No, I wasn't doing that, Flying. I was responding to the poster who said the boys should "just get over it." I too think it's very possible that such a thing can be misinterpreted.
Confession
JoinedPosts by Confession
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87
Parent sleeping with teenagers
by Fatfreek inan ex brother and i were talking recently and he recounted a bizarre story.
he too left the witneys some years ago, got a divorce, and the two children (both boys) decided to stay with his wife since she was still a jw.. one of his boys (never baptized a jw) confided in him not long ago about the sleeping arrangements after he left.
she told the boys that she was feeling depressed and lonely because of the divorce and turmoil that their apostate father had caused her and asked them (ages 15 and 16) to each alternate and sleep with her every other night.. it took lots of courage for this son to talk to his father about it since he wanted it off his chest.
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87
Parent sleeping with teenagers
by Fatfreek inan ex brother and i were talking recently and he recounted a bizarre story.
he too left the witneys some years ago, got a divorce, and the two children (both boys) decided to stay with his wife since she was still a jw.. one of his boys (never baptized a jw) confided in him not long ago about the sleeping arrangements after he left.
she told the boys that she was feeling depressed and lonely because of the divorce and turmoil that their apostate father had caused her and asked them (ages 15 and 16) to each alternate and sleep with her every other night.. it took lots of courage for this son to talk to his father about it since he wanted it off his chest.
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Confession
I wonder if this story hits us differently based upon our differing experiences. Having grown up in an environment free of any sort of sexual inappropriateness, the idea of a mother asking her teenage sons to sleep with her over a limited period of time (to me) may sound like a bad idea--but it is not necessarily sexual abuse. Some who've had this sad thing enter their lives may be extra alert to such a thing happening again. I take into consideration that the boy felt there was some uncomfortable touching. To the extent this is the case, it may indeed have been very inappropriate--and ultimately abuse.
I would like to address the line of thought another poster brought up in responding to the person who said he should just "get over it." I too agree that some can apply a different standard for women and men in this area. On another thread about pedophilia, for instance, one person made the comment that this is something 'some men have a problem with.'
I did considerable research into this subject when chairman of a Judicial Committee hearing the case of a fellow elder who'd be accused by two persons of pedophilia from years before. Some of the information we'd found was that women are responsible for approximately one-third of all pedophilia and statutory rape--although such abuse is reported less by boys than girls. Also a study from 1993 showed that 60% of young male survivors had been molested by at least one female. Part of the trouble is that those who recover the best from such experiences are those that have received counseling very early. Since boys are less likely to report--and parents less likely to report when they find out--boys more often go without the help they need in this area.
I presently live with my daughter who will be 18 this month. In the last few years there have been a few occasions when she and I have slept in the same bed together. It was either when she'd had a bad dream and came in to sleep in my bed (a King Size)--or when staying at a hotel the only room available had one King Size bed. Certainly nothing inappropriate whatsoever occurred--and neither of us had any reason to feel uncomfortable about it. When she was younger, my wife and I both used to explain to her why sleeping in the same bed with her as a matter of routine was a bad idea. I still think it's a bad idea in general. Yet, under very infrequent circumstances that present themselves, I don't feel it should be obsessed over.
If in fact some inappropriate things did occur in the bed with these boys, then their feelings should very definitely be taken seriously. And pooh-poohing it because they are boys is outrageous--and (I might add) part of the problem itself.
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Confession
Yes, there were times that I was. For instance, it used to make me proud that JWs were the only Christian group who openly defied Hitler--of course until I discovered all the facts and found out that the organization was prepared to support Hitler's government, even calling Jews "the representatives of Satan the Devil." It was only after feeling put out by Hitler that Rutherford moved for the resistance he did.
Granted, I still see the fortitude and actions of people such as the family represented in "Purple Triangles" as noble. I suppose courage on behalf of a principle can always be an admirable thing. I just don't know how much of it was purely such--and how much of it was adhering to the commands of centralized authority (WTS) that provided the primary motivation.
I also used to be (and I think still am) thankful about the attitude toward race I was brought up with. I know others have had experiences quite to the contrary, and I can of course only comment on my personal perceptions. But, growing up in Detroit, my family and I were in constant association with people of all different races: black, white, Hispanic, Asian, Middle Eastern, recent European immigrants... I was taught from a very young age that there were no differences between the races, and that we were all brothers and sisters despite the color of our skin or the way we talked. Again I know others may not have experienced what I did, but I can say (at least) that I was brought up without the burden of racial stereotyping. And that's one small thing I can be grateful for--knowing that I cannot change my past.
