Just a quick balance to the above. The industry I work in was responsible for bringing in a lot of Indians to my town. A world of difference. Polite, often funny, dressed like us, hard working and a real asset to themselves and India. The Sikhs and Hindus are bloody brilliant, their kids raise the average level of the classes and they aim high. That's what positive immigration from a great culture means.
Posts by Qcmbr
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236What did President Trump say about Sweden?
by kpop inthis you will never see on the mainstream media.
before you comment watch the whole video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqaigeqxqgi.
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236
What did President Trump say about Sweden?
by kpop inthis you will never see on the mainstream media.
before you comment watch the whole video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqaigeqxqgi.
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Qcmbr
Laika - explain rather than spout? I'll clarify my point to give you some meat.
I live in a part of the UK which has a very high rate of migration. This is a mixture of Poles and Pakistani origin families. This has been ongoing for many years. The Poles generally work hard and integrate well. The older immigrants from the 50s and 60s also integrated well. The latest arrivals seem to stick in their communities, wear their former countries national dress - often most offensively full facial coverings, actively avoid speaking English and exacerbate housing shortages by cramming multiple families in small houses forcing the council to step in. Currently my two youngest children are a white minority in their classes, the teaching staff are slowly being replaced by multi language speakers (which stands to reason) and the school governors are now 50% non-white. A sex grooming gang of paedophilic Asian men made the national news and they used a flat above a shop , in view of my house (~100 metres away.) Most of them got away with it. The story has been published in a book called 'I never gave my consent'. My wife's former employer was told to sell his business to an Asian businessman and then was beaten up and robbed. He sold. The same happened to the local autorepair company - its now Asian owned. My wife gets weekly abuse in her current job - mainly from Asian , male youths (not exclusively but mainly.) The local drug dealers are based around the Asian taxi firm which is just around the corner from my house where they run an illegal repair shop from a private dwelling. Each night Asian youths park up around the house smoking and dealing. The white families are being pushed out of the cheaper housing as the Asian landlords buy up most properties and move in immigrants lowering the land value and running areas down.
So this is what I mean - the incumbent population are being replaced. Some get angry and want to fight. Some protest (though the law firmly favours the minorities - the last protest in the town centre ended up with the lady who was handing out leaflets warning about grooming gangs - who had abused her daughter - being put in the cells overnight.) Some try to be extra friendly and defend the encroaching cultural replacement. Some people try to get political representation (UKIP).My family are looking to move as my daughters are scared to go out on their own(oldest has been flashed and propositioned by the aforementioned car dwellers.) This is what it looks like to have your culture replaced. These are all behaviours that have happened before across the world as incumbent populations try to preserve their way of life in the face of incoming people - its a powder keg.
The real shame is that most of the problems aren't from the very first generation immigrants who generally integrated fairly well and took pride in being British. Its their kids and the latest wave. It also wouldn't be so bad if it was a superior culture but its setting back equal rights and causing massive pent up anger - on both sides.
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236
What did President Trump say about Sweden?
by kpop inthis you will never see on the mainstream media.
before you comment watch the whole video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqaigeqxqgi.
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Qcmbr
bohm - yeah , the right wing media isn't providing its own solutions and I suspect that's because it's acting as a counter culture at the moment. There isn't much appetite - or social space - to discuss actually solving problems. You almost need someone with a thick skin to just get on with it otherwise it all just ends up in a talking shop. I'm not going to cover your figures - its late and I'm lazy - I always thought though the US was having a wave of illegal Mexican migration that was more than a few.
The election of Trump - as an example of a real change against the flow - has been met with an incredible emotional backlash and I suspect this stops most people from wanting to get involved in the real debate since everything he has proposed to actually deal with issues is so heavily trashed. Anything other than the status quo (currently the fashionable liberal socialist agenda) get's re-labeled as racism, bigotry and so forth. Even if - in a worst case scenario - a policy was actually racist or culturalist or discriminatory in some way it might actually solve a problem quicker than taking the moral high road (off topic but just the same way sex education actually reduces abortions/unplanned pregnancy while counter intuitively 'moral' christian abstinence teaching increases it.)
