Qcmbr

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Posts by Qcmbr

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  173

  Atheists: Lowest Retention Rate Next to JWs

  by breakfast of champions in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  article found here.. .

  those who grow up in an atheist household are least likely to maintain their beliefs about religion as adults, according to a study by georgetown university's center for applied research in the apostolate (cara).only about 30 percent of those who grow up in an atheist household remain atheists as adults.

  this "retention rate" was the lowest among the 20 separate categories in the study.. there were 1,387 atheists (weighted) in the survey.

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  Qcmbr

  Agreed cofty - in fact this forum allows me to express and explore opinions that would have my extended family kicking me out of their houses for.

  All to often a believer thinks they are giving a gift when they share some new bit of mythology (like my mother giving my kids Book of Mormon hero cards from her last visit to Utah) and get all huffy when confronted or questioned - especially when the first mystical brush off answer is further queried or rejected as fluff. Regarding my mother I'd be happily stunned if she would acept The God Delusion and read it but that ain't gonna' happen. Belief has been culturally taught as a one way street.
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  173

  Atheists: Lowest Retention Rate Next to JWs

  by breakfast of champions in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  article found here.. .

  those who grow up in an atheist household are least likely to maintain their beliefs about religion as adults, according to a study by georgetown university's center for applied research in the apostolate (cara).only about 30 percent of those who grow up in an atheist household remain atheists as adults.

  this "retention rate" was the lowest among the 20 separate categories in the study.. there were 1,387 atheists (weighted) in the survey.

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  Qcmbr

  FHN - I suspect you sometimes forget this is a discussion forum. Should you go to speakers corner in London I think you may also find people sharing strong opinions and shock horror - disagreeing! You seem to like sharing pretty pics and having yummy moments of reinforcment of all faith / spiritual beliefs etc. You might like to add this hangout to your web links as it sounds right up your street. http://pinterest.com/ Seriously - my wife can't get enough.
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  173

  Atheists: Lowest Retention Rate Next to JWs

  by breakfast of champions in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  article found here.. .

  those who grow up in an atheist household are least likely to maintain their beliefs about religion as adults, according to a study by georgetown university's center for applied research in the apostolate (cara).only about 30 percent of those who grow up in an atheist household remain atheists as adults.

  this "retention rate" was the lowest among the 20 separate categories in the study.. there were 1,387 atheists (weighted) in the survey.

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  Qcmbr

  I suspect in your normal life outside JWN you wouldn't hear too many vocal xians either.No? But on here they just won't stop ... :P
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  173

  Atheists: Lowest Retention Rate Next to JWs

  by breakfast of champions in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  article found here.. .

  those who grow up in an atheist household are least likely to maintain their beliefs about religion as adults, according to a study by georgetown university's center for applied research in the apostolate (cara).only about 30 percent of those who grow up in an atheist household remain atheists as adults.

  this "retention rate" was the lowest among the 20 separate categories in the study.. there were 1,387 atheists (weighted) in the survey.

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  Qcmbr

  Botch - an atheist who sees the danger of faith ( both to themselves and to their society ) will be very motivated to try and influence people. The recent pictures of a woman murdered for supposed adultery by religious thinkers stirs the blood of most people. Atheists can see quite clearly that faith is the common denominator and the mechanism that allows a suspension of rational logic also allows the suspension of moral thinking and makes possible the acceptance of such memes as eternal damnation, sin, scapegoats, sheep / goats, chosen / rejected, wheat / chaff , saved / lost and the capability to burn a heretic or shoot an adulterous woman. I'm proud that your friend had a discussion with you that forced you to confront important concepts. That this got in the way of a nice evening of drinking probably sucked but I suspect the woman who got shot by the faithful also had a bad day and my sympathy is actually with her rather than with your first world problem whinge.
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  173

  Atheists: Lowest Retention Rate Next to JWs

  by breakfast of champions in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  article found here.. .

  those who grow up in an atheist household are least likely to maintain their beliefs about religion as adults, according to a study by georgetown university's center for applied research in the apostolate (cara).only about 30 percent of those who grow up in an atheist household remain atheists as adults.

  this "retention rate" was the lowest among the 20 separate categories in the study.. there were 1,387 atheists (weighted) in the survey.

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  Qcmbr

  I didn't expect these results though since atheism isn't a movement like say secular humanism it's hard to define what they mean. Is this just a way of saying that those who aren't born into a religion tend to join a religion when they get older? I wouldn't be so surprised at that in a religious country such as the US. Being born an atheist no more inoculates you against faith than it grants immunity to measles. I also wonder whether marriage partners have a large sway in the process ( I can think of a few people in my former faith who were marriage converts .) If anything this just reinforces my hope that critical thinking , especially regarding faith, will become a core part of the curriculum. Religion should not be placed in a sacred bubble during school time in order to not offend the pious parent. Faith ( the requirement to believe without evidence) is the key to stupidity and educational establishments are negligent when they do not challenge it at every turn.

  I'd be very interested in seeing the figures for those who have been religious, done the homework and concluded there is no supernatural power. I think they would more closely define the definition of atheist ( I suspect non believing children are more likely to be agnostic and have no great preference either way.) Once a person has paid a price intellectually to take a position then I think it is much harder to change. I think it very unlikely that I would become religiously inclined again unless a superior being actually manifests ( and I don't mean in my stomach or in a dream or via a little voice behind my left ear - I can't believe in a God who plays parlour games and who can't even use a phone or a computer or some standard communication method.)