The man who first began to help me cope with the terror of finding out The Truth wasn't really such helped me with his own perspective. He had grown up during the sixties, and while so many of his childhood friends had gone down the paths of drug use or crime, he'd been in association with the organization and was, in this way, protected from many dangerous outcomes. One might suggest the WTS has its own special dangerous outcomes, and I'd have to concede that.
In trying to learn from life, gain useful perspectives--and in being honest about such, I can admit to these little points of appreciation. But was being a part of this organization worth the above? No. Ultimately it was all wrong. Fraudulent. Deceptive. Damaging. Just as "Mussolini made the trains run ontime," these minor positives do not make up for the hijacking of human lives.
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31
What do I tell my mother?
by Confession inthe facts.... -3rd generation of a 4-generation witness family.
30 members of my family are in--including my mother, father, 3 siblings and their mates and children.
(other relatives too.
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Confession
Hey, darkuncle,
I certainly recognize I'm not responsible for my individual family members. Quite a few have made that comment to me, so let me be clear: I'm responsible for myself. My interest in communicating with them (in whatever way I do) is because I'd like them to know what I know. It's that simple really. I used to think that JWs had The Truth--and so I would tell people so. Now that I recognize it is not--and that it is actually in some ways destructive and fraudulent--I want people to know that too. Especially my own family. While sharing this information with them is no guarantee that they'll accept it (or indeed even listen to it,) it seems the only proper and loving thing to do. I recognize the ramifications that may come along with this. While I understand many of you have decided these ramifications are too great, personally I refuse to remain under the oppressive shackles of the Watchtower Society. Just won't live my life in fear of them--or how they may implore my family to treat me once I make things known to them.
I do recognize the importance of letting some time pass, if for no other reason than to make sure I've got all my ducks in a row--and am prepared to explain if need be. That I will do.
My sincere appreciation to all of you...
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31
What do I tell my mother?
by Confession inthe facts.... -3rd generation of a 4-generation witness family.
30 members of my family are in--including my mother, father, 3 siblings and their mates and children.
(other relatives too.
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Confession
Free Willy,
Thanks so much for your post. You made a few comments that I'm definitely going to keep in mind. (Trying to show them I'm giving serious consideration to certain issues--not giving them easy reason to default to one of the typical assumptions.) While you have had zero percent success, it is also possible that someone may eventually begin to discover the things you discovered--and your former comments may make it easier for them to give themselves permission to investigate them as you did. That's what I have in mind myself. I don't think for a second that more than a couple (if that) of my family members will actually listen to me for more than two minutes about what I've learned. But for me this has been a process, and I hope that in beginning to reveal what I've learned in a progressive manner now (rather than years from now) I can perhaps be the catalyst that starts the process for them.
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31
What do I tell my mother?
by Confession inthe facts.... -3rd generation of a 4-generation witness family.
30 members of my family are in--including my mother, father, 3 siblings and their mates and children.
(other relatives too.
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Confession
I think bursting out with your news might make you feel better, but it may not have the desired effect.
Jgnat, I assure you that what would make me feel better is the idea that I would never have to confront this issue.
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31
What do I tell my mother?
by Confession inthe facts.... -3rd generation of a 4-generation witness family.
30 members of my family are in--including my mother, father, 3 siblings and their mates and children.
(other relatives too.
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Confession
...correct me if I am wrong, but, Confession, your feelings of responsibility to show them the 'light' about the org rings of a jw trained consciense.
Interesting thought, hopelessly. I can't deny that I was brought up as a JW--and that this will forever have an effect on who I am. But sacrificing a degree of personal difficulty in favor of trying to do something you think is important is not something JWs invented.
Being that what ever you are convinced of being 'right' is the same conviction they must/should come to, if only you could properly inform them.
If you read what I've written, you'll find I am under no such delusion. As stated, I am aware that most of them will have nothing (or verrrrry little) to do with me--regardless of how well I think I might present it. We are not here talking about my trying to talk them into a new religion. My position is this: Everyone deserves to know all of the information. I know what they know--and I know what I've learned since conducting my objective research. On the other hand, they only know what the WTS tells them and refuse to listen to anything else. I don't expect them to come to my conclusions. I only want them to consider that it is right and proper to look at ALL the information.
Prophecor, thanks again. What you're saying is the heart of the problem as I think about it. I'd like to be able to talk to the rest of my family, but don't see that as possible without my mother and father finding out. I have considered that they may be at an age where (as I originally posted) I might consider just letting them be. (Although, of my family members, I actually see my mother as being one who would possibly listen.)
All of these comments confirm my concern that I must be very careful about coming to any quick decisions on this. And thanks again for all of your posts.