Trump - for all his indelicacy and social offence - is what solving problems looks like. It's ugly. It's also why he has so many who support him either verbally or privately. While most of those who disagree are incredibly vocal the reality is its the political and social institutions of the last 8 years have been impotent and have caused a lot of the issues we see (Obama for all his smooth talk was as vicious a war leader as any other and was more than happy to terrorise with drones. Merkel was naive in her open door policy)
The Calais jungle - as was- is a perfect example of a real problem that no-one was 'allowed' to solve (a proper response could create an external/periphery EU processing 'city' to act as a European Ellis Island, all unprocessed immigrants would need to be removed from EU territory to this processing site and then vetted, age checked, photographed, finger printed and issued paperwork - and where necessary refused entry.) When no-one grasps the nettle over PC issues you end up actually risk creating a humanitarian and social disaster.
Creating a series of hate laws to protect minority groups end up increasing hatred of those groups. When a Muslim can walk down your high street with a placard talking about 'death to the West' but anyone who remonstrates with that individual risks breaking a hate law then justice has been perverted.
When you are discouraged for flying your own flag while a protester is congratulated for burning it something deeply disturbing has happened.
When an immigrant can burn down their free accommodation and then get immediately rehoused while lots of people flock around with free blankets but your own children cannot afford leave your home because of a housing shortage something has gone wrong.
The left wants to care for everyone cradle to grave while the right wants to provide conditions for self regulation. The left cannot solve and actually creates freeloading while the right cannot solve and indeed encourages inequality. The middle ground is constantly crowded out by extremism.Uncontrolled immigration is polarizing the incumbents and fomenting social division.
We are experiencing exactly what all incumbent civilizations have when a wave of migration threatens to swamp them. We are the American Indians of our day and , just like them, we are exploring all the ways we can to survive.
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491
What is your opinion of the news media?
by minimus into me they have an agenda and they really don't care about professional journalism.
most are untrustworthy and that's a shame.
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Qcmbr
My opinion of the media is that there's become too much choice. Everything is so quick now that even if a journalist is attempting to have any integrity the delay in verifying and fact gathering means they are sitting on yesterday's forgotten news. Now it's about speed, clicks and ad revenue. News has been utterly subverted into a means to attract advertising. The closest we have to real information is the twitter style live reports and they are hard to sort.
I do think modern media has lost any ultimate drive for impartiality and trustworthiness and is much more akin to a sports team, every different media source has a pronounced bias as it seeks to attract fickle, niche consumers. We really are living in a 1984 scenario where , depending on which spin is being added you can read whether we are in fact fighting Eastasia or Eurasia.
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236
What did President Trump say about Sweden?
by kpop inthis you will never see on the mainstream media.
before you comment watch the whole video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqaigeqxqgi.
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Qcmbr
Bugbear
Fact is, that crime rates are in Sweden declining. Numbers of prisoners are reduced. Some crimes such as raping have increased. This due to the fact that gov. has reduced the proof burden for the victims.
I did have a poke around to see what the stats say regarding crime in Sweden (not certain how reliable this site is) http://www.prisonstudies.org/country/sweden and its interesting to see the % of foreigners in the Swedish jails. Their crime rates are decreasing over a short reporting period but there could be many reasons for that - worst case scenario things like these https://youtu.be/4QMe0Wou5HI don't end up in arrests because the police are neutered - best case Sweden is doing a brilliant job of stopping crime - I suspect the former.
This article made for interesting reading - http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/ and it seems to echo many concerns I have over uncontrolled immigration.
