Botch - an atheist who sees the danger of faith ( both to themselves and to their society ) will be very motivated to try and influence people. The recent pictures of a woman murdered for supposed adultery by religious thinkers stirs the blood of most people. Atheists can see quite clearly that faith is the common denominator and the mechanism that allows a suspension of rational logic also allows the suspension of moral thinking and makes possible the acceptance of such memes as eternal damnation, sin, scapegoats, sheep / goats, chosen / rejected, wheat / chaff , saved / lost and the capability to burn a heretic or shoot an adulterous woman. I'm proud that your friend had a discussion with you that forced you to confront important concepts. That this got in the way of a nice evening of drinking probably sucked but I suspect the woman who got shot by the faithful also had a bad day and my sympathy is actually with her rather than with your first world problem whinge.
Posts by Qcmbr
-
173Atheists: Lowest Retention Rate Next to JWs
by breakfast of champions inarticle found here.. .
those who grow up in an atheist household are least likely to maintain their beliefs about religion as adults, according to a study by georgetown university's center for applied research in the apostolate (cara).only about 30 percent of those who grow up in an atheist household remain atheists as adults.
this "retention rate" was the lowest among the 20 separate categories in the study.. there were 1,387 atheists (weighted) in the survey.
-
-
-
173
Atheists: Lowest Retention Rate Next to JWs
by breakfast of champions inarticle found here.. .
those who grow up in an atheist household are least likely to maintain their beliefs about religion as adults, according to a study by georgetown university's center for applied research in the apostolate (cara).only about 30 percent of those who grow up in an atheist household remain atheists as adults.
this "retention rate" was the lowest among the 20 separate categories in the study.. there were 1,387 atheists (weighted) in the survey.
-
-
Qcmbr
I didn't expect these results though since atheism isn't a movement like say secular humanism it's hard to define what they mean. Is this just a way of saying that those who aren't born into a religion tend to join a religion when they get older? I wouldn't be so surprised at that in a religious country such as the US. Being born an atheist no more inoculates you against faith than it grants immunity to measles. I also wonder whether marriage partners have a large sway in the process ( I can think of a few people in my former faith who were marriage converts .) If anything this just reinforces my hope that critical thinking , especially regarding faith, will become a core part of the curriculum. Religion should not be placed in a sacred bubble during school time in order to not offend the pious parent. Faith ( the requirement to believe without evidence) is the key to stupidity and educational establishments are negligent when they do not challenge it at every turn.
I'd be very interested in seeing the figures for those who have been religious, done the homework and concluded there is no supernatural power. I think they would more closely define the definition of atheist ( I suspect non believing children are more likely to be agnostic and have no great preference either way.) Once a person has paid a price intellectually to take a position then I think it is much harder to change. I think it very unlikely that I would become religiously inclined again unless a superior being actually manifests ( and I don't mean in my stomach or in a dream or via a little voice behind my left ear - I can't believe in a God who plays parlour games and who can't even use a phone or a computer or some standard communication method.)
A real being wont be promising 70 virgins, blood sacrifices, resurrection for long disassembled atoms, magic fruit and talking snakes or an imaginary justice system involving being infected with smallpox - they will bring higher technology and actual knowledge about physics, maths, astronomy and biology. Their appearance would elicit a golden age of technological advancement unless they are simply farmers in which case we will suffer an eternal Armageddon.
-
473
How do I hear/feel God?
by doinmypart inthis is a serious question.. i know people that hear/feel god (and see postings about people's experiences), but i have not experienced this.
i have never heard anything audibly (or otherwise) nor "felt" anything inwardly.. i've prayed, read, quieted my thoughts, etc...but still nothing..
-
-
Qcmbr
I am very conscious that many posters say things in novel and concise ways that often capture exactly what I want to say. I'm quite honoured to borrow , steal and plagirise like heck :)
-
473
How do I hear/feel God?
by doinmypart inthis is a serious question.. i know people that hear/feel god (and see postings about people's experiences), but i have not experienced this.
i have never heard anything audibly (or otherwise) nor "felt" anything inwardly.. i've prayed, read, quieted my thoughts, etc...but still nothing..
