Posts by Qcmbr

312

The Stone the Builders Rejected

by sabastious in

in the first post in this series i discussed the identity of the watchtower as per revelation 13. the second post dealt with the identity of the harlot and the scarlet beast.

this post will deal with the third element "the image of the beast", lets read revelation 13:15-17:.

the second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

Qcmbr

Strypes, ironically you cite the no true Scotsman fallacy and then use it beautifully in describing Cofty's experience. Well done.

There is a very devout Calvinist at work who would give our more fervent members a run for their money. He is adamant that I was never a Christian and that is why I cannot see or understand the self evident truths of Calvinist God. He includes all born agains, Catholics, liberal Christians, heretical offshoots like JWs , Mormons and SDAs in the same boat. Almost no one on this forum would qualify as a Christian to him.

As a former Christian I can affirm I was as committed and as believing as anyone here. I was less touched by the full on visionary style Christianity than some, I was much less verbally effusive in the love bombing 'Im a slave mwah' style Christianity, I was not a 'straining over a gnat' gotta quote a wall of text peppered with scriptures Christian , I was not a 'god chats to me daily at bedtime' style Christian but I was a devout, try my best, pray hard, get moved by music/human acts of kindness/ inspirational speeches/natures beauty/ vastness of space/love/ hope/dreams/ideals/virtue/endurance Christian, felt as though the spirit did give me guidance, felt surges of emotion like love and hope when discussing or contemplating the divine, felt like I'd had the spirit wash over me many times and act as a constant moral guide , well read scripturally, served my fellow people, evangelising , praying for my enemies christian.

Of course, now that I see it for what it is and share that knowledge, I was never a Christian , I could never have been. Silly thing is, when I was a Christian I used to say the same thing about people who I knew who had fallen away.

29

Proof that Bible is a Hoax

by Monsieur in

if the bible is really a very intricate hoax, what is the objective?.

i've read some theories that it has been used to succesfully make a 'business' of religion.. is this really it?

to make money?.

Qcmbr

Bibles write themselves. One story gets shared at a campfire amongst not very skeptical people (normally children and credulous adults ) and they adopt this story as true and give it sacred place in their culture ( sacred is another way of saying 'don't question or doubt' ) Another similar story gets shared and so on. Storytellers have different motivations, some are hoaxers seeking a bit of glory, some are political manipulators seeking power, some are social manipulators seeking to unify or objectify certain groups, some are subject to perception failures and poor memory and some are mentally ill. As long as the story resonates and produces an emotional response it is given much greater weight by the person who is affected. Rousing stories of war become scripture to warlike Vikings, Hebrews and Persians, vengeful stories of floods and supernatural murder are beloved by small insecure and endangered societies like Ancient Israel, medieval Europe etc., myths about fabulous rewards and divine sexy time appeal to poor patriarchal societies like Hindus and ancient Arabs, stories about eternal families and animals acting like humans gets matriarchal societies and groups on board like the women's instutute and so on.

This is the pattern for all religious writing , this is how the Book of Mormon, Dianetics, Genesis, Bhagvad Gita, The Shepherd of Hermas, Koran, Little Red Book, Epic of Gilgamesh, Beouwulf, Book of the Dead, Vol Popli and so on get written, accepted, believed and made sacred.

43

Trend of Fewer Baptisms Continues: Latest JW Conventions in New Zealand

by steve2 in

the round of "international" conventions that started in the middle of last year in the states "wrapped" up last weekend in new zealand.

there was some media converage (from which i derived the information that follows).

(someone who knows how to copy links may be able to provide the relevant media links?).

Qcmbr

Was reading a discussion over on an ex-mo / fading mo board where reference was made to an admission made by an LDS official that the members are leaving in large numbers and it has got the higher church leaders very worried. Someone also made the astute observation that the people leaving now comprise of a higher number of committed members. A high recruiting group will attract and shed flaky people all the time but it's viability rests on its core members and it's the core that Mormonism is losing. Baptisms have reached maintenance levels in most of the West and growth of 1% is only in numbers not in attending members( I.e. there is a 1% growth but all of that is in inactive members so if we have 100 active members and 100 inactive then there are 2 baptised and 2 go inactive so now we have 100 active and 102 inactive but a membership increase of 1%). The other point they made is that resignations are up. Only active members tend to resign since inactives have moved in with their lives and are less likely to bother with paperwork.

