Shrugs - sometimes there are no arguments that can be made with someone who has come to the table with only non-negotiable terms. Still the board had simmered down a fair bit so at least its a bit bubblier, it seems to thrive on the odd bushfire.
Posts by Qcmbr
-
699A truce between Atheists and Non-Atheists?
by palmtree67 inricky gervais tweeted this 11/14/12 and i totally agree with it:.
"there are good atheists and bad atheists.
there are good believers and bad believers.. no god has ever changed that.".
-
-
-
699
A truce between Atheists and Non-Atheists?
by palmtree67 inricky gervais tweeted this 11/14/12 and i totally agree with it:.
"there are good atheists and bad atheists.
there are good believers and bad believers.. no god has ever changed that.".
-
-
Qcmbr
AGuest - do you ever tire of dredging every possible itty bit of twist on everything? If you so wish to extract a single idea from a very simple concept (and yes the 'Marketplace of ideas' is it in a nutshell - well spotted) and bugger with it seventy times seven such that by the time you've finished you've spun a whole fairytale about how measuring must be done with YOUR spiritual guide then I can't stop you but just have to sit there and accept that you don't want to converse , you want to perform. For all your words and all your rhetoric - you can't see past yourself sometimes.
The metaphor was not about how we measure, nor who our peers are or should be , or any such other tortured subtlety; it was simply about the ability to disassociate oneself from your ideas idea such that you can reject it when the time comes. Too many people sink themselves into an idea and won't let go and get passionate over bad ideas. Ideas that have integrity will rise to the top if allowed to be discussed and critiqued. Ideas that need the cover and protection of respect, reverance and mystery are somewhat intellectually weaker in my experience.
You also forget AG that I and most posters here used spiritual 'measuring sticks' for most of our lives. Always try and keep in mind there are few atheists/non-believers/doubters here who have always been such. The invitation is to benefit from our experiments with both sides - you might enjoy being an atheist :)
-
452
Faith... and Trust: The Same Things?
by AGuest inin a discussion with some other dear ones, the question was asked as to what such ones put their faith in.
in response to one comment that"one can't function without faith," another disagreed, stating ones can, that "many do so every day... the ones who have trust" (in things like the sun rising in the east versus the west).
that trust extended to "faith" based "on nature and the natural order of things.
-
-
Qcmbr
one extra thing and hopefully im off your case.
im not afraid of you as a person,im afraid of belief, thecertainty it engenders blinds people into abusive relationships even when they truly feel they are doing good. At the etreme end it allows devout men to flyaeroplanes into buildings at the subtle end it sends a young man filled with love in his heart to teach with suposed authority cult teachings and convert people to mormonism. yes i absolutely fearbelief.
-
452
Faith... and Trust: The Same Things?
by AGuest inin a discussion with some other dear ones, the question was asked as to what such ones put their faith in.
in response to one comment that"one can't function without faith," another disagreed, stating ones can, that "many do so every day... the ones who have trust" (in things like the sun rising in the east versus the west).
that trust extended to "faith" based "on nature and the natural order of things.
-
-
Qcmbr
but you are preaching, you admitted some time ago that you had a divine mandate to share the words of J here, you are adamant that you are a slave of Christ and that he speaks to you, you have openly stated that your spiritual gifts are expanding so that now you are able to perceive spiritually the motivations of other people and finally you do have followers who are testifying on your behalf and are beginning to adopt your speech patterns, idioms, internal language, worship behaviour and are starting to experience co visions with you.
exactly the same happened with JS way before he created a church. He too had a devoted group who really felt like god was revealing new insights to them, who grew closer due to persecution, who felt assured of divine manifestations in their lives.
apols stupid phone.
-
452
Faith... and Trust: The Same Things?
by AGuest inin a discussion with some other dear ones, the question was asked as to what such ones put their faith in.
in response to one comment that"one can't function without faith," another disagreed, stating ones can, that "many do so every day... the ones who have trust" (in things like the sun rising in the east versus the west).
that trust extended to "faith" based "on nature and the natural order of things.
