Posts by Confession

23

I am en elder and I am ready to VOTE!

by outofthebox in

jw
friends

hey, .

as some of you know i am en elder.

i don't believe, but for the sake of my family i still go to the meetings.

Confession

Here is an article featuring two former fellow elder friends of mine. It appeared in the local paper just a short time after my "awakening."

No potentially deciding votes among Jehovah's Witnesses Election 2004 FLINT TOWNSHIP
THE FLINT JOURNAL FIRST EDITION
Saturday, October 30, 2004
By George Jaksa
[email protected] • 810.766.6332

FLINT TWP. - Ever wish, as you listen to the candidates' latest attacks and appeals, you could just ignore the fever-pitch final days of this knock-down presidential campaign? Or in good conscience treat Election Day like any ordinary Tuesday?

Jehovah's Witnesses do exactly that.

At a time when it seems all of the country is wrapped up in the Bush-Kerry race for the White House, this one small sect of Americans remains above the fray, going about their lives as normally as they can.

To put it plainly: They don't vote. Period.

"We don't get caught up in all the politics," said Jeff Ragan, presiding overseer of the West Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, 1187 S. Dye Road. "The only thing we do is remain neutral, and that's no secret to people who know us."

Ragan estimated there are about 1,000 Jehovah's Witnesses in Genesee County, worshipping in 12 congregations - part of 930,000 congregations worldwide. Ragan has presided over seven elders at his congregation since 1997.

It's not that the Christian denomination is oblivious to all the political hoopla, said Ragan, 49, of Flint Township.

"We watch TV, listen to the radio and read newspapers like other people," he said, "but to us, our king is our Lord Jesus.

"We appreciate and respect the position of government, but we realize they are just men" added Ragan, who works as a home mortgage loan officer for Flagstar Bank. "We believe in Christ, and we support his kingdom."

That's the Witnesses' stance worldwide, according to Ragan. They take their cue from, among other things, Jesus' words in the gospel of John (chapter 17, verse 14) when he said, "They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world."

Another Jehovah's Witness, Anthony Bryant, 44, of Flint, said Witnesses are not prohibited from participating in nonpartisan elections, including school district millage votes, but most stay away anyhow. Most don't even register to vote, he said.

"It's their decision to make," said Bryant, an appliance technician, "but if it is their decision to remain neutral, there is no reason to register to vote."

He said Jehovah Witnesses also are able to withstand all the hoopla of political campaigns.

"Witnesses respect and cooperate with authorities, so it's not a matter of being irritated or affected by what's going on in politics," Bryant said.

By contrast, Chico Jabero, 48, an east-side Flint businessman, treasures his right to vote. Jabero, a Chaldean, emigrated from Iraq 30 years ago.

"Everybody should vote, because we can show our values by voting," he said. "Everybody should hear our voice."

Jehovah's Witnesses, though, say if they were to help elect a leader, they would be responsible for his or her subsequent actions.

"The subject of politics just does not come up at our meetings, because of our beliefs," Ragan said.

Witnesses also distance themselves from worldly matters by rejecting military service and not recognizing holidays or birthdays.

So, what would happen if a Witness were to weigh in Tuesday by casting a ballot?

Ragan said the congregation would make efforts to return such a person to good standing in the church - but also held out the prospect of complete shunning, or "disfellowshiping."

"We make every effort scripturally to readjust that person before further steps are taken," said Ragan, who added that he hasn't heard of such a case during his 24 years as a Witness.

He said he knows of no other group that shares the stance of Jehovah's Witnesses on politics.

I find it humorous how Bryant says JWs are not prohibited from voting, "it's their decision," etc., but Ragan "held out the prospect of complete shunning." LOL! Which is it, boys?

19

Phoenix, AZ What do you think?

by White Dove in

jw
friends

i visited phoenix when i was a kid and fell in love with the hot desert and big city.. i haven't been back since, so i'd like your take on phoenix now.. i've given up on houston, tx cuz it doesn't sound as nice as the desert..

Confession

Originally from Michigan; (grew up in northern Michigan.) Have lived in the East Valley area of Phoenix for a bit more than two years now. Yes, it really does depend on the individual and his/her lifestyle. For about three and a half months it's hot as hell...BUT for about eight and a half months (to my way of thinking) it's as close as you can get to paradise (temperature-wise.)