36

What argument is there for a single God?

by Qcmbr in

mormon culture is replete with the concept of multiple gods and requires it to work.

other than a few biblical references does anyone have any compelling arguments for why any god, deist , creationist or full on personal god would - of necessity- be alone.

the argument seems somewhat weaker if the gender is applied as well.

Qcmbr

Thanks for all responses. I think its clear that tradition and scriptural reading apart there is no real reason for a god to be a sole being except we like heirarchical patterns and concepts like omniscience which suit a top dog rather than a pantheon. Love seems a much overused concept and motivation for a largely empty , barren and hostile universe with a tiny smattering of self conscious former hydrogen atoms who have barely survived on a life threatening planet. Its as if our awareness of self and the imminent end of our own life manifests in a group pretence of eternal life and the unending perfect man.

36

What argument is there for a single God?

by Qcmbr in

mormon culture is replete with the concept of multiple gods and requires it to work.

other than a few biblical references does anyone have any compelling arguments for why any god, deist , creationist or full on personal god would - of necessity- be alone.

the argument seems somewhat weaker if the gender is applied as well.

Qcmbr

Is the ability to create an intrinsic requirement of god or merely an emergant property , in other words can a being be a god without creating anything, for the god = love team, can you be a god of love if you do not create?

36

What argument is there for a single God?

by Qcmbr in

mormon culture is replete with the concept of multiple gods and requires it to work.

other than a few biblical references does anyone have any compelling arguments for why any god, deist , creationist or full on personal god would - of necessity- be alone.

the argument seems somewhat weaker if the gender is applied as well.

Qcmbr

AG - feel free.

36

What argument is there for a single God?

by Qcmbr in

mormon culture is replete with the concept of multiple gods and requires it to work.

other than a few biblical references does anyone have any compelling arguments for why any god, deist , creationist or full on personal god would - of necessity- be alone.

the argument seems somewhat weaker if the gender is applied as well.

Qcmbr

Return - mormonism has a foundational concept that god is a glorified man who went through a similar mortal experience to us. The ultimate aim of mormon thinking is to prepare us to become our own gods. God is a title not a sole being, a title applicable to all those who have proven themselves worthy of becoming as god. To be a god one must be married as the cycle starts again, prepare world, populate it with children, be god of that world etc. There is no proof of multiple or single gods.

36

What argument is there for a single God?

by Qcmbr in

mormon culture is replete with the concept of multiple gods and requires it to work.

other than a few biblical references does anyone have any compelling arguments for why any god, deist , creationist or full on personal god would - of necessity- be alone.

the argument seems somewhat weaker if the gender is applied as well.

Qcmbr

If God is the father where did the feminine come from? Is god both sexes?

36

What argument is there for a single God?

by Qcmbr in

mormon culture is replete with the concept of multiple gods and requires it to work.

other than a few biblical references does anyone have any compelling arguments for why any god, deist , creationist or full on personal god would - of necessity- be alone.

the argument seems somewhat weaker if the gender is applied as well.

Qcmbr

Then why create something disharmonious? If the initial state is perfect harmony and then you purposefully create a universe which is less than you ( Satan was prior to the Fall) are you not intentionally diminishing yourself and rejecting your own perfection. Was this triune being more or less after the atonement?

36

What argument is there for a single God?

by Qcmbr in

mormon culture is replete with the concept of multiple gods and requires it to work.

other than a few biblical references does anyone have any compelling arguments for why any god, deist , creationist or full on personal god would - of necessity- be alone.

the argument seems somewhat weaker if the gender is applied as well.

Qcmbr

..but God is still single in the sense he/she/it has no one to share anything with intellectually, no one can ever understand god unless they are also a god? Like the last man on earth surrounded by worms and cockroaches. Why would this sole being exist and why create such inferior creatures to relate to?