-
-
Qcmbr
Still here , phew.
Ive been lying awake this morning mulling over this situation. I think this thread has derailed and I request a small amount more indulgence because I wanted to post just a few quotes from LDS history from both JS and followers just because I want to illustrate styles, content and themes common to those in the flush of faith. Once trust is won and faith exercised it becomes difficult to return to a state of neutrality.
These were days never to be forgotten; to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim andThummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, "interpreters," the history or record called "The Book of Mormon."
Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines—
Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter...
Would you think it strange if I relate what I have seen in vision in relation to this interesting theme[, the resurrection]? Those who have died in Jesus Christ may expect to enter into all that fruition of joy when they come forth, which they possessed or anticipated here. So plain was the vision, that I actually saw men, before they had ascended from the tomb, as though they were getting up slowly. They took each other by the hand and said to each other, "My father, my son, my mother, my daughter, my brother, my sister." And when the voice calls for the dead to arise, suppose I am laid by the side of my father, what would be the first joy of my heart? To meet my father, my mother, my brother, my sister; and when they are by my side, I embrace them and they me. . . .
You don't know me; you never knew my heart. No man knows my history. I cannot tell it: I shall never undertake it. I don't blame any one for not believing my history. If I had not experienced what I have, I could not have believed it myself. . . . When I am called by the trump of the archangel and weighed in the balance, you will all know me then.
Joseph Smith is a great man, a man of principle, a straight forward man; no saintish long-faced fellow, but quite the reverse. Indeed some stumble because he is such a straight forward, plain spoken, cheerful man, but that makes me love him the more. . . . I have seen and been in the company of Joseph, and heard him speak several times. I love him, and believe him to be a Prophet of God, and called to do a great work in these last days on the earth.
-
452
Faith... and Trust: The Same Things?
by AGuest inin a discussion with some other dear ones, the question was asked as to what such ones put their faith in.
in response to one comment that"one can't function without faith," another disagreed, stating ones can, that "many do so every day... the ones who have trust" (in things like the sun rising in the east versus the west).
that trust extended to "faith" based "on nature and the natural order of things.
-
-
Qcmbr
Loz , started this post to you but it's hopefully going to be read by a few more, - I just sat and read the bones and blood revelation AG had while posting on her forum. You guys are creating something quite worrying. You are all getting sucked into it and adding your own mini revelations / claims to gifts of the spirit and ideas about the importance of this Jaheshuah's ( you've all - the ones supporting AGs spiritual gifts - started to use this name now having seemingly dropped the name Jesus) blood dialysis. You are free to do what you will of course. I only offer a voice of concerned warning based upon concrete experience of unwittingly teaching and experiencing emotive , spiritual, love filled and persuasive religious behaviour.
When I was a missionary I was very good at persuading/encouraging people to believe in 'Christ'. Many times both I and them were reduced to tears so powerful were the spiritual feelings. Of course both you and I now agree that I was of course talking rubbish because any spiritual messages that we , as Mormons and people we were teaching had, cannot have been divine since they were wrapped in BoM theology, unless God really is Mormon. Once I remember being part of a revelation. We were talking about the holy spirit. In LDS theology this is a real person who has not received a body (yet?) and is able to communicate spirit to spirit (Jesus did it physically and as a resurrected being is unable to enter inside the body and access the spirit hence why the Holy Spirit takes up that job after Jesus' resurrection). While discussing this with a young mother 'we' (can't actually remember who) said that the Holy Spirit understands us so well because it is our Heavenly Mother. We all stopped talking - Chills down the spine - wide eyes - choking back tears etc. What an amazing revelation. This next bit is fundamental - within LDS theology this just fitted so beautifully, it seemed so apt, so neat and so clean, so obvious. We all had that moment of deep reverence tinged with that electric feeling of oh my gosh, we just received some deep spiritual insight from god right here and now. We all shared it, we all confirmed it to each other and we were all certain it was the power of the Holy Spirit coursing through our minds and bodies.