- Where are immigrants being housed in Sweden during its housing shortage? - http://www.thelocal.se/20170209/inside-swedens-housing-crisis-when-renovation-means-eviction
- How are the number of immigrant children affecting the local schools? http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/education/2016/06/why-sweden-s-free-schools-are-failing
- Are the immigrants getting jobs and integrating? http://www.thelocal.se/20160531/fewer-than-500-of-163000-asylum-seekers-found-jobs
- How does Sweden's very generous welfare system cope with a large influx of non-contributing people? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-31/here-s-how-the-refugee-crisis-may-reshape-sweden-s-social-model
While right now the number of absolute crimes may be low there must be some recognition that change is coming - pressure is building. If you have plenty of space and capacity in your system then you can afford to take in people, invest in bringing them up to speed and letting them have the dignity to contribute. When you open your doors but are actually very close to structural capacity it doesn't take much to create a crisis. Sweden is very rich and may be able to rapidly stave off the social disaster of pockets of poverty but if it doesn't it's attempt to help ends up condemning immigrants/refugees/local unemployed citizens to a very bad situation. Mix in a radical ideology and liberal , free Sweden ends up being the exact opposite.
I look at the housing crisis in the UK - an entirely lamentable situation created by years of political ineptitude - but it actually means the UK shouldn't be importing 300k people into the UK (no matter if they are doctors, surgeons, rocket scientists or whatever) until we've sorted out a place for them to stay.We can't offer homes and welfare to others when we can't provide it equitably for our own.
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236
What did President Trump say about Sweden?
by kpop inthis you will never see on the mainstream media.
before you comment watch the whole video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqaigeqxqgi.
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Qcmbr
In the West imo:
The rise of feminism, gay rights and racial equality while broadly useful and necessary in promoting an equal playing field in a modern society are uniquely unqualified to stand as the dominant culture - which they have become. The conservative, traditional culture to which it was once the counter culture has largely been nibbled away such that our media, politics and prevailing zeitgeist is socialist, virtuous and emasculated (masculinity outside of the cinema is largely frowned upon.) Europe is at the forefront of this thinking and has seen - in the form of the EU - a homogenizing force that has removed travel barriers, reduced military commitments and has enforced multi cultural acceptance. In demolishing the traditional structures of society to create a new, freer one, it has let its guard down. When you remove your immune system to combat leukemia you also must isolate yourself. Europe allowed the rise of equal rights to wipe its traditional immune system. It then naively forgot to isolate itself - it opened its internal border without enforcing its external one.
“Thomas More: ...And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned around on you--where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast--man's laws, not God's--and if you cut them down...d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake.” - A Man for All Seasons.
Islamic culture, especially from the Arab world and East has not made any such compromises. It is militaristic, violent, masculine, politically rapacious and has a fundamental raison d'être - to act as a cuckoo culture and remove/subsume all other cultures. Sweden, as an example, is experiencing the effects of a viral infection at the exact moment it has removed its ability to cope with this attack - because to cope you MUST use a measure of inequality (you must privilege your culture over the dangerous one, you must privilege your citizens over immigrants, you must be willing to do hard nasty things to stop nasty incoming pathogens.)
Sweden is so excited by its feminist , socialist outlook that its actually privileging the incoming culture over the Swedes (immigrants are trusted on their age claims, are given preferential legal status and are given free housing, food and money, claiming the status of 'refugee' has become a magic password that bypasses all internal systems) Sweden has forgotten that a nation state's primary purpose is to look after its own people and only then to look out for neighbours - you never grab a drowning swimmer. Legal, orderly, planned immigration is a great benefit to all - disorderly, naive, virtuous open doors ruins it for everyone - just the same way we lock our own homes' doors and vet those we allow in - not because we 'hate' others or are 'racist' but because we understand that bad apples ruin entire barrels. Sweden and its legal, hard working migrants will be suffering the effects of impotent social policies for many years.
Political Islam is at war with the West and we aren't allowed to recognise it - it's not PC. Currently political Islam is killing mainly Muslims in the Muslim heartlands but given enough time we shall see more and more attacks on the West spawned from the Islamic toeholds in the towns and cities of Europe. Its written in their Koranic manifesto.
