Qcmbr

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Posts by Qcmbr

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  160

  Why I truly come in!

  by justmom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello everyone.... i would honestly like to share why i come to this site when i am able to.. i too, like many here spent my whole life inside the wt along with my husband who was born in.

  (i was 6) we have raised three wonderful sons now 27, 23, 21 who the youngest was almost 7 when we left and we were disfellowshipped.

  (for so-called apostacy of course)and since then all of us partake of the christ by eating and drinking the manna and his blood.

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  Qcmbr

  fair enough. I cannot go with you to the idea that a God was ever holding my hand and that I am letting go. I find that idea simply unsupported by anything other than your assertion which for me is not enough.

  Every believer argues for a store of knowledge which is bestowed upon them (they are chosen, a revelation is given, a voice is heard, a divine embrace is given etc.) This is the ego in action - information expressed and channelled through the I. Faith promotes an internal experience as evidence for a universal truth. This is exactly how the ego works, it promotes the personal experience as having universal meaning. I find the scientific method works the opposite way , it surprises the ego by explaining the phenomenon in an often counter intuitive way simply by experimentation and measurement and taking the I out of the picture.

  Faith said mankind was the final creation in the image of God.

  Science took mankind and said you are still changing and one ancestor was a worm.

  Faith said the earth was the centre of the universe and everything revolved around it.

  Science said that the earth orbits a singularly insignificant star on the tip of a common galaxy in a huge super cluster which isn't particularly significant.

  Faith said that you could sin.

  Science said that much of what we do is caused by genetic predispositions, fluctuating chemical situations, brain wiring , instinct and conditioning.

  Faith said you could live forever if you bow the knee and reject the apple.

  Science said you could live forever if they can fix our biological clock.

  Faith says that you must walk without 100% knowledge

  Science says you can walk any way you want but this is the physics that allows it.

  Faith said some people are special , some people are chosen, some people will get to Heaven.

  Science says everyone is special because you carry unique genetic material that took millions of years of recombination and mutation to make you.

  Faith says keep trying regardless of results.

  Science says you've got an incorrect hypothesis on your first failed experiment - go synthesise.

  Faith says you can heal people by prayer.

  Science says you can allow the body to heal by understanding pathogens, cells, drugs and medical procedure.

  Faith says the moon is a divine sign.

  Science says go and have a look.

  I don't like faith very much.
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  78

  God particle is 'found': Scientists at Cern expected to announce on Wednesday

  by cantleave in

  1. social
  2. current

  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2167188/god-particle-scientists-cern-expected-announce-higgs-boson-particle-discovered-wednesday.html.

  scientists 'will say they are 99.99% certain' the particle has been foundleading physicists have been invited to event - sparking speculation that higgs boson particle has been found'god particle' gives particles that make up atoms their mass.

  by rob cooper.

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  Qcmbr

  Too many leaps Sam - I'm still not certain why the Large Hadron collider isn't contaminated by virtual particles or incoming energy! I do get the equivalence of energy and matter but I don't think that's what Higgs is to do with (unless I've missed the point) - I'm fairly certain Higgs is all about explaining mass or to put it simplisticaly why do some particles behave as if they are travelling through a medium while others seem unencumbered. I don't get the seque to God is the source of all energy.

  I think that there are plenty of atheists and theists at Cern and at the other research facilities across the world.
• 
  160

  Why I truly come in!

  by justmom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello everyone.... i would honestly like to share why i come to this site when i am able to.. i too, like many here spent my whole life inside the wt along with my husband who was born in.

  (i was 6) we have raised three wonderful sons now 27, 23, 21 who the youngest was almost 7 when we left and we were disfellowshipped.

  (for so-called apostacy of course)and since then all of us partake of the christ by eating and drinking the manna and his blood.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Qcmbr

  Hmm - I'm pretty sure you initially suggested that I'm serving ' the god of greed and power which is the Adversary of truth' which seems hard to square with ' I don't reject everything you say'. Personally I'm happy to be categorised as such but only because it doesn't carry much emotional weight. It just seems that this prejudice precludes really ever understanding anything because you would always seem to have to decide if I was simply telling half truths in order to deceive (the normal modus operandi of the christian devil?)

  I do find that faith (simple definition - belief sans evidence) is a less effective route to knowledge and I wonder why I ever thought it was a virtue. I do find that faith to be a form of mind rot (i.e. reduces the ability to critically think) because it rejects a fundamental feature of sceptical enquiry (evidence.) Now if you'd like to redefine faith as the hope in something based upon evidence suggested elsewhere I could meet you on common ground (though I'd use the term inference instead) because it is such thinking that allows experiments to be conducted to find phenomenom that haven't been observed (like the Higgs Bosun.) I think religious faith however, isn't backed by an initial set of provable starting points but seems to infinitely regress to itself. Now faith may indeed sometimes get it right by coincidence or heuristic intuition (the Mormon avoidance of tobacco based upon a revelation and adhered to by faith has been found to be right by solid scientific evidence but faith also allowed mormons to be utterly socially racist) but that is correct outcomes from unsound starting points.

  As a sceptic (every theist is atheistic to everyone else's god(s)) I do want to promote the use of sceptical enquiry methods which privilege information over imagination, testing over revelation, peer review over conversion and constant doubt over absolute certainty.

  edit: I guess maybe I do represent Satan. I would definately tell you to try the apple. shrugs.
• 
  160

  Why I truly come in!

  by justmom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello everyone.... i would honestly like to share why i come to this site when i am able to.. i too, like many here spent my whole life inside the wt along with my husband who was born in.

  (i was 6) we have raised three wonderful sons now 27, 23, 21 who the youngest was almost 7 when we left and we were disfellowshipped.