Turns out LDS theology categorically states that the Holy Ghost is male. We never talked about our revelation again.
Lets focus in on what is happening as you share AGs 'revelations'. I am almost 100% certain that what I described above you will have read dispassionately because (forgive me I'm going to bold this) THE NATURE AND GENDER OF THE HOLY GHOST PLAYS NO PART IN JW THINKING BECAUSE THE SPIRIT IS SIMPLY A FORCE AND AS EX-JWS THERE IS NO EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT. Here's the kicker. AGs revelation regarding blood only resonates as something special because blood is such a fundamental part of JW/Ex-JW thinking. You're preprogrammed to find it interesting. Much like hearing your name being called in a crowd. This information on supposed two way blood transfusions is nothing to do with xian traditional theology ( which keeps the idea of blood closer to Judaic traditional ideas) but is everything to do with JWs. As an ex lds member the whole blood fixation is silly just as the Mormon fixation with polygamy is silly to you.
I put it to you that you are all sliding into a cultlike situation where you have fully internalised, accepted and begun to share in AGs visions and are following her waiting for her next divine revelation. To disagree with any of her revelations would be tantamount to disagreeing with god. You have created a leader. She has even indirectly alluded to this by saying some are at the front, some are in the middle and some are at the back ( of course Christ is at the head, almost all xian leaders are keen to point this out.) I am genuinely worried. Some people are now happily posting and glorying in AGs spiritual gifts.
I've also been alarmed at AGs claim to be returning here to help out those who are receptive. I am sure many will think I am way over the line here. I may well even be banned , so be it, but I'm sad to see this forum used as a recruitment location. This is not said out of maliciousness or in anger but in genuine concern that vulnerable people , trusting people and believers reeling from leaving the JWs will all too easily be swayed by someone very overtly running a forum church, someone who is giving revelations , claiming direct divine intuition and the ability to spiritually discern individual posters motivations and where preaching is announced 'to the house of Israel' and finished with a self styled 'slave of Christ' reminder.
If this is it for me, then so long and thanks for all the fish! You've truly been a great milestone and important part of my life.
-
19
they just refuse to get trapped! (mice)
by nuthouse escapee init's now "game on" between me and the mice.
my landlady put 15 traps down throughout their apartment on the first floor.
in 2 weeks i caught the 5 not so bright mice.
-
-
-
699
A truce between Atheists and Non-Atheists?
by palmtree67 inricky gervais tweeted this 11/14/12 and i totally agree with it:.
"there are good atheists and bad atheists.
there are good believers and bad believers.. no god has ever changed that.".
-
-
Qcmbr
Woaha PSac - are you back! Hope so.
-
699
A truce between Atheists and Non-Atheists?
by palmtree67 inricky gervais tweeted this 11/14/12 and i totally agree with it:.
"there are good atheists and bad atheists.
there are good believers and bad believers.. no god has ever changed that.".
-
-
Qcmbr
Phatic communication isn't the only way to help people. I wasn't treated with kid gloves or respect when I first joined this site and I'm very grateful for that. I agree that intuitive people can be turned off by criticical treatments but by the same token analytical people can be invigorated by it. I've seen the 'have a piece of pie' approach on the other forum and that obviously works for some people. If this forum turns into that then I'll probably move on as I have different needs.
I think that many personal attacks do come way too close to the knuckle and sometimes I read a thread wincing at the comments but overall teh vast number of threads are squarely focused on the JW experience and are enlightening, uplifting, bonding and universal. It may just be me but I find the most animosity on threads where a poster puts themselves firmly in the picture and throws out some unprovable assertion and get's all huffy when challenged and it descends from there into a playground pile on.
Let's not seek to neuter each other. Let's leave the choices and options to mods and owners.
-
4
Are we sure cave paintings were done by humans?
by Qcmbr inhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he7ge7sogrk.
-
-