-
-
Qcmbr
Athesim isn't a worldview - surely you can see that! Secular humanism is a worldview, Catholicism is a worldview. Having no belief in Gods is not a worldview (it does not require any cognitive behaviour unlike say Stalinism.) The belief or not in Gods OR humans (worship of Mao for example) all make for very faulty decison making. Faith is a dangerous behaviour and even if an individual holds to a particular faith they are more likely to be in danger from other faith based worldviews than they are from democratic, secular rulers.
Would you be happy to have your current country tec (I'm going to guess the US) handed over to the Taliban or to the evangelical right or to the Mormons or to Communists?
tec - I will grant you that belief in a God means by a strict definition of atheism you do not qualify however, I'm trying to reinforce the reminder that you only believe in one God but you have rejected all other Gods just as all atheists have done. For a cultural reason you have accepted a God available to your mind (for example you wouldn't have believed in your Christ 5000 years ago and dare I say 100 years ago because your christ seems to be a reflection of modern sensibilities rather than the biblical Jesus who reflected 100-200AD culture.)
-
473
How do I hear/feel God?
by doinmypart inthis is a serious question.. i know people that hear/feel god (and see postings about people's experiences), but i have not experienced this.
i have never heard anything audibly (or otherwise) nor "felt" anything inwardly.. i've prayed, read, quieted my thoughts, etc...but still nothing..
-
-
Qcmbr
tec - atheists are always the majority - no one is a theist to all gods. I know what you are saying but I totally disagree. Atheism doesn't rely on faith and has no political motivation. Now when a worldview adopts atheism (such as Stalinist Communism) then all that happens is religious people join the ranks of those whom the ideology (Stalinism - NOT atheism which has no ideology) will destroy. Stalinist communism is faith without God. It is faith that I hate (Gods and faeries are not too important in the grand scheme of things - they come and go. )
-
473
How do I hear/feel God?
by doinmypart inthis is a serious question.. i know people that hear/feel god (and see postings about people's experiences), but i have not experienced this.
i have never heard anything audibly (or otherwise) nor "felt" anything inwardly.. i've prayed, read, quieted my thoughts, etc...but still nothing..
-
-
Qcmbr
sab - did you see my own name on that list. There are two ideas here: faith and belief change and morph the more social power they obtain (and the more violent they become - no exceptions - religions when in the dominant position kill opposers and often by very torturous methods - history is a more powerful lesson than any modern day pretentions to free will.) The other idea is that we are NO DIFFERENT from any other human beings. Only a few years ago Jews put Jews in gas chambers, a few hundred years earlier Catholics burnt Protestants, more recently christians genocidally murdered muslims in Serbia and Christian militants massacred muslims in Karatina and had the favour returned in Damour. People of faith have an additional reason to kill and from the earliest sacrificial murders of pagans through the 80000 sacrifice temple opening ceremonies of the Aztecs onto the Mormon Danites religious groups in power kill. My prejudice against faith is honed over a bloody history of faith based crimes. Deep down humans have the ability to kill. Faith is a great enabler in that action.
That you personally are (I guess) a moral person who would not kill is fine. That you cannot accept that in different circumstances, with different cultural upbringing and different worldviews you wouldn't utterly change your moral stance and could well be found ripping out a sacrifices heart is , may I suggest , simply naive. You are who you are because your culture allows you certain cognitive luxuries and bestowes upon you the fruits of eons of human experimental thought (and yet still you choose the blood soaked bible but I digress). To imagine that somehow you are not a culturally shaped individual and that you would consistenly be the moral you of now regardless of time, place, culture or prevailing worldviews is a triumph of your self regard over blunt reality. The heart ripping priest of South America could potentially be the care home assistant and after hours animal rescue volunteer of today. What I'm saying is our culture evolves but we as humans are lttle different over recorded history. History tells me that faith is utterly dangerous. You may choose to be offended - I choose to see one cause of the darkness in man. The huge surprise for me is that my faith filled life was far less moral than my humanist secular life, my capability for evil acts has reduced now that I owe no allegience to a higher being who is unconstrained by morality.
-
473
How do I hear/feel God?
by doinmypart inthis is a serious question.. i know people that hear/feel god (and see postings about people's experiences), but i have not experienced this.
i have never heard anything audibly (or otherwise) nor "felt" anything inwardly.. i've prayed, read, quieted my thoughts, etc...but still nothing..