  (for so-called apostacy of course)and since then all of us partake of the christ by eating and drinking the manna and his blood.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Qcmbr

  How do we converse further Sab if your summation of me is as an emissary of Satan. Surely you must reject everyting I say?
• 
  48

  Was There Ever A Poster Here That Realy Was a Watchtower Spy?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  since some believe that watctower regularly observes this site,did you ever know of a watchtower double agent here?.

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  Qcmbr

  If they do look at this site they will find exactly what they want to. Its not hard to quote mine whatever they want from the madness of apostacy through to the soulesness of atheists from the posts here. A spy with selective hearing can find anything here such is the richness and variety of thought on JWN.
• 
  160

  Why I truly come in!

  by justmom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello everyone.... i would honestly like to share why i come to this site when i am able to.. i too, like many here spent my whole life inside the wt along with my husband who was born in.

  (i was 6) we have raised three wonderful sons now 27, 23, 21 who the youngest was almost 7 when we left and we were disfellowshipped.

  (for so-called apostacy of course)and since then all of us partake of the christ by eating and drinking the manna and his blood.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Qcmbr

  Sab - To be fair I probably wound EP up because he was asking a serious question and you lured me into larking about with your Death Star siren call.

  Sorry EP!
• 
  160

  Why I truly come in!

  by justmom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello everyone.... i would honestly like to share why i come to this site when i am able to.. i too, like many here spent my whole life inside the wt along with my husband who was born in.

  (i was 6) we have raised three wonderful sons now 27, 23, 21 who the youngest was almost 7 when we left and we were disfellowshipped.

  (for so-called apostacy of course)and since then all of us partake of the christ by eating and drinking the manna and his blood.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Qcmbr

  Sab - I do often find myself in a fight and it a definite part of my online experience and yet normally its caused by vigorosly examining ideas. You'll hopefully have noticed that I haven't said anything personal here and I even went so far as to have a bit of fun with you - (and you ignored it you cad). The OP struck me as so familiar and I paused for a moment to wonder why. Then it hit me - its exactly how I used to be as a missionary. I'd bounce up to someones door and proceed to invite them to my truth. I sat and pondered that for a moment and asked myself if there was anything different between all the believers I'd ever met (and been). Hence my first post. It could have been an opportunity for you to go deep and think about what I said. You see no one thinks they are wrong. Everyone is selling the truth (sure the details are tweaked but its always the absolute 'truth') and the difference isn't really the product, its simply the methodolgy. The ONLY reason why people don't see the obvious truth being sold is because they don't use the correct methodology. Get that right and Jesus will be your Lord, Krishna will hear you and Thor will cast down his thunderbolt for you.

  Overdue paragraph break.

  The next thing I noticed is the misapplication of descriptive analogies to describe something that should be absolutely without need of a metaphor. As a mormon missionary I would say things like 'As the spirit of God rests upon you you will begin to feel the love of god burning within you, your testimony will grow.' This sentence is deliberately evasive in that it doesn't actually describe any mechanisms and allows the imagination to fill in the gap so that an idea of 'love ..burning' can be sufficiently manipulated to mean pretty much anything that approximates the desired result (group identification.) As soon as someone said something to Elder Qcmbr like 'I feel really good when I read the Book of Mormon' I'd be all over that and that would remind them that I'd told them about this spirit of God that would rest on them etc. In short religious language is ambiguous , like cold reading, so that post event it can be applied to the widest possible set of matching outcomes.

  Breathe.

  The next thought was that when anyone is selling their truth its almost always accompanied with attestations to it being wonderful, life enriching etc. Everyone who has joined the group is encouraged to present to the outside world the same sales smile and breathless excitement, everyone is positively bubbling over with excitement. JWs do it on the door even though as so many have candidly shared here that hides an inner disparity (of course that won't refer to any believers posting here who of course are full of the spirit and need to let you know how much everyone else is missing - its a rare believer who turns up and simply posts 'today is pretty carp' .)

  Scratch.

  And finally - it kinda just looks like once again its a primeval need to split people into similar groupings. If I came on here as a seperate poster (and didn't get caught by my ip address) and posted as a believer and shared all my LDS feelings (i.e. where I felt the spirit, it felt invigorating and full of love) without alluding to my actual LDS beliefs but simply my god belief and its positive effects I would be high fived by such posters as FHN, Snowbird, justmom, Mouthy etc. not because I shared their actual core belief but because I was in the 'believer' camp. In fact I still have a PM from a believer ages ago thanking me for sticking up for God - it didn't matter that had she thought about it I was, as a Mormon, probably the evil apostate in all other circumstances. In short its which general side you cheer for rather than thevalidity of the belief that is most important.

  Can we go back to Star Wars ? Much more fun.
• 
  48

  Was There Ever A Poster Here That Realy Was a Watchtower Spy?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  since some believe that watctower regularly observes this site,did you ever know of a watchtower double agent here?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Qcmbr

  lol
• 
  48

  Was There Ever A Poster Here That Realy Was a Watchtower Spy?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  since some believe that watctower regularly observes this site,did you ever know of a watchtower double agent here?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Qcmbr

  I suspect a spy might have a post count of zero.
• 
  160

  Why I truly come in!

  by justmom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello everyone.... i would honestly like to share why i come to this site when i am able to.. i too, like many here spent my whole life inside the wt along with my husband who was born in.

  (i was 6) we have raised three wonderful sons now 27, 23, 21 who the youngest was almost 7 when we left and we were disfellowshipped.

  (for so-called apostacy of course)and since then all of us partake of the christ by eating and drinking the manna and his blood.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Qcmbr

  oops EP - I'm still planking about.