Posts by barry

15

non-denom bible study groups

by TheListener in

jw
friends

is there any such thing as a church or group that gathers together to study the bible and share information without ramming it down everyone's throad and trying to disfellowship anyone who doesn't agree?.

i'd love to eventually attend a bible study group where an exchange of ideas can be had without everyone getting offended or defensive.

sort of like here, but different.

barry

i dont beleive one has to go to a non denominational church to freely discuss bible topics. Im an SDA and am a little reluctant to promote my own church too much here because I know there are many good churches out there also some SDA doctrine promoted by the right wing of adventism is way off the mark as far as the Protestant Gospel of Righteousness by faith is concerned. The Adventist doctrine of the investigative judgement is a very bad doctrine which in its purest form gives the beleiver no assurance of salvation but only a works based religion.

Of course not all SDAs go along with such perfectionistic type religion.

On the other hand SDAs have a very strong beleife in th priesthood of all beleivers and this means they take personal bible study and bible discussion very seriously.

A few years ago we had a family who had been studying with the witnesses leave and they went around to all the churches in the town where I lived at the time. This family found they could freely discuss the bible at the SDAs more than in any other denomionation. The family went to the Anglicans, baptist Uniting and they eventually became SDAs.

The meeting I would recommend at the SDAs is the sabbath school held before the divine service its something like the watchtower study except in my experiance as a third generation SDA at times there is no holds barred as to where a discussion may lead.

Someone said earlier they dont think that trinitarianism and arianism could co exist well it does in the SDA church. When barnhouse and martin studied SDAism they nearly gave the denomination cult status from the beginning because they went to the General Conferance with documents with the church logo supporting both the trinity and Arinaism. A whole suitecase full.

Dont let anyone tell you that you must beleive someting because a smart man changes his mind sometimes, but a fool never.

These thoughts are from my own experiance and many times i have enjoyed the discussion and fellowship of christians of other denominations. Barry

23

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 4-30-06 WT Study (False Worship)

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the april 30, 2006 wt study (march 15, 2006 issue, pages 27-31)(false worship)).

review comments will be in red.

" (matthew 7:23) the now enthroned king, jesus christ, has nothing to do with false religion.. true worshippers--only jws.

barry

Gday heathen, The SDAs do have footwashing usually before the bread and grapejuice and this service is held each quarter or every three monthsat the divine service the main one SDAs have. The communion service is open to all who are baptized including those of other denominations that are baptized.

There is some dispute in some churches as to wheather the foot washing should be held before or after the communion service..Traditionally it has been held before and it is a time to make things right with other beleivers. It is also called the ordinance of humility.

If any JWs feel they would like to partake they would be free to go and there would be no problem they may only be asked if they are baptized. They wouldnt have to be baptized SDA

23

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 4-30-06 WT Study (False Worship)

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the april 30, 2006 wt study (march 15, 2006 issue, pages 27-31)(false worship)).

review comments will be in red.

" (matthew 7:23) the now enthroned king, jesus christ, has nothing to do with false religion.. true worshippers--only jws.

barry

Gday freetosee, You must have missunderstood SDAs go anywhere. I went to the memorial a few years ago and I even invited my SDA minister to come along and he did come along to keep me company. Some fanatic SDAs may not go to another church but that would be unusual. I know of meetings where the local SDAs were invited to a penticostal church starting up and where the SDAs were uncomfortable at them speaking in toungs.

SDAs still beleive they are right and everyone else is mistaken but at the same time when they are worshiping with other christians they beleive they are worshiping god. There is no official position with SDAs on attendance at other churches. Barry

86

The Earliest Trinity Statements

by Amazing1914 in

jw
friends

[note: i am not promoting a religion, a church system, nor a set of beliefs.

i am merely reporting history as i find it.

the early, ante-nicene church fathers spent much time fighting heresies.

barry

Vincent of Lerins lived about the 5th century on the island of Lerins. Vincent said Christian doctrine is developed just as a child grows into a man.thats the very example he used. The modern champion of the developement of doctrine is John Henry Newman who wrote a essay on the subject. He wrote about the rules to follow to test if a developement is true.

This is a catholic beleif so why would i be promoting a Catholic beleif? Because all christians in practice beleive in the developement of doctrine.Note the following. the doctrine of salvation was not developed by the protestants until the 15th century.

b.Slavery was permitted in the new testamant later slavery was not continued by the christian church.

c The full new testament was not decided apon until the fourth century. True most of the new testament was in place by the second century but hebrews to Revelation had not been decided on with Revelation being the last to be included.

d And to the WT beleifs 1914 was not decided apon until some time after 1914 so does the WT beleive in the developement of doctrine? Well yes they just call it by another name "New Light ' comes to mind.

eNow with the trinity which wasnt developed until the 4th century my question here would be Why Not?