The most ardent SJWs (especially the Hollywood types) are so intent on being 'right' that they are actively sabotaging our defences, opening the castle gates and demolishing curtain walls and then retreating to their own gated enclosures oblivious to the damages done to the unprotected normal people. Political Islam is a poisonous snake and you can't let it loose in your house and wonder why it keeps biting you nor blaming those bitten for being so judgmental.
The important thing was not that Trump naively used a rubbish Fox report BUT that too many people would rather focus on the easy virtuous hatred of Trump than actually confronting the dreadful consequences of inviting in an abhorrent religious culture.
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Qcmbr
tl:dr Risky change gets my vote over current state of play (which isn't solving big issues). Also public SJW language crippling needed discourse.
Helmet on, cautious step over parapet.
I really like Trump - not the person (and I'm sad I have to say in order for anyone to even consider what I'm about to post ) - the opportunity.
I believe over the last few years we've invented a language to excuse ourselves , a language of constricted PC phrases and acceptable utterances through which we have face a non-PC world. You can't , for example, discuss immigration, legal or illegal, without someone deciding that anything other than extreme-white-male-self-hatred-apologising-give-everything-to-the-less-fortunate-yay-feminism type statements are allowed. In short, having gained equal rights - in most cases- the militant cause seekers have decided to keep the ball rolling and argue for the complete negation of national, western, christian(!) identity. This is a new 'religion' and its as insidious as JWs but much more powerful as its co-opted liberalism, socialism and the equal rights movement - and most of the media both social and traditional - and has created a tremendous zeitgeist where all that is needed to solve the world problems is to be more offended and outraged (on behalf of someone else normally) as possible.
Huge amounts of national dialogue navel gaze about xenophobia and how terrible and bleak everything is (the massive amount of casual hate about Trump and his skin color is astounding - imagine running some 'fun' roasts about Obama and his skin color...) It all boils down to a few easy to understand reasons to my old cycnical eye.
Whinging is much easier than confronting. In a world of mind boggling evil in the form of Isis and environmental destruction it is oppressing to realise you are helpless. The lure of virtue signalling is that you can imagine that if you write just the right pithy protest banner or the most cutting facebook post (the more hateful and nasty the better , especially if you can link it to right wing Nazi tropes) you can save the world. Utter bollocks.
A grown up approach to life , discourse and change is to throw yourself into the problem to build by example, to listen and try to understand without resorting to ridicule or bullying and to face horrific choices (e.g. do we declare war on Isis knowing the cost of war) knowing that at some point action is needed , however distasteful, and that consequences should be accepted and owned.
Trump isn't an answer to all of the above but he's a start. Smooth talking , peer checked statement wielding 'actors' are much more dangerous than a man who shoots his mouth off every few seconds and potentially retracts it in the next tweet. A man has just exited the White House who was at war for the entirety of his office and he carries away the world's highest peace award. This is how we get played. This is how we get robbed. This is how the trick is done. Trump isn't coming from that same corrupt place. He's independently wealthy. Sure he's corrupt and shady BUT he's not Washington corrupt and shady (not yet) he's not been bought and had to trade his soul on the way up.
Sometimes you need a b*st*rd to sort out the corruption that power causes. The UK got one in the shape of Churchill - a man with disastrous and nasty views on common people and non-whites - but a man who could lead at a crucial time and place. I see in Trump one of the last chances to shake the tree of Washington and to replace a dialogue of virtuous avoidance with straight talk (even if its crap from your POV at any one time.)
With a Trump I can start to ask why's again (Why keep antagonizing Russia? Why support a cold war NATO while Europe neglects its defense? Why is it wrong to feel national pride? etc.) Without having to wade through the mini PC language I've talked about above. Legitimate fears about rolling back social rights, undoing climate change initiatives, discriminating against legal migrants and so on should absolutely be raised and discussed but not to a backdrop of car burning, social media bullying and naive virtue signalling. I'd have higher faith in an honest discussion with a Trump than a Clinton (or an Obama!)- every single time. We know the guy's got the social skills of a spoilt, narcissistic, misogynist BUT he he owns that crap and when he speaks/tweets he genuinely believes it (you can mediate and discuss a statement made with integrity) - compare an (unproven?) example that illustrates the really dangerous alternative - http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/8/hillary-clinton-says-she-has-both-public-and-priva/.
