One point that has played many times on my mind (and is fairly central to my world view) is that if God exists its up to Him to prove it. What would it take for you to accept God?
Starters for ten:
Personal appearance?
See angel?
Evolution superceded by another logical answer?
Alien life discovered?
Posts by Qcmbr
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63Ok so you left the idea of God - what would it take to come back?
by Qcmbr inone point that has played many times on my mind (and is fairly central to my world view) is that if god exists its up to him to prove it.
what would it take for you to accept god?
starters for ten: .
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Qcmbr
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67
If God doesn't want brothers to have beards, why does it grow?
by JH in.
men have facial hair and women don't, and that's god who decided that.. so why can't brothers have beards or goatees.
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Qcmbr
LT : Its just part of the overall identification with the LDS church - as a member of the church we all covenant to represent Christ at all times so that means being as neat, clean and respectable as we can be (it doesn't mean sandals, desert robes and beards - though I think that would be kinda fun :) An example is the missionaries wearing sober attire - suits and white shirts for the guys and modest skirts etc for the women.
As a side note I have noticed that I act differently according to how I dress - wierd huh? If I'm ever taking part in a play I never really get into the role until I put on my costume. I think that how we dress does actually influence how we act. There is probably some truth in the principle of making some outward appearance changes to reflect an inner change of heart.
As a point of agreement with those who think the church should butt out of life's minutia - I know sometimes members of my church definately get it wrong when they 'talk' to someone about their dress standards without actually acknowledging the person and the incredible sacrifice they are making in just being there. On the flip side the vast majority of ppl I know would gently suggest the standard expected at church simply by their own example rather than actual comments. -
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If God doesn't want brothers to have beards, why does it grow?
by JH in.
men have facial hair and women don't, and that's god who decided that.. so why can't brothers have beards or goatees.
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Qcmbr
Its a worldwide LDS rule however, if it was culturally 'acceptable' or actually required then local rules would apply. I think that the generation that grew up as teenagers and young adults in the 60s is in charge of church policy (probably true for Dubs as well) and so this linking of beards and hippies (who were of course 'evil' hehe) and rebellion may well change in the next few years as the next wave of leaders relax that rule.
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If God doesn't want brothers to have beards, why does it grow?
by JH in.
men have facial hair and women don't, and that's god who decided that.. so why can't brothers have beards or goatees.
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Qcmbr
We have the same rules
Excerpt from an LDS general authority:-
Beards and Long Hair
The rule against beards and long hair for men stands on a different footing. I am weary of having young people tell me how most of our Church leaders in earlier times wore beards and long hair, which shows that these are not inherently evil. Others argue that beards cannot be evil because they see bearded men enjoying the privileges of the temple. To me, this proposition seems so obvious that it is hardly worth mentioning. Unlike modesty, which is an eternal value in the sense of rightness or wrongness in the eyes of God, our rules against beards and long hair are contemporary and pragmatic. They are responsive to conditions and attitudes in our own society at this particular point in time. Historical precedents are worthless in this area. The rules are subject to change, and I would be surprised if they were not changed at some time in the future. But the rules are with us now, and it is therefore important to understand the reasoning behind them.
There is nothing inherently wrong about long hair or beards, any more than there is anything inherently wrong with possessing an empty liquor bottle. But a person with a beard or an empty liquor bottle is susceptible of being misunderstood. Either of these articles may reduce a person?s effectiveness and promote misunderstanding because of what people may reasonably conclude when they view them in proximity to what these articles stand for in our society today.
In the minds of most people at this time, the beard and long hair are associated with protest, revolution, and rebellion against authority. They are also symbols of the hippie and drug culture. Persons who wear beards or long hair, whether they desire it or not, may identify themselves with or emulate and honor the drug culture or the extreme practices of those who have made slovenly appearance a badge of protest and dissent. In addition, unkemptness?which is often (though not always) associated with beards and long hair?is a mark of indifference toward the best in life. -
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Platonic Friendships....
by diamondblue1974 inthere are some conflicting views on this subject; when i was a teenage jw i was friends with someone of the opposite sex and we were the best of mates...nothing sexual, no attraction in that department at all but it was frowned upon by those in the congregation (as you can probably imagine).. my ex wife never believed a man and woman could be just platonic...hence no longer with her...but..now being somewhat older (and a teeny bit wiser .
what do you think though, do you think a man and woman can be just friends and more importantly has this view been changed since leaving the jw's?.
db
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Qcmbr
You can but they are dangerous if they are exclusive to your spouse. If your not married then its fine.
I say its dangerous when married because many marriage vows have been broken in moments of weakness by associating with friends of the opposite sex too intimately. If I was close friends with someone of the opposite sex I would think it wise to involve my wife in that relationship - even if simply to avoid making her feel in any way uncomfortable. -
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don't ya think it's a rotten trick?
by zaphod in.
i've always thought that it was a rotten trick for god to create us with free will and then punish us for using it.. wha'd'ya think?
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Qcmbr
..sorry I just reread my post and it came across a bit harsh - teach me to write while cooking dinner!
