Posts by bob1999

20

The December 31, 1924 Golden Age magazine

by cabasilas in

recently, i obtained some pdf copies of old golden age magazines.

i haven't had much time to read these but i just came across the december 31, 1924 issue.

i had heard the golden age was a bit odd...this confirms it.

bob1999

When was the traching that Cheops holds the key to the future abandoned by the WTS.
Oh, some great stuff about the polar ice caps on Mars and Radium extending life.

21

Dubs and witchcraft

by kittyeatzjdubs in

does anyone remember the awake (or was it watchtower?

) article that the borg put out about witchcraft?

i remember the picture of the women dancing on the front cover in front of the alter w/ the pentagram and everything on it.

awake Nov. 8 1999

The Bible's Viewpoint

What Is Behind Witchcraft?

"WITCHES." What does that word conjure up in your mind? Images of hags casting hurtful spells or of licentious women consorting with Satan? Contrary to that stereotype, many modern self-proclaimed witches seem like ordinary people. Some are respected professionals, such as lawyers, teachers, writers, and nurses. There has been a worldwide resurgence of religious movements that seem to border on the occult, such as nature religions and neopaganism. "You can go anywhere in Russia these days and witchcraft is a daily part of life," said a police officer in that country. The United States is home to an estimated 50,000 to 300,000 witches, or "Wiccans," as some call themselves.

Today the word "witch" is often used loosely and can mean different things to different people. The modern growth of witchcraft seems to be primarily related to a strain of goddess-worshiping, nature-based religion with a strong belief in psychic powers. Some witches are solitary-they practice their rituals alone, observing the change of seasons, phases of the moon, and other natural phenomena. Others worship and cast their spells in a coven, a group usually of 13 witches.

It is true that in the West, public perception of witchcraft today is radically different from the attitudes that fostered the witch-burning of the Middle Ages. Sporadically, however, there are still outbursts of wanton violence against witches. For example, in early October 1998 in Indonesia, machete-wielding gangs lynched more than 150 people suspected of being witches. In South Africa more than 2,000 cases of violence against witches, including 577 killings, were reported between 1990 and 1998. In the face of such extremes-ranging from interest in witchcraft to hatred of witches-how should Christians view the matter?

Unfulfilled Needs

What impels people to practice modern witchcraft? They claim that one factor is a reverence for nature and life. Some, in fact, are eager to explain that their worship does not include the sacrificing of animals in their rituals. Others say that they dabble in witchcraft as part of a search for people with whom they can share openness, trust, and common spiritual interests. "Everyone I know in the pagan movement is so friendly and open . . . They're wonderful people," says a modern witch. And many deny any involvement with Satan, asserting that there is no all-evil deity in their religious structure.

For many of them, the primary reason for becoming witches is a sense of spiritual emptiness and a disenchantment with mainstream religions. Speaking of her coven, Phyllis Curott, a Wiccan high priestess, says: "All of us were dissatisfied with the teachings and practices of the religions with which we had been raised." Modern witches, Curott explains, try to answer questions such as, 'How can we rediscover the sacred?' But is witchcraft the path to genuine spirituality?

True Spirituality-From Where?

The Bible clearly shows that Jehovah is the only true God and the Universal Sovereign. (Psalm 73:28; 1 Peter 1:15, 16; Revelation 4:11) He is inviting all people to seek him "and really find him." (Acts 17:27) Hence, genuine spirituality can be attained only by taking in accurate knowledge of the true God, Jehovah. This can be accomplished by studying his Word, the Holy Bible. "Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you," the Bible writer James assures us.-James 4:8.

God's Word, though, warns against a malicious source of evil spirituality. (1 John 4:1) It identifies Satan the Devil, the archenemy of Jehovah, and his demons as the source of much of the misguided spirituality prevalent today. According to the Bible, Satan "has blinded the minds" of many. He actually is "misleading the entire inhabited earth," including those who are involved in witchcraft-whether they claim to worship the Devil or not. Why is this so?-2 Corinthians 4:4; Revelation 12:9.

Many of the practices and rituals associated with modern witchcraft are strikingly similar to the uncanny aspects of Satanism. Hence, even so-called innocent curiosity can easily lead to occultism. Indeed, many have fallen prey to Satan's evil influence in this way.

Not to be ignored is the fact that occasionally practicers of modern witchcraft are drawn to it because they are hungry for power or revenge. "There are people who can call themselves witches and use it for fiendish purposes," said Jennifer, a modern witch. In any event, both benign and vengeful witches are in danger of coming completely under the control of Satan and the demons. Some witches may deny the existence of such evil spirit beings, but this makes them even more vulnerable to their deceptions.-Compare 1 Corinthians 10:20, 21.

