Tetrapod - I guess it just depends on which mood you catch me in. I think I've learnt a lot from people here but I'm still an arrogant so and so. I know we often disagree but I'd be more than happy to go to the pub for a quick half (of blackcurrant;) with you. I think you'd be surprised at how liberal I really am in the flesh, electronic words are harsher and more time delayed than real words. I often post and look back and re -read some rather naff twitage I've penned and then I get embarrassed and don't post for a few days.
Posts by Qcmbr
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16Is the Bible True?
by UnDisfellowshipped inis the bible true?
i encourage everyone to post on this thread the main reasons why you do believe that the bible is the true inspired word of god.. i want to examine both sides of this subject, so i am also posting another thread entitled "is the bible false?
" at: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/100532/1.ashx.
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Mormons and JW: same horror story, different halloween costume!
by dezpbem ina while back i did some online research on the mormons.
i came across some ex-mormons sites.
i was shocked to see that their exit stories and problems were almost the same!
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Qcmbr
These are the similarities..and some differences I think.
Similarities:
1/ Very Missionary Minded
2/ Thrive on persecution
3/ Millenialist
4/ God's true church
5/ Men only have priesthood
6/ Heirarchical leadership
7/ Total commitment expected
8/ Fundamentalist basis
9/ Baptism by immersion
10/ Religious community
11/ New light
12/ Property ownership
13/ Importance of obedience to laws
14/ Growth Rates
15/ Leaders as personalities who are looked up to.
16/ Confessional system.
17/ Multiple weekly and Sunday meetings.
Differences:
1/ Concept and relationship to God
2/ Tithing
3/ Sacrament/communion
4/ Shunning
5/ Blood issue
6/ Health Code
7/ Temple
8/ Education
9/ Military Service
10/ Polygamy
11/ Pioneer trek
12/ Food storage
13/ Charitable acts
14/ Who will get to heaven/hell
15/ Prophets
16/ Holy Ghost
17/ Personal Revelation
18/ Gifts of the spirit
19/ Healing
I think when anyone leaves any organisation that is as immersive be it religious / political / social etc.. they get a physical and mental shock to their system that can exhibit itself in a range of behaviours and (often extremes) of feelings(anger, revenge, sickness, disgust, happiness, feeling free, hope, despair etc..) One thing I see with ex-LDS is that many profess that they still believe but have 'faded' out of activity, some hate the church and want to have nothing more to do with it, some people hate the church and can't leave it alone, very few are ambivalent. I guess that's partially true here. -
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Is the Bible True?
by UnDisfellowshipped inis the bible true?
i encourage everyone to post on this thread the main reasons why you do believe that the bible is the true inspired word of god.. i want to examine both sides of this subject, so i am also posting another thread entitled "is the bible false?
" at: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/100532/1.ashx.
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Qcmbr
Nate, I'm UK based so organising some debate contest isn't even in my remit. As for emailing your mate - why would he listen to me? I'm sure he gets plenty of correction emails but has to ignore them otherwise his site would descend into chaos.
I'm not here fishing for converts - if anyone believed in the LDS church because of anything I said I'd be the first to whup them up their head. I originally came because the JWs fascinate me and I found a place here where I (thought I) could critique my faith without having to continually defend it (you'll see from my posts why going to an ex-LDS site for some discussion would just end up with me having raging arguements!), and understand why people leave their religion. I'm responsible for looking after members of my own faith who leave. While I'm here however, I'll ding dong with anyone who tries to 'attack' my faith rather than making balanced comments.
If you have respect and balance I'll generally agree with what I think is valid and agree to disagree on the rest, if someone just makes wild accusations in inflamatory words I'll go a round or two with them.
Orrin Porter Rockwell is an awesome git. I often wish the LDS church had been a bit more militant in its early days - we'd have kicked serious butt if we'd been allowed. Instead we allowed ourselves be driven by thugs into trekking to Utah.
For anyone who worries about religious nutters there is a simmering desire in the LDS to retake our land one day - it won't be today though. -
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Mormons and JW: same horror story, different halloween costume!
by dezpbem ina while back i did some online research on the mormons.
i came across some ex-mormons sites.
i was shocked to see that their exit stories and problems were almost the same!