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don't ya think it's a rotten trick?
by zaphod in.
i've always thought that it was a rotten trick for god to create us with free will and then punish us for using it.. wha'd'ya think?
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Qcmbr
U/D are you not well fed and living in an industrialised country? I rather think you are.
You don't seem to believe in a god so your points are pretty interesting - you seem to postulate that bad things happening equates to no God. That is not logic that's just knee jerk reactions.
If someone you loved got hurt in a house you made while doing something you told them not to do are you to blame - or do you in fact cease to exist? You seem to have a bit of a rage against God (or at least the concept of one) and you seem to be looking for reasons to not believe. Thats fine - hopefully I haven't misjudged you - forgive me if I have.
Let's forget trying to prove that God lives / doesn't by looking at a problem (you mentioned AIDS as an example) because while we're at it we might as well argue about whether you are someones child or not in relation to a really bad day you had at the office ie - very bad logical premises.
Free will exists - no-one is forcing me or you to write these comments (apologies if in fact someone does have a gun to your head!:)
We are responsible for what we make of this life - happiness can be found amongst the poorest, the sickest etc while gut wrenching pain can be found amongst the well fed fat cats of the world. To me the ultimate unfairness is if there is no point - if we are just a random bunch of events then you aren't even experiencing this anyway becasue you don't exist as a conscious entity - you're just a machine processing data. If however there is a point, there is some form of reckoning, if this life is just a moment in eternity , if there is more to come than has gone before, if there is laughter and tears to come beyond this life then we(I) have some perspective - and hope.
At the end of the day you believe your lie and I'll believe mine - if it makes you happy then far be it for me to criticise. Besides its much more fun to be friends. -
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don't ya think it's a rotten trick?
by zaphod in.
i've always thought that it was a rotten trick for god to create us with free will and then punish us for using it.. wha'd'ya think?
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Qcmbr
How does God punish you for using your free will?
Its a new one to me... I have yet to see an example of any punishment for the exercise of free will - I do see however an awful lot of consequences of bad choices being suffered. Can the alcoholic blame God because God made yeast, sugar and hops? Can the 15 year old gym slip mum blame God because she slept with someone? Can the people in war zones blame God because someone drops bombs on them? Etc..
The way I see it (and its an admitted limited view from here in the Bat Cave) is that God has been very generous in giving His son to us allow us to escape the most serious consequences of our actions but in also giving us the dignity and space to work things out for ourselves. In addition He has actually given us a code to live by that is much better than the rules that our politicians come up with - Love your neighbour as yourself.
If you mean its not fair that God punishes us in the next life for decisions made in this life then you've also got to say that He's unfair for rewarding us and that somehow you aren't responsible for anything.
Funny thing is I have this sort of discussion with my 5 year old when she says its not fair that I impose rules on her(like bed before 8pm and cleaning the floor with a toothbrush - hehe jk.) I always tell her that while she lives in my house she can live by my rules and if she doesn't like that she can live by the consequences of not obeying. -
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Have you conquered the indoctrination?
by Frog insomething i?ve wanted to ask you all for a while.
had you 100% denounced jw doctrine to yourself at the time of your leaving the org?
i know many have said that specific issues prompted them to leave i.e., wt membership in the un, silent lambs/child molestation policy, malawi political party card issues, inconsistent changes in doctrine i.e., 1975/1914 generation not passing?new light begets old light begets new light etc.
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Qcmbr
While at uni I studied some interesting ideas on deconstruction and also surrealism - it got me thinking that we are all indoctrinated no matter where we are in life - every time we turn the TV on we soak in ideas and attitudes that affect how we are.
Even trying to cut ourselves off from external influences merely allows our inner voice to continue crystalising our inner feelings - even if they are 'wrong.' I have a philosphy that we are all in intellectual cages and its very hard to think outside the box, once you escape one box(for example maybe religion) you find yourself in another box and so on.
For want of a better word I would describe everyone as having a personal religion - a set of beliefs they tenaciously hold to and live by (for example there is a definate anti-God religion practised by some on this board and they are as vociferous as any preacher in constantly reaffirming their belief in no God - and thats not a criticism its just an observation.)
To sum up, any deprogramming , conquering of indoctrination merely means that you are replacing one indoctrination with another IMHO. I guess that maybe a key to 'choosing' your indoctrination is 'does it make me happy without harming others?' -
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Brits. Will you vote in next month's General Election?
by nicolaou inas everyone had guessed, the election has been set for may 5th.
personally, this is my first opportunity 'post wt mind-control' to vote for our next government.
i don't suppose that i will - 40 years of 'neutrality' and non-involvement have rather flattened my desire to take part in political change.. how about you?
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Qcmbr
Thanks Scotsman - that was brilliant except that I ended up a Green (hmmm not really) - the best part though was seeing how far removed I am from Labour.
Maybe someone should do the same thing for JWs (I know there is the general one that does all religions ) with teh grade to see how JW youre thinking is - or maybe which era of the JWs you belong to?