Until, it becomes illegal to teach faith as fact to children I suspect religions that promote irresponsible , large families ( guilty as charged) will continually outgrow non-religious families. Modern atheism needs to show not only that it is a more rational worldview but ultimately a more biologically successful one. Sam Harris is making great inroads into the moral debate on the side of rational, scientific thinking. We need more people to explain why living life based on a lie, no matter how fluffy and spiritual, is socially sub optimal.
Posts by Qcmbr
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304Musings about different types of atheist!
by Seraphim23 ina thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.
or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.
after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?
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Musings about different types of atheist!
by Seraphim23 ina thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.
or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.
after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?
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Qcmbr
I despair at the mental waste consumed by religion, my own former cerebral buffoonery hurts most keenly. I cast about trying to understand how we, I ,can be functionally capable, generally rational beings and yet fall so utterly under the sway of irrational, faith engorged fantasy worlds. What is this capacity we have to be so convinced by utter tosh that we will create entire societies devoted to a myth and more disturbing, create perceptually convoncong internal monologues with invisible friends. What an amazing world this will be when we can stop wasting time on arguing over which magic is bestest. In the meantime the longer the debate continues the more faith can be exposed as a less effective way to gain knowledge. Apols for terse structure and fat fingers . crappy phone.
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304
Musings about different types of atheist!
by Seraphim23 ina thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.
or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.
after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?
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Qcmbr
This kind of OP is why I and many others are willing to stand up to ignorance and faith based manipulation.This kind of divisive stupidity is what happens when material evidence is missing. The moment some godlike being makes material contact the atheist and rational religionist will alike , accept the new information. Faith is the casualty when material evidence appears. Faith leads to all sorts of flightsof fancy when evidence is missing. As an atheist I happily make the probablistic assertion that of themillions of demonstrably evidence free gods yours will also be simply supported by your imaginative faith. Every christian fails the test every time every day. Pretty conclusive. In the meantime ye faithful keep on with the good fight, Zeus will surely bless your endeavours.
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Question regarding Faith...(adamah)
by tec inpeace!.
you have stated (and others have agreed and stated the same) that faith is not based on evidence, or it is not faith to begin with.
may i ask you, then, if you think the apostles and early disciples, who walked with christ, had faith?
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Qcmbr
tec - your slipperiness is amazing - you manage to post thousands of words and yet say nothing of any use. When will you realise that telling people to listen to your version of Christ is to ask them to do something impossible. People cannot listen to something in your mind. If everyone could hear exactly what you can hear then most people posting on this forum (and indeed the world) with a christian background would be able to verify what you are saying. It is sheer hubris and very rude to demean the efforts of many , who now or in the past spent vast amounts of mental energy and time trying to hear Christ and heard nothing by suggesting that is all that is needed. One day I hope you will try and understand why your words are empty to those who have already experimented with hearing /listening/obeying and following Christ in a sincere and faithful way. One day you should put aside evangelical tec and the thought killing mantras that are too often used and try being a world citizen, listen to people and see why pat answers aren't enough for anyone but children, try and understand why people struggle to make sense of anything you say - hint it isn't always the hearers fault.
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Need Advice On Shunning My Dying Dad, Please Advise!
by AuntConnie indear jwn,.
when i was out in field service yesterday i was approached by some sisters asking me how my dying dad was doing.
i said "i try not to visit him, you will have to ask him yourself.
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Qcmbr
Stop shunning and take back ownership of your life. The WT will change their policy on shunning sooner or later. There aren't many doctrinal points they haven't fiddled with in their short history. That's what men do when they make stuff up. You get one shot at spending your life with those around you. Don't let a belief f**k that up.
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After 2000 years since JC was executed ,why have we heard not a whisper from GOD ALMIGHTY ?
by smiddy inhe/she had no problem talking to adam and eve ,though they were sinners in his/her sight .throughout the hebrew sriptures, ot, he /she had no problem communicating with fallen man ,imperfect humans , to dictate his will to his subjects by means of prophets , male and female ,according to the bible , the old testament ,the hebrew scriptures , god communicated not once ,not twice ,not even thrice ,but dozens of times during the first 4000 years of human history according to the bible.. why has this god been so silent these past 2000 years ,when their have been atrocities above the scale of anything that has ever been seen these past 6000 years of human existence .. oh you may say that the atrocities were not committed by god they were committed by man.
fair enough .but god intervened in human affairs in such smaller infringements.
with prophets or so the bible says.. the so called apostacy after the last of the apostles , the influence of satan in the world ,( or was that after 1914 ,) and the 2000 year gap when christ was supposed to return ,never mind about all the crap that went before it .. the fact remains we have never heard from god ,any god, or even" a " god, with either his/her approval or disapproval of events good or bad these past 2000 years... smiddy.