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Qcmbr
Hey Flying High - I was a shy kid, I didn't shun him in the street or anything I just didn't go over to his house anymore. If someone hurts you you don't get all chummy about it I was 'confessing' that I shunned someone becasue of my individual weakness nothing at all and in absolute opposition to LDS teaching.
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Mormons and JW: same horror story, different halloween costume!
by dezpbem ina while back i did some online research on the mormons.
i came across some ex-mormons sites.
i was shocked to see that their exit stories and problems were almost the same!
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Qcmbr
So ALL Mormons are sad and pathetic morons - thanks mate for the balanced thoughts.
I invite you brethren of the priesthood, both young and old, to look around you, seek out, and extend a warm hand of friendship to those less active and nonmembers. Invite them to participate with you. Become their friend, and you will make a difference and bless their lives for generations to come.
..from an LDS leader. Shunning is not a word the LDS use. -
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Is the Bible True?
by UnDisfellowshipped inis the bible true?
i encourage everyone to post on this thread the main reasons why you do believe that the bible is the true inspired word of god.. i want to examine both sides of this subject, so i am also posting another thread entitled "is the bible false?
" at: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/100532/1.ashx.
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Qcmbr
Nate - I'm LDS. That website is just a set of viewpoints that I've heard before and have some value and some tosh - the bit about the Mormons is as blase and misinformative as you would expect from someone just shooting spitballs at people to prove their belief system is correct.
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Mormons and JW: same horror story, different halloween costume!
by dezpbem ina while back i did some online research on the mormons.
i came across some ex-mormons sites.
i was shocked to see that their exit stories and problems were almost the same!
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Qcmbr
Stares at GBL with a look of surprise because he sometimes says cool stuff but just made a stupid statement imo.
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28
Mormons and JW: same horror story, different halloween costume!
by dezpbem ina while back i did some online research on the mormons.
i came across some ex-mormons sites.
i was shocked to see that their exit stories and problems were almost the same!
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Qcmbr
Whoooo Blondie - be ever so careful about maligning a faith that actively teaches you to keep your family together and that shunning is not appropriate with the JW active teaching of shunning. Don't tar the LDS with the JW error. I have publically mentioned my 'shunning' of a friend who left the faith but it was based upon an inability to cope with his rejection of the faith we had supported each other through - not upon any teaching or doctrine.
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Mormons and JW: same horror story, different halloween costume!
by dezpbem ina while back i did some online research on the mormons.
i came across some ex-mormons sites.
i was shocked to see that their exit stories and problems were almost the same!
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Qcmbr
naw - we are so much more fun. We're allowed to put our babies in boxes.
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16
Is the Bible True?
by UnDisfellowshipped inis the bible true?
i encourage everyone to post on this thread the main reasons why you do believe that the bible is the true inspired word of god.. i want to examine both sides of this subject, so i am also posting another thread entitled "is the bible false?
" at: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/100532/1.ashx.
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Qcmbr
While it is true that nearly all of the doctrines of the gospel are at least mentioned in the Bible, they are not presented in an organized form or in logical proximity to one another; rather, they are scattered throughout the Bible in such a manner that they are not easily recognized nor properly associated. After a person has learned the gospel and become acquainted with the plan of salvation from latter-day revelation, he can then see traces of the plan and discover references to it in the Bible; but he can't construct the plan and fit it together initially from the Bible alone.
I didn't write the above!
I think that the idea that the bible is 'true' is a good starting point to suggest that:
1/ Some parts of the bible are totally true (factual refrences to historical events for example)
2/ Some parts are utter garbage (where it disagrees in its story)
3/ Some parts are only as 'true' as the interpretation (ie we are thousands of disagreeing churches who can't get one cohesive doctrine between us out of our 'true' book.)
4/ Some parts are judged harshly for accuracy reasons when it is perfectly probably they were allegorical stories (Job?)
5/ As a historical document revealing the religion and culture of the time it is true as long as we recognise that the Catholic church , modern day translators etc.. have all added their particular slants to a hebrew cultural creation.
Going back to the statement at the top I think there is truth in it but you have to have the code it was written in to understand it - i.e. only if God exists and there is a Holy Spirit that can re-reveal it to you as you read will you know what interpretation / parts are true. So if you don't believe in God its all cobblers. If you do believe in God but don't believe you need the Spirit to interpret it you'll just reflect yourself. If you do believe in God and you do have a spiritual translation process occuring then you will by definition receive any truth contained therin.