Qcmbr

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Posts by Qcmbr

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  19

  The Mormons would not let me speak at my Dad's funeral

  by FormerMormon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  --because i no longer nelieve.

  i was excommunicated for "apostasy".

  that was their rationale for not allowing me to speak at his funeral last month.

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  Qcmbr

  Wow - that is awful. Hope they wake up and apologise.
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  46

  Crazy Religions

  by Qcmbr in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was reading a good article regarding the relative 'craziness' of faiths (blog) and they mentioned a lot about mormons.

  in short they talked about the socially accepted craziness (as opposed to actual mental illness) of mainstream , culturally accepted faiths v those that are relatively new.

  we see scientology as more crazy than catholicism if we fall into the trap of judging without consideration but when examined all religions have very crazy elements.

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  Qcmbr

  Parakeet, I agree it was amazing to see no triumphalism in my loss of faith. Made me realise that I'd been fighting a war , as a believer, on a battleground I'd made up. What I saw as persecution and abuse was more often than not illustrative facts and the harsh but justified comparison between my belief and the historical results of those beliefs. As a believer I refused to accept that the skeptical posts were attacking ideas and demanded in my own whiny posts that we move the debate away from the really painful areas ( facts, history and logic) to areas I felt equal (persecution, name calling) by reframing other posters posts as personal attacks. I chose to make things about persecution because then the content of a post can be ignored and rejected. Evolution? pffft they said my faith was crazy how dare they.

  All along I made my faith all about everyone and anyone who disagreed all about me. A cunning but self defeating tactic. Thankfully I learnt so much from the threads I simply observed that , added to other research, I came to a strong self realisation that I was simply wrong.
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  25

  Didn't Jesus symbolically give a blood transfusion for all of mankind?

  by yadda yadda 2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jesus poured out his life blood, his soul, on behalf of mankind.

  the wine taken at the memorial of christ's death represents this life, given as a sacrifice to atone for adamic sins.

  jesus said that unless you eat of his flesh and drink of his blood, you have no life in yourself.

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  Qcmbr

  YY2 - blood transfusions are an issue in the health decisions of many simply because of the effects of faith. Faith allows anyone with a god complex or desire to preach the drive to say anything they want while simultaneously claiming they aren't responsible for it because it's god's word and they are simply the messenger ( even bible Jesus played this card) . As an atheist I can see why having a spiritual gotcha answer is desirable for a faith motivated ex JW, it allows a supposed tool that threatens a JW canard while being rendered useless against personal faith ,but I see faith as the real issue not simply one batsh!t and dangerous manifestation of it. For me, I will bang this drum not in some desire to do battle with firm believers but to hopefully share a salient truth for those experiencing a faith crisis. Sure we may all one day rejoice in the victory over irrational faith justified avoidance of transfusions but until we consistently destroy the root of this irrationality, faith, then another preacher will spring up and dupe their followers to do something equally tragic.
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  46

  Crazy Religions

  by Qcmbr in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was reading a good article regarding the relative 'craziness' of faiths (blog) and they mentioned a lot about mormons.

  in short they talked about the socially accepted craziness (as opposed to actual mental illness) of mainstream , culturally accepted faiths v those that are relatively new.

  we see scientology as more crazy than catholicism if we fall into the trap of judging without consideration but when examined all religions have very crazy elements.

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  Qcmbr

  Hi Cold Steel, it was such a shock to me to find out what living in Utah was like in the early days because now that Mormonism is ultra respectable and SLC is beautiful and prosperous it is hard to see how it could have been anything else. Here is one primary source that I found very illuminating. There are lots more which I can provide on request but I would ask that you start with this one: This is the story of the most notorious of Brigham Young's wives, Wife No. 19

  http://archive.org/details/wifenoorstoryofl00youniala

  This story does not focus on what Joseph did or said but on what Brigham did. Joseph had his own set of totalitarian ideas such as breaking the free press ,being crowned King of the world, marching on Kirtland at the head of an army to reclaim it in blood etc. but we can look at those later if you'd like.
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  46

  Crazy Religions

  by Qcmbr in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was reading a good article regarding the relative 'craziness' of faiths (blog) and they mentioned a lot about mormons.

  in short they talked about the socially accepted craziness (as opposed to actual mental illness) of mainstream , culturally accepted faiths v those that are relatively new.

  we see scientology as more crazy than catholicism if we fall into the trap of judging without consideration but when examined all religions have very crazy elements.