So, during those crazy hot months, my time outside is minimal. In the early morning, I might go out for a dip in my pool, but I'm either in the house, my car, or some other air-conditioned environment. I seem to tolerate the heat pretty well--when it's for short periods: from the car to the store or restaurant, etc. I know some people who really love the heat too. I definitely prefer this weather to the nasty weather in Michigan. I do love Michigan, but the bitter cold lasts far longer than Phoenix's worst heat in my opinion, and the gray, cloudy, drizzly conditions can have a depressive effect. On the other hand I can almost always count on lovely, golden sunshine here.

As someone who travels about 46 weeks per year throughout the country, I always get a kick at how someone can quickly size up a city. Just because someone drove to the airport in Phoenix does not give them a single clue about what is offered here. As you'll find almost anywhere, there are poor areas and there are great ones. I am by no means an expert on the area, but there are some positively gorgeous areas in Scottsdale and Tempe, and I'm delighted with how my neighborhood has been springing up. Although I've seen no signs of gangs myself, we can all imagine they must be here. I mean, Phoenix is the 5th largest city in the country now. 2nd largest in the western states after Los Angeles. It's entire metro area is 13th largest as well--at 4.6 million and growing. Would you expect gangs in New York, L.A., Chicago? Then why not Phoenix?

If you can't take the heat...best stay away from Phoenix--or at least enjoy it from October through May/June. But if you love gorgeous, mountain views, incomparable sunsets, hiking, fabulous dining--and all the other things that go along with a major metropolitan area--including almost nonstop sunshine, get here as soon as possible!

47

Respond ONLY if you are an Elder or Ministerial Servant

by Hiddenwindow in

jw
friends

how many elders and ms are in this forum?

let's have a survey.

an elder here..

Confession

Since you're not getting many positive IDs here I thought I'd raise my hand as an EX-elder. Was one for three years.

17

Who Can Scan an Image for Me? BOUND VOL IMAGE NEEDED

by V in

i am looking for a better quality image of this from the watchtower march 15, 1986 page 12. .

i prefer jpg if possible and please include the caption "do you wisely destroy apostate literature?

remember, remember the fifth of november!

Confession

I'm with you, Besty. I've always wondered why they chose that photo. It looks quite nearly like a thirty-something version of Laura Ingalls Wilder.

70

Let's predict the next 10 years of "noolite"

by Awakened at Gilead in

the past 15 years or so have seen incredible "advances" in the new light agenda of the wts.. there have been changes in the generation (twice!

), sheep and goats, celestial phenomena, opening up the way to heaven (closed since 1935), the "composite sign", "blood fractions", along with major organizational changes, such as paperbacks, once monthly awake!

's, cult edition of the wt, along with the reduction of the meeting nights and change to the po nomenclature becoming the coboe (ssdd).... some of these changes have been foreseen by posters here on jwd, or were suggested by information in apostates recomended reading lists (i.e.

Confession

I loved this from Pubsinger...

"Some Christians have increasingly been led to believe that accepting blood is a matter of conscience - how should we view them? It would not be right for us to stand in judgement, everyone must bear their own load before God."

Like you, the style and word choice of these guys will forever be etched upon my mind.

In considering the 144,000 problem, I'd imagine the WTS would continue to react as they have before. Instead of loosening, they tend to tighten their grasp. All they'd need to do is say that elder bodies would be responsible for reporting the number of partakers whom they deem legitimate. I can see the letter from them now, full of instructions as to how to make such a determination. I know they did it with the "generation" of 1914, but rather than go back on such a fundamental teaching as the 144,000 being literal, I think they'll just choose to control the numbers themselves.

18

ADVERTISE, ADVERTISE, ADVERTISE! ...watchtowercomments.com

by V in

please don your sandwich board and join me.

any help promoting the november 5th release of www.watchtowercomments.com is appreciated.. gratuitous placement on discussion boards and blogs recommended.. picture link: http://www.watchtowercomments.com/teaser.jpg.

video teaser link: double-click on the video screen below .

Confession

Glad to hear, V. Am very much looking forward to this--and to more of your remarkable videos.

Confession

45

On CNN today: Acorn engaging in massive vote fraud.

by BurnTheShips in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkukosnv2zy

Confession

But this has clearly been brought to the table as a means to discredit Obama.

I guess that's not so clear to me. If you view both the Subject of this thread, and the opening contribution, it is merely a news story about "massive vote fraud." Certainly a newsworthy story.

Of course, from here, it all depends on how partisan one chooses to be. Is it true that Obama has strong connections to ACORN? Is it true that many years ago, he was brought on as a "leadership trainer" of Chicago's ACORN branch? Is it true that Obama--along with a team of other Chicago attorneys--went to court on behalf of ACORN? Is it true that he contributed $800,000 to them recently? Is it true that they have been found to commit massive voter registration fraud nationwide for many years? The answer is "yes" to all of these questions. Would something like this coming out about McCain cause opportunistic Democrats to flame him. I'd have to say "yes" to that too.