The Bible condemns divination, sorcery, the practice of magic, the casting of spells, and any attempts to communicate with the dead. It clearly states: "Everybody doing these things is something detestable to Jehovah." (Deuteronomy 18:10-12) Of course, Christians are determined to "work what is good toward all," and in their ministry they have helped many to break free from all forms of spiritism. (Galatians 6:10; Acts 16:14-18) Nevertheless, true Christians shun any involvement with false worship, including any form of witchcraft.-2 Corinthians 6:15-17.

[Footnotes]

The term "nature religion" refers to the belief that the earth and all living things are part of the divine and share the same life-force; "neopaganism" refers to worship of pre-Christian gods.

Wiccans are followers of Wicca, which is "a pagan nature religion having its roots in pre-Christian western Europe," according to The American Heritage College Dictionary.

"The Bible's Viewpoint" series in the Awake! has answered such questions as "Is There Really a Devil?" (January 8, 1990, pages 12-13) and "Are Demons Real?" (April 8, 1998, pages 18-19).

[Picture Credit Line on page 26]

Picture Book of Devils, Demons and Witchcraft/Ernst and Johanna Lehner/Dover

26

Once saved always saved?

by greendawn in

at one extreme are people like the jws that we criticise for relying too much on works for their salvation and so they have to live through a lot of anxiety day after day out of fear of failing.

at the other extreme are those that say "i am saved by faith alone, once saved always saved, that's why jesus died for us" and seem to ignore completely the good works factor.

obviously the right balance is somewhere between the two but we need more sophisticated thinking to grasp it than just: i need works to be saved or i need only faith to be saved.

bob1999

Amen

26

Once saved always saved?

by greendawn in

at one extreme are people like the jws that we criticise for relying too much on works for their salvation and so they have to live through a lot of anxiety day after day out of fear of failing.

at the other extreme are those that say "i am saved by faith alone, once saved always saved, that's why jesus died for us" and seem to ignore completely the good works factor.

obviously the right balance is somewhere between the two but we need more sophisticated thinking to grasp it than just: i need works to be saved or i need only faith to be saved.

bob1999

Romans 7:14
We know that the law is spirital; but I am carnal, sold under sin. I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do what the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. So then it is NO LONGER I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. For I know nothing good dwells within me, that is, IN MY FLESH. I can will what is right, BUT CAN NOT do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want I do. Now if I do what I do not want, IT IS NO LONGER I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inmost self, but I see in MY MEMBERS another law at war with the law of my mind and MAKING me captive to the law of sin which dwells IN MY MEMBERS. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I of myself serve that law of God with my mind, But WITH MY FLESH I serve the law of sin.
8:1 THERE IS THEREFORE NOW NO CONDENNATION for those who are in Christ Jesus.

I find most people have trouble separating SPIRIT and FLESH. Clearly Paul does not have that trouble.

As for works, true faith will produce good works. Don't worry about it. It will just happen. Good works will not produce faith and those good works will count for nothing. They will not save you.

"What Christ did on the cross has saved us. We only have to beleive it and thats 100% conplete [that is, we have to believe it 100%]. The good works and the perfection of our character is only complete when christ comes [and feeds us in full measure from the tree of life] and is never 100% complete [until the feeding is complete] (I havent seen many perfect people walking around lately). The bible says in many ways we all offend. [that is, contune to offend, just like Paul]" Thanks Barry, my edits are in brackets.

Once saved always saved? Yes, as long as we keep the faith.

19

John 5:28,29

by stapler99 in

the witnesses understanding of this scripture was one of the things that i could never grasp.

"28 do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

they believe that the resurrection is the upcoming resurrection, but because death cleansed the resurrected ones of sin, it would be pointless to judge them on their past deeds, so "did good things" actually refers to what they did after their resurrection, and the judgement comes at the end of the 1000 years.

bob1999

OK, got it.
Freed from the grip of sin not from the consequences of sin (the second death). Baptizim frees us from both.
Romans 8:1
Thanks for the explanation.

23

He Wouldn't Sell to Me Because I'm Not a JW

by JW_Researcher in

this has got to be one of the silliest things i've had happen in a bit:

i wrote steve searle ([email protected]) who has literature for sale on e-bay (marley coles books on cd) and on his website at

http://www.geocities.com/searlsa123/watchtowerantiquarian

bob1999

I just sent Steve this email

subject: "Only sincere Bible students are welcome"

Steve, you know you can't do that. If you are selling things to the public you can not discriminate. It's against the law. You have to sell to anyone that has the money, sincere or not. You could be sued for refusing to sell to someone who you find to be not sincere enough. The law applies to all, even JW's. So get off your high horse. Either sell to everyone or don't sell at all. searlsa on ebay. Ebay will not allow you to discriminate. If I hear any reports of you discriminating on ebay I will turn you in.