-
-
Qcmbr
I don't know what these symbols mean I just felt I needed to put them there. :)
Cantleave - Dawkins - I really like his way of thinking.
-
473
How do I hear/feel God?
by doinmypart inthis is a serious question.. i know people that hear/feel god (and see postings about people's experiences), but i have not experienced this.
i have never heard anything audibly (or otherwise) nor "felt" anything inwardly.. i've prayed, read, quieted my thoughts, etc...but still nothing..
-
-
Qcmbr
This is a painful car crash. So ultimately Tec you just don't know. You admit that you don't know the meaning of phrases central to your discussion. You trot out memes such as fire destroying people then dial it back saying you don't have a revelation to explain what that means exactly.
Christianity has been around for 2000+ years and still ,apparently, every xian has to stumble along utterly clueless about every single phrase in every single book of the bible having to deal with Semitic metaphor and literary styles while trying to extract basic truth from these statements but only on the end of a very tenuous personal phone line. Now of course somewhere , in the vast cornucopia of seeking Xians, there is an authentic correct dogma but no xian dare trust another xian ( unless a temporary truce is being called on an Internet forum or you've had a BBQ together ) and so when one xian describes a metaphor/ literal description all other Xians have to go and pray for revelation to see if they agree. Now when they all get different answers it all comes down to both sides merely claiming they aren't really asking the right person in the right way or with the right kind of faith.
Then they have the audacity to make statements in the form of absolutes. This is based upon their personal, subjective experience, which they deny is generated by their brain ( despite overwhelming evidence of the brains capacity to generate information to match expectation.) Then they play the ultimate doublespeak and claim that it isn't them, everything they say ( be it bilious, stupid, condescending , accusatory or disgustingly immoral) is from their personal divine guide, they aren't responsible for it, hell , as Tec shows, they don't even know what it means half the time but ultimately they show that beneath it all they truly are divinely embraced by love because they put little rose emoticons at the end.
Deep down we are genetically the same stuff, psychologically we have the same potential and all that separates any of us from a suicide bomber, an Aztec priest ripping someone's heart out, a mob baying for someone to get stoned or an inquisitional thumb screw operator is our birthplace, our culture and the lack of opportunity. When a believer is in the minority they are humble, downtrodden and persecuted, when they reach a sufficient size they become accusatory, bold , demanding of rights and social privileges and litigious and when they get to be a ruling majority they cast away any pretence of gentleness and kill and torture , censor opposing thought and rule by fear. All religions, all faiths, all people.
There was a Tec and a Qcmbr burning heretics at the stake a few hundred years ago.
-
160
Why I truly come in!
by justmom inhello everyone.... i would honestly like to share why i come to this site when i am able to.. i too, like many here spent my whole life inside the wt along with my husband who was born in.
(i was 6) we have raised three wonderful sons now 27, 23, 21 who the youngest was almost 7 when we left and we were disfellowshipped.
(for so-called apostacy of course)and since then all of us partake of the christ by eating and drinking the manna and his blood.
-
-
Qcmbr
LV - I think any group can have tremendous benefits to an individual depending on their need. I have no doubt that many people can be found in religions who have benefited from positive role models, new friends, structure and hope. I miss that myself. I like the approach of looking for positive results from empirical evidence but to show why this is a necessary outcome of Christ I think the test would need additional evidence ( for example what other things could be causing low repeat offences, did they get jobs, how does a similar set in a Muslim/ atheist/ buddhist country fare and so on.) Even then you still need to establish why a casual link between a real Christ and converted convicts must result in fewer offenses rather than a notional Christ and I have no idea how you could evidentially show that. There will always be a religious group that , for example , earns more / has fewer divorces/ takes less Prozac per member so it's very difficult to use this kind of statistical study.
-
160
Why I truly come in!
by justmom inhello everyone.... i would honestly like to share why i come to this site when i am able to.. i too, like many here spent my whole life inside the wt along with my husband who was born in.
(i was 6) we have raised three wonderful sons now 27, 23, 21 who the youngest was almost 7 when we left and we were disfellowshipped.
(for so-called apostacy of course)and since then all of us partake of the christ by eating and drinking the manna and his blood.
-
-
Qcmbr
Thx :)