  A real being wont be promising 70 virgins, blood sacrifices, resurrection for long disassembled atoms, magic fruit and talking snakes or an imaginary justice system involving being infected with smallpox - they will bring higher technology and actual knowledge about physics, maths, astronomy and biology. Their appearance would elicit a golden age of technological advancement unless they are simply farmers in which case we will suffer an eternal Armageddon.
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  473

  How do I hear/feel God?

  by doinmypart in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a serious question.. i know people that hear/feel god (and see postings about people's experiences), but i have not experienced this.

  i have never heard anything audibly (or otherwise) nor "felt" anything inwardly.. i've prayed, read, quieted my thoughts, etc...but still nothing..

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  Qcmbr

  I am very conscious that many posters say things in novel and concise ways that often capture exactly what I want to say. I'm quite honoured to borrow , steal and plagirise like heck :)
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  473

  How do I hear/feel God?

  by doinmypart in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a serious question.. i know people that hear/feel god (and see postings about people's experiences), but i have not experienced this.

  i have never heard anything audibly (or otherwise) nor "felt" anything inwardly.. i've prayed, read, quieted my thoughts, etc...but still nothing..

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  Qcmbr

  Athesim isn't a worldview - surely you can see that! Secular humanism is a worldview, Catholicism is a worldview. Having no belief in Gods is not a worldview (it does not require any cognitive behaviour unlike say Stalinism.) The belief or not in Gods OR humans (worship of Mao for example) all make for very faulty decison making. Faith is a dangerous behaviour and even if an individual holds to a particular faith they are more likely to be in danger from other faith based worldviews than they are from democratic, secular rulers.

  Would you be happy to have your current country tec (I'm going to guess the US) handed over to the Taliban or to the evangelical right or to the Mormons or to Communists?

  tec - I will grant you that belief in a God means by a strict definition of atheism you do not qualify however, I'm trying to reinforce the reminder that you only believe in one God but you have rejected all other Gods just as all atheists have done. For a cultural reason you have accepted a God available to your mind (for example you wouldn't have believed in your Christ 5000 years ago and dare I say 100 years ago because your christ seems to be a reflection of modern sensibilities rather than the biblical Jesus who reflected 100-200AD culture.)
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  473

  How do I hear/feel God?

  by doinmypart in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a serious question.. i know people that hear/feel god (and see postings about people's experiences), but i have not experienced this.

  i have never heard anything audibly (or otherwise) nor "felt" anything inwardly.. i've prayed, read, quieted my thoughts, etc...but still nothing..

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  Qcmbr

  tec - atheists are always the majority - no one is a theist to all gods. I know what you are saying but I totally disagree. Atheism doesn't rely on faith and has no political motivation. Now when a worldview adopts atheism (such as Stalinist Communism) then all that happens is religious people join the ranks of those whom the ideology (Stalinism - NOT atheism which has no ideology) will destroy. Stalinist communism is faith without God. It is faith that I hate (Gods and faeries are not too important in the grand scheme of things - they come and go. )
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  473

  How do I hear/feel God?

  by doinmypart in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a serious question.. i know people that hear/feel god (and see postings about people's experiences), but i have not experienced this.

  i have never heard anything audibly (or otherwise) nor "felt" anything inwardly.. i've prayed, read, quieted my thoughts, etc...but still nothing..

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  Qcmbr

  sab - did you see my own name on that list. There are two ideas here: faith and belief change and morph the more social power they obtain (and the more violent they become - no exceptions - religions when in the dominant position kill opposers and often by very torturous methods - history is a more powerful lesson than any modern day pretentions to free will.) The other idea is that we are NO DIFFERENT from any other human beings. Only a few years ago Jews put Jews in gas chambers, a few hundred years earlier Catholics burnt Protestants, more recently christians genocidally murdered muslims in Serbia and Christian militants massacred muslims in Karatina and had the favour returned in Damour. People of faith have an additional reason to kill and from the earliest sacrificial murders of pagans through the 80000 sacrifice temple opening ceremonies of the Aztecs onto the Mormon Danites religious groups in power kill. My prejudice against faith is honed over a bloody history of faith based crimes. Deep down humans have the ability to kill. Faith is a great enabler in that action.

  That you personally are (I guess) a moral person who would not kill is fine. That you cannot accept that in different circumstances, with different cultural upbringing and different worldviews you wouldn't utterly change your moral stance and could well be found ripping out a sacrifices heart is , may I suggest , simply naive. You are who you are because your culture allows you certain cognitive luxuries and bestowes upon you the fruits of eons of human experimental thought (and yet still you choose the blood soaked bible but I digress). To imagine that somehow you are not a culturally shaped individual and that you would consistenly be the moral you of now regardless of time, place, culture or prevailing worldviews is a triumph of your self regard over blunt reality. The heart ripping priest of South America could potentially be the care home assistant and after hours animal rescue volunteer of today. What I'm saying is our culture evolves but we as humans are lttle different over recorded history. History tells me that faith is utterly dangerous. You may choose to be offended - I choose to see one cause of the darkness in man. The huge surprise for me is that my faith filled life was far less moral than my humanist secular life, my capability for evil acts has reduced now that I owe no allegience to a higher being who is unconstrained by morality.
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  473

  How do I hear/feel God?

  by doinmypart in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a serious question.. i know people that hear/feel god (and see postings about people's experiences), but i have not experienced this.

  i have never heard anything audibly (or otherwise) nor "felt" anything inwardly.. i've prayed, read, quieted my thoughts, etc...but still nothing..

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  Qcmbr

  I don't know what these symbols mean I just felt I needed to put them there. :)

  Cantleave - Dawkins - I really like his way of thinking.