Discourse is needed between all sides, integrity is needed in thought, a strong sense of identity and respect is needed by those who need to act and discuss. Fuzzy ideas of a social utopia cannot keep superseding (I so wanted to say 'trumping'!) the hard dialogue and choices needed to deal with an often violent, amoral and brutal world.
Trump the opportunity shouldn't keep getting overshadowed by 'The end is nigh' he's Hitler2.0 let's burn a limo sh*t. Let's wait and see what happens and put away the hyperbole for a little bit. After all we're all still friends generally united by common ideals..aren't we?
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114
Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?
by nicolaou injehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.
they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.
they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?
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Qcmbr
It's all about branding. Whoever is perceived as owning the brand gets to socially trade on preferential terms. Just as no-one likes to allow others to brand them (when negative) they want to brand themselves. Whoever gets to claim to be the true 'christian' gets to exert authority. To this end all sects of Christianity attempt to downplay all other sects and claim the trademark.
Since the value of that particular label is currently low and diminishing and anyone who could have authentically claimed it got curb stomped by Rome 2 millennia ago I'm more than happy to allow them to claim a stake in it.
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Why are the atheists on this site so hateful?
by HopeEverLasting inall us creationists try to do is offer true evidence that the one and only god is out there watching and looking down on us.
we present that certain scientists know the truth about god and that he is everything that we see from trees, life, weather, the air we breath, and even the most simple molecules.
but of course you atheists reject it because it is your nature to not be humble and see god because you want to rule your own life.
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Qcmbr
OP:
Atheists is the wrong category - lots of atheists on this site don't comment on faith-based threads or choose to practice online tolerance of diverse ideas. The category you are attacking (?) is the anti-theists (and of them it is a subset of the verbal ones that you are offended by.)
'Hateful' is an interesting description and I'm not certain if your distaste is based upon substance (they are rude to you, disrespect your cherished beliefs or mock a divinity you hold dear to you) or style (the words are harsh, the arguments brutal and the tone is disrespectful.) When I first joined this site I was staunch LDS and I too found the anti-theists quick to demolish my posts and almost impossible to have a reasoned discussion with. I almost left.
I prayed to understand how I could best present the truths I knew and best defend God amongst this pack of wolves. While pondering I realised some things that changed how I engaged and responded to these often hurtful debates:
- When someone responds - no matter how ferociously or mockingly - they are showing a kind of respect, they are spending time to signal that not only is your idea interesting but it evokes a reply. Real disrespect is to be totally ignored.
- I had no right to expect politeness when my posts came from a position of extreme judgment (non-believers are lost / punishable / wicked / unhappy and they have no hope in this life or the next unless they accept our Saviour.) It was I who was being presumptuous and was posting from a position of threat (God was on my side and they would be lost if they didn't listen) and hubris (no matter what they said or how cleverly stated, in the big picture they were either supporting God or Satan and I knew who I served).
- I could be wrong.
Lots of love - an anti-theist
p.s. losing religion is very liberating
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slimboyfat joins the Mormons!
by slimboyfat ini know that some people on the board have experience of being mormons, so i would be interested in your feedback.
at church this afternoon it was an uncanny experience.
in the past i've read a lot about mormons, so i thought i was prepared in general for what it would be like.
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Qcmbr
You missed the time when being a Mormon was great. The chapels and stakehouses once buzzed with activity and most families had their entire social life there. Now they are fading badly in the West, especially Europe. Generally the people are genuine and lovely but you can see in their eyes now just how utterly boring Mormonism is. Once it really believed in itself but now all its energy is spent trying to face one fact checking problem after another. They are on the wrong side of social justice and are tied by core doctrine to binary gender definitions and a patriarchal hierarchy.
Hope you enjoyed the people, sorry you had to smell the foisty, damp smell and genuine sympathy that you had to sit through a whole set of meetings.