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Qcmbr
Oh Cold, your belief in these miracle stories , sans evidence, is the cost of faith.
I helped 'cast' a demon out of someone along with other missionaries and this evil presence exited via one of the missionaries such that he collapsed. There were four missionaries to witness it and it was quite an impressive experience. Except it wasn't. At the time, in our mythical world, we took someone suffering mental issues, attributed it to an unseen world and we all role played as taught to. Yes it was emotionally charged, yes it was strange and yes we absolutely imagined something was happening that wasn't. The 'possesed' guy was witterring about 'don't cast me into wet places I must remain dry' and it was all simply a mental illness. Crucially he needed medical assistance which he did not get from us. The missionary who was 'overcome by the exiting spirit' was a theatrical guy who imagined the whole thing. The possessed guy played up this whole fantasy with the help of some occult literature and the bible. I was there, I took part, I testified of what I saw but in reality it boiled down to a very silly bit of theatre brought on by religious brainwashing. No demon was cast out, one sick guy didn't get medical care he needed, 1 missionary pretended to pass out and 3 gullible teenage, missionaries joined in.
Returning to your story of the possessed woman lifting off the bed I have to call BS as that doesn't even fit into LDS folklore where Joseph taught that evil spirits cannot perform physical interactions. Mental illness as exhibited by your stories ( and mine) is fertile ground for supposed miracle healing as there is no real evidence except the person sufferring the illness. As mentioned earlier lets see the real, evidence based (medical standard not breathless eyewitness) miracles. Where are the regrown limbs, bodies brought forth from a state of decay to life, deformed bodies made whole etc. they simply do not exist. Are you seriously believing that healing miracles are selectively applied by god? Is god consulting with his rapidly expanding government of dead apostles and deciding that healing x can take place because it still requires faith , yay for mad milly, but healing y would be too spectacular so no matter how much faith little billy has he will need to tough out his elephantism? At some point a strong skeptical attitude will serve you well my friend!
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268
After 2000 years since JC was executed ,why have we heard not a whisper from GOD ALMIGHTY ?
by smiddy inhe/she had no problem talking to adam and eve ,though they were sinners in his/her sight .throughout the hebrew sriptures, ot, he /she had no problem communicating with fallen man ,imperfect humans , to dictate his will to his subjects by means of prophets , male and female ,according to the bible , the old testament ,the hebrew scriptures , god communicated not once ,not twice ,not even thrice ,but dozens of times during the first 4000 years of human history according to the bible.. why has this god been so silent these past 2000 years ,when their have been atrocities above the scale of anything that has ever been seen these past 6000 years of human existence .. oh you may say that the atrocities were not committed by god they were committed by man.
fair enough .but god intervened in human affairs in such smaller infringements.
with prophets or so the bible says.. the so called apostacy after the last of the apostles , the influence of satan in the world ,( or was that after 1914 ,) and the 2000 year gap when christ was supposed to return ,never mind about all the crap that went before it .. the fact remains we have never heard from god ,any god, or even" a " god, with either his/her approval or disapproval of events good or bad these past 2000 years... smiddy.
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Qcmbr
Cold - I'm still reading it :p
The bible contains boast after boast of miracles as signs of not only god's power but his greater power than other regional gods. This should - but doesn't for most believers - ring alarm bells as to the literalness of the written text. In order for old testament Jehovah to be real then he has to fit into a magical world where other magic things can occur ( turning Moses' staff into a snake to eat the other snakes also created by another god is an example.) The 'unchanging' OT god does miracles all day in antiquity from really simple parlour tricks ( iron axe head floating) through to breathtaking stopping the earth in its tracks so the sun remains overhead. The NT continues this magic show with further illusionist style magic, Jesus' birth has new star, Jesus walks on water, chucks newly demonised pigs off cliff, uses spit magic to heal the blind, raises the dead even at a distance, feeds hungry people with magic loaf and fish replicator and so on. To top it all off the supposed inspired writers of the time remind us to look for the signs of the times, to look for people performing miraculous things that 'testify' of Christ and to seek out the magical / miraculous gifts of the spirit.
I say this regularly to still believing Mormons " if real healings existed in the church they would make