For me, I really do wish we could consider all of this sort of stuff as very secondary, and instead concentrate the approach to government each of these candidates brings. This subject is not an indictment against Obama, but an indictment against this particular fraudulent organization.

45

On CNN today: Acorn engaging in massive vote fraud.

by BurnTheShips in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkukosnv2zy

Confession

TS, I'll try to address your concern by simply stating: This thread is not necessarily about Barack Obama's doing anything wrong. Yes, it doesn't necessarily look good, since he gave such a large contribution to them. But it certainly does NOT prove that he wanted ACORN to do anything underhanded. To me, this thread merely identifies ACORN as an untrustworthy organization that has been responsible for massive voter registration fraud.

Yes, it is true that until a vote is cast under a fraudulent registration, obviously, no damage has been done yet. But you have to ask yourself why someone would do this. If any political action group, which claims to be above board and diligent about monitoring itself, is found to be registering thousands of voter registrations that are fraudulent...what is the possible defense? "Wellllll, no one's actually voted yet... Relax! No harm done! Leave us alone!"

While I personally do not believe Obama would desire to benefit from fraud, this organization's massive fraud is enough to conclude that they are--at least--a defective organization. And I would hope he would not choose to make such a contribution to them in the future.

45

On CNN today: Acorn engaging in massive vote fraud.

by BurnTheShips in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkukosnv2zy

Confession

So what if it's a duplicate registration you can only vote one time!

Folks, please review the CNN video and the article Big Tex posted. Although ACORN has at times been shown to make duplicate registrations, this is not what they're talking about here. Of the 5,000 registrations in this single county, 2100 have, as yet, been identified as clearly and obviously fraudulent. Many of them are in the names of dead people. One of them was made in the name of Jimmy Johns...yes, that's right, with the address of a Jimmy Johns sub shop! Thousands of them were written and signed in precisely the same hand by the same person.

The CNN reporter says, "It's not that some are bad. Once they started going through them, every one they looked at was bad."

"It is fraud," says the Democrat Director, Sally LaSota.

In Las Vegas, the group tried to register fake voter registrations in the names of the Dallas Cowboy team members, such as Tony Romo, Terrell Owens and others--all of which are not registered to vote in Nevada. Who is bringing this charge against ACORN in Nevada? The Democrat Secretary of State, Ross Miller

Washington state's Secretary of State, last year, called another farce from ACORN, "the worst case of voter-registration fraud in the history of the state."

From The Seattle Times: "The announcement of criminal charges came after the King County Canvassing Board revoked 1,762 allegedly fraudulent voter registrations submitted by ACORN employees. Senior Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Stephen Hobbs told the board that six ACORN workers had admitted filling out registration forms with names they found in phone books last October. The canvassers filled out the forms while sitting around a table at the downtown Seattle Public Library, Hobbs said." http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003806904_webvotefraud26m.html

Some of the names they forged? Tom Tancredo, Dennis Hastert, Alcee Hastings, John McKay, Leon Spinks, Frekkie Magoal, Fruto Boy Crispila...

This has been going on for years all across the country, including my hometown of Detroit. In the past ACORN has promised to do better, but the ridiculously flagrant fraud continues. Come on! You've got bipartisan committees and Democrat leaders stepping forward to speak out against this. How dare anyone refer to this as "Republican attacks." I do not believe Barack Obama would like to benefit from something this fraudulent--and, at this point, it certainly doesn't look like he needs it. The point is, this ACORN organization has demonstrated that it cannot be trusted.

19

My Elder Brother's Flip-Flopping Sucking Up to Appease My Elderly Parents

by flipper in

jw
friends

where do i start ?

a brief summation here.

as some of you know my ex-bethel elder brother told my sister a witness who was a victim of a stroke that in august she needed to move 8 hours away to her witness daughter who could care for her better .

Confession

I'm with Marvin on this. I'm aware that you have the full story on your brother--and I don't--but in trying to be objective in considering what you've laid out, I don't see it as clearly wrong--or obviously about money. I *cringe* at the concept of "pioneering," but I know many of these JW zombies think it's the best way to live right now. They may also feel a bit "guilted" into it by the Society. For them to think that her daughter could better care for her--and that this daughter might be the most appropriate person to care for her--does not appear to be wildly off-base. You yourself have written that she's receiving better care now.

The idea that they see her daughter as the most sensible caregiver for her--but see themselves as the right ones to care for your parents--does not seem suspicious to me. Unless one is looking to be suspicious.