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31
What do I tell my mother?
by Confession inthe facts.... -3rd generation of a 4-generation witness family.
30 members of my family are in--including my mother, father, 3 siblings and their mates and children.
(other relatives too.
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Confession
Thanks, hopelessly and jgnat... With reference to the comment...
Create your own circle of friends and new family and keep the jw family at arms length. Be kind to them do not give them any information so they feel they must condemn you and your children. Keep things on your terms and where you are comfortable.
Please understand that I'm really not having any issues about moving on with my life. I have accumulated lots of new friends--as well as old friends from school and the workplace, and I have no problem decreasing the role my JW family members play in my life. In fact, that's already been done.
That said, I very much appreciate your comments. It looks like the majority are in favor of a close-mouthed fade. And until now that's what I've been doing. The thing that nags at me though is if I'm doing this so that they don't feel 'they must condemn me and my child,' am I not being rather selfish? Yes, it might mean I get to keep having some type of relationship with them, but (ultimately) what will that relationship be like? These people are singularly Watchtower focused. Any discussion with them will invariably lead to 'why I'm not going to meetings anymore.' Further, there will be an uncomfortable barrier between us.
Yes, I know..."An uncomfortable relationship may be better than no relationship at all." But the more I think about it, the more it seems that telling them is the right thing to do. If it means losing most of them, but in time gaining true relationships with some of them--and perhaps helping one or some of them wake up--I think it may be worth it in the long run. This way I can be righteous about this thing and have at least a shot at getting them to start thinking!
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31
What do I tell my mother?
by Confession inthe facts.... -3rd generation of a 4-generation witness family.
30 members of my family are in--including my mother, father, 3 siblings and their mates and children.
(other relatives too.
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Confession
Prophecor,
Offense? Certainly none taken. Just trying to ascertain the point of your first response. I now understand that you believe it's better to zip the lip, as it were, than meet the situation head on. Yes, I remember the concept of Spiritual Warfare, and have no problem using it--not necessarily toward anyone else but the organization that propounds its use itself. For me though it's not an issue of being capable of sidestepping, etc. It's more one of feeling wrong about not telling them what I believe they need to know. Yes, I know what the likelihood is in the short term. I suspect that there will be a little family proclamation that until I "return to Jehovah" I should expect no communication from them. I also suspect that, in time, some would only very occasionally call or write to me. It's also possible that my mother would do so, in tears, from time to time.
But... Given the proliferation of information about JWs on the internet--and the powerful effect it's having--the likelihood exists that some of them will eventually start putting two and two together just as I did. And it's also possible that my attempt to reach them will make them more open to finally giving themselves permission to give this organization an objective investigation.
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31
What do I tell my mother?
by Confession inthe facts.... -3rd generation of a 4-generation witness family.
30 members of my family are in--including my mother, father, 3 siblings and their mates and children.
(other relatives too.
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Confession
Luna2, yes, I know I might have a long wait—and I certainly hope so. They are not in ill health at all. Dad, at almost 73, just completed a one-week bicycle marathon—and can’t wait until next year to do it again!
Prophecor, I am certainly aware that my mother may have these suspicions. I’m not sure what your purpose is in pointing that out. I’m looking for personal opinions as to how to proceed from here.
Wanderlustguy and HappyDad… I guess your thoughts are the long and short of it—if I hope to have a relationship with them in the future.
Willyloman, I appreciate your comments. Personally, I’m doing fine. I have many, many new friends—and am beginning to enjoy life for the first time. In the last ten months—and even longer, truth be told—I’ve completely immersed myself in understanding what’s wrong with this organization. As I come to the concluding pages of “In Search of Christian Freedom,” having already read “Crisis of Conscience” and talked to dozens of ex-JWs, I’ve come to the conclusion that I now must put fingers to keyboard and outline all of my relevant findings. This is both therapeutic for me—and also prepares me for a possible future confrontation with—not only family members—but also former JW friends.
What I am struggling with is not intense fear that I may never speak to my family members again. What I’m troubled by is the idea that I have important information to share with them—and that I might hold back from sharing it because of the profound emotional pain it will cause them. Right now that doesn’t feel right. If I’ve come to the realization that this organization is not what it purports to be—that they are throwing their lives away in dedication to something false—it seems incumbent on me to share this with my family regardless of any reaction, understanding that it could help some of them wake up eventually. And at least I can hold my head high as someone with personal integrity. But, with so much at stake, I don’t want to rush headlong before very carefully considering this. That’s why I’ve asked for your comments. And having done so, thanks! You’re helping a great deal.