Sometimes we all may beleive certain things to be true but they may not have them written down in a precice way.I may say to you do you like black sabbath or elton john? Now you may preferr elton john but you may have never saw the nead to make think about or even make that statement and the doctrine of the christian church is a bit like that. People beleive the trinity doctrine way before the forth century but until a hericy came up didnt see the nead to argue a non issue. Barry

20

What is the % of Born-Agains Christians that tell you "Trinity" or else die

by booker-t in

jw
friends

i know this might sound abit "harsh" but i think it is time ex-jw's, new born agains, or people just interested in the bible put a stop to this "believe"in the trinity doctrine or go to eternal flames" madness.

alot of innocent young one are being emotional damaged by this burn in hell fiasco.

just like the wts "no blood"policy and if you take a blood transfusion you will be announced "no longer one of jw's" and shunned by your family and friends, the hell fire doctrine does alot of damage to the innocent mind on several levels.

barry

So called born agains are well known for beleiving if a christian doesnt speak in toungs and receive the holy spirit he isnt saved.

Of course all christians receive the holy spirit the moment they beleive and speaking in tounges is a gift of the holy spirit .

Isnt the beleif that a person has to beleive in certain things a gnostic beleif? I think ist up to the holy spirit to lead us into truth

23

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 4-30-06 WT Study (False Worship)

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the april 30, 2006 wt study (march 15, 2006 issue, pages 27-31)(false worship)).

review comments will be in red.

" (matthew 7:23) the now enthroned king, jesus christ, has nothing to do with false religion.. true worshippers--only jws.

barry

I remember years ago a catholic man came to a service at the SDA church but had to get special permission from his priest. We couldnt beleive the catholic church had so much power over people.

On the other hand protestants from other churches would come regularly to the SDA church once a year to take the divine service and promopt the bible society with no problems.

I beleive the catholics even now when they go to another demonination beleive they are not worshiping god in true way and attendance at another church cant be substituted for weekly attendance at the catholic church.

10

Looking for input on the "Rapture" doctrine...

by Jamelle in

saw a documentary on tv this weekend about it.

have heard about the "left behind" series of books that deal with this belief.. one thing that caught my attention about the belief in the rapture was that it seemed very dark.

it seems to focus more on the scary things that are talked about in revelation than the message of peace and love that i admire in the teachings of christ.. the other thing that bothered me is that it seemed similar to the witnesses in that you have to be "saved" or you are going to die.

barry

The rapture doctrine divides the second comming into two events separated by seven years and is a very recent doctrine in christianity. I beleive it was developed by the bretherine many baptists beleive the doctrine too. One of the great supporters of the doctrine is hal Linsey in the Late Great Planet Earth.

No theologins in christindom go along with Hal Linseys interpretations.

290

607

by Zico in

jw
friends

can anyone provide me with any evidence (links to other sites is fine) that jerusalem could not have possibly fallen to the babylonians in 607?

thanks again for your answers.

zico

barry

In the tree vision of Daniel four the time period mentioned is seven times which is seven years no problem there.

The year day principle states and i dont beleive the year day principle is a valid biblical datum. "?You would be hard pressed to get a year day from numbers ezekiel or from daniel 9. In fact commentaries on the bible say that the year day principle is not necessary to explain daniel 9

Can we also agree that the word day is not mentioned in the tree vision in daniel 4.

The fact is time only extends to the cross.

19

Question about the 1260 and 1335 days

by mathead in

i was just at jwfacts.com and was looking at the daniel/revelation phrophecies.

the book of daniel mentions 1260 and 1335 days.

the wts interprets these dates as follows:.

barry

Why arent these day periods changed into years to comply with the day year principle? The SDAs do just that and at least it is consistent but the SDAs dont do that with every case of predictive phrophecy which shows they are inconsistent too.

All claims of 1844-1914 is erronious because of this reason alone also. The truth is there is no time periods after the cross AD 31 is the end of the world legally.

12

People

by jw in

what makes people so evil and then claim to be a christian?

barry

Christians just as non christian people are all born in sin its our nature to sin. i once heard the story of a scorpian getting a ride across a swolen river to safety . The scorpian argued with the dog he wouldnt sting the dog and the dog argued back. Finally the dog gave in and gave the scorpian the ride across to save his life and just as they got to the other side surely the scorpian stung the dog. When asked why the scorpian replied 'Its my nature'. And its our nature.

WE will all be this way haveing a fallen human nature until Jesus comes again when we will be glorified and free from the presents of sin. Barry