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  Qcmbr

  Parakeet , here's my turning point post- http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/166727/1/Thanks-for-all-the-fish. I'd do a proper link but I'm on an iPad.
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  46

  Crazy Religions

  by Qcmbr in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was reading a good article regarding the relative 'craziness' of faiths (blog) and they mentioned a lot about mormons.

  in short they talked about the socially accepted craziness (as opposed to actual mental illness) of mainstream , culturally accepted faiths v those that are relatively new.

  we see scientology as more crazy than catholicism if we fall into the trap of judging without consideration but when examined all religions have very crazy elements.

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  Qcmbr

  Ldmomo, I found myself reading the list going, ' that's crazy' and then I reminded myself what this thread was about and had a little chuckle.
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  46

  Jehovah’s Witnesses and psychiatric diagnoses?

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jehovahs witnesses and psychiatric diagnoses?.

  today i added a new article to my blog sharing information from a 1983 study published in the journal for the scientific study of religion addressing religious affiliation and psychiatric diagnoses.

  this article pulls information from an excellent academic study that is often misunderstood and therefore underutilized for its value.

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  Qcmbr

  In some ways this is good. I saw a lot of mentally abnormal people get a lot of love and acceptance in my own former religion and I often wondered what would have become of them without the church. Many of these people were fully functioning but socially reclusive and church gave them hope , purpose and structure. This is one area where I think religion can excel and I would expect to see a higher incidence of mental issues in the same way I would expect to find more sick people in a hospital.
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  46

  Crazy Religions

  by Qcmbr in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was reading a good article regarding the relative 'craziness' of faiths (blog) and they mentioned a lot about mormons.

  in short they talked about the socially accepted craziness (as opposed to actual mental illness) of mainstream , culturally accepted faiths v those that are relatively new.

  we see scientology as more crazy than catholicism if we fall into the trap of judging without consideration but when examined all religions have very crazy elements.

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  Qcmbr

  Thanks for these illustrations Cofty, knowledge rocks. I'm off to look at Russian famines.
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  46

  Crazy Religions

  by Qcmbr in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was reading a good article regarding the relative 'craziness' of faiths (blog) and they mentioned a lot about mormons.

  in short they talked about the socially accepted craziness (as opposed to actual mental illness) of mainstream , culturally accepted faiths v those that are relatively new.

  we see scientology as more crazy than catholicism if we fall into the trap of judging without consideration but when examined all religions have very crazy elements.

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  Qcmbr

  Tec - you are partially correct but I'd like to expand the definition a little. You get atheists who are democrats and a subset of them are child abusers. This, hopefully minuscule, set of people has three overlaid convictions which on further analysis will be subdividable into further groupings. Within each grouping there may be behaviour or assumptions that are 'crazy' to mainstream society and then there will be behaviours and thought processes that are 'crazy' when analysed rationally. Society agrees that children don't want to be abused so something thinking they do is assigned a 'crazy' evaluation. Republicans think that Democrat policies are 'crazy'. Science tells us that belief in a 6000 year old world and a flood causing Jehovah is 'crazy' but many Republicans may well think that the atheist position is 'crazy'. In short craziness is both a social tagging system and an intrinsic quality of some behaviour.

  The article pointed this out quite well. All religious faiths recognise the craziness in their peers but are blind to their own; fashion encourages health damaging behaviour that science can point out but the fashion industry is blind to. A believer or non believer are all parts of many sub groups who may or may take part in social or scientific tagged craziness.

  I think that faith based religions , including personal religions of one or two believers, are scientifically shown to be crazy because all physical assumptions ( for example the biblical flood ) made by faith based religions tend to fail 100% ( I will agree there is evidence that social structures in faiths can be beneficial to mental health but the lack of preference for any one religion argues against a specific god blessing those believers.) Western society is beginning to socially tag religious faith as crazy as well but faith has had a good run as the dominant meme in recorded human history.

  Personally I do think the pronouncements of many who hear voices or get messages are crazy ( I don't wish to open the can of worms regarding brain illnesses now, to be clear, like the article, I am using the term 'crazy' in its social and scientific sense I.e. nonsense) not because they are good/bad, nasty/ lovely but simply because they are unable to substantiate extremely unusual viewpoints with anything other than dogmatic assertion and in some cases religious style group testifying ( so and so is right I feel the spirit tell me so ).
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  46

  Crazy Religions

  by Qcmbr in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was reading a good article regarding the relative 'craziness' of faiths (blog) and they mentioned a lot about mormons.

  in short they talked about the socially accepted craziness (as opposed to actual mental illness) of mainstream , culturally accepted faiths v those that are relatively new.

  we see scientology as more crazy than catholicism if we fall into the trap of judging without consideration but when examined all religions have very crazy elements.

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  Qcmbr

  Not at all - if God appeared tomorrow the evidence would change my mind. For a believer who has faith in a young earth the evidence of the entire earth and all sciences is not enough. This is the difference and danger of faith as opposed to rational skepticism.