19

John 5:28,29

by stapler99 in

the witnesses understanding of this scripture was one of the things that i could never grasp.

"28 do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

they believe that the resurrection is the upcoming resurrection, but because death cleansed the resurrected ones of sin, it would be pointless to judge them on their past deeds, so "did good things" actually refers to what they did after their resurrection, and the judgement comes at the end of the 1000 years.

bob1999

If the wages of sin is physical death then why, after being forgiven of our sins, would we still die?

19

John 5:28,29

by stapler99 in

the witnesses understanding of this scripture was one of the things that i could never grasp.

"28 do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

they believe that the resurrection is the upcoming resurrection, but because death cleansed the resurrected ones of sin, it would be pointless to judge them on their past deeds, so "did good things" actually refers to what they did after their resurrection, and the judgement comes at the end of the 1000 years.

bob1999

Narkissos,

How can one be first justified

"-- the Greek verb being the central Pauline term, dikaioô, ("to justify")"

and then have need to face judgement?

"Normally only death could free a man from sin (although perhaps not of judgement); "

If death clears man of the responsibility of sin then there is no need for grace.

We are only justified by the grace of God, made possible by the sacrifice of Christ, poured out by God according to our faith.

The Witnesses claim that death "pays" for sin. So when the bible says, "the wages of sin is death" they read that to mean the wages of sin is physical death and all will be resurrected to the 1000 year second chance to be judged only after.

But "the wages of sin" is, in fact, the second death. The WTS mis-interpretation of what the wages of sin really is, is the underpinning of a house of cards. If a JW could only see this one point the tower would fall.

Narkissos, how was that? I took my boots off first.

Peace

19

John 5:28,29

by stapler99 in

the witnesses understanding of this scripture was one of the things that i could never grasp.

"28 do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

they believe that the resurrection is the upcoming resurrection, but because death cleansed the resurrected ones of sin, it would be pointless to judge them on their past deeds, so "did good things" actually refers to what they did after their resurrection, and the judgement comes at the end of the 1000 years.

bob1999

Sorry about the outburst of anger. My grandmother started studying with the JW's in 1943. Thank God my father was 12 and had attended the baptist church and when my grandmother started draging him to the KH he did not buy it. My grandfather, an agnostic, said "he doesn't have to go if he doesn't want to". Thank God for my grandfather. My uncle (5 years younger than my dad, he didn't stand a chance) and his family are in "the truth" :-(

I grew up being told that my family and I would not live through the big "A" and would die forever. And we did not pray to the same god............

I, for some reason, have spent the last 2 years studing the WTS and it's beliefs. What a bunch of bull. I can't understand how my uncle and his family can't see how wrong this is. But it's all they have ever known. At some point don't we all have to take responsibility for our own relationship with God?
True my uncle has been taught all his life that Romans 6:7 is talking about human death, but he can read....he just doesn't......I mean, he must not.

I guess I just don't understand mind control and brain washing......

I just keep thinking the WTS's teaching is so off base I just know I can MAKE them understand.....
I am very frustrated.......

Thanks for the kind words

19

John 5:28,29

by stapler99 in

the witnesses understanding of this scripture was one of the things that i could never grasp.

"28 do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

they believe that the resurrection is the upcoming resurrection, but because death cleansed the resurrected ones of sin, it would be pointless to judge them on their past deeds, so "did good things" actually refers to what they did after their resurrection, and the judgement comes at the end of the 1000 years.

bob1999

Romans 6:7

I have no idea how anyone could misunderstand the meaning of "died" in that verse.

2 "....how can we who DIED to sin live in it?"
4 "....we were buried therefore with him by baptism into death....."
6".....we know that our old self was crucified with him...."

In verse 2 "died" clearly does not mean physical death. The man is writing a letter, how can he be dead?
In verse 3 "buried" clearly does not mean literally being covered by dirt.
In verse 6 "crucified" clearly does not mean nailed to a cross or a torture stake.
In verse 7 "dies" how in the world can this mean physical death? It is clearly referring to baptism.

A small child can clearly see this. Anyone who does not understand that Romans 6:1-7 is talking about baptism is not trying very hard or has allowed themselves to be deluded.

To say that "died" in verse 7 is physical death, is totally absurd. This makes me angry.....I'm going to go and kick something now.