehow see and recognize their bodies on the operating table along with the medical staff.
If this is possible, what is the explanation for a person who experiences amnesia--or some other form of memory loss? If we have a "mind" apart from that which exists in our physical brain, why does it not kick in when the brain suffers amnesia? If our physical brain cannot recall or recognize things, why can't our spiritual mind?
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No compassion during Bible Study
by Grace ini was remembering today about a bible study an elder's wife took me on once (actually, her elder husband was the congregation overseer).
after the chapter was over for that day (i think the knowledge book), the elder's wife asked when we could arrange the next study.
the frail single mother of three evaded the question, and the elder's wife persisted.
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Confession
Okay... I, uncharacteristically, will take a different position from the group. (shudder) I mean, yes, to hear the story, it does sound awful. But isn't it possible this woman just slipped? I know I've done things like that many times in the past, and it wasn't because I was a nasty jerk. One time an older return visit of mine mentioned to me he'd just gotten out of the hospital. NOW I know not to ask "what for," but at the time I hadn't figured this out. "They castrated me," came his reply. What came out of my mouth following that was purely a nervous tension response. I think it was something just short of saying how it would no doubt grow back in the new system--or at least a comment about looking ahead to the new system.
I also remember talking to an old radio friend of mine who was trying to get a job at the station where I worked, since he'd just been fired. Our conversation turned to the new morning radio team who'd just hit town. I mentioned how much I liked their show--and how glad I was that the market had a fresh, new radio program in the morning. It wasn't until the next day that I realized this team had replaced HIM--and that's why he was fired.
You know, when my friends and family who are JWs finally decide to consider me an apostate, they will suddenly find all sorts of fault with me. They will pull out things from my past, perhaps quoting me when I'd made a comment without thinking, pointing to these things as indicators that I was a bad seed all along. I don't want to be this way in the reverse. Certainly we can identify so much about the Watchtower Society and individuals within the organization that is clearly just plain horrifying. And maybe this woman was indeed a disgraceful moron. But unless you can state with 100% certainty that you yourself have never said or done something pretty bad without thinking, can you really be positive that this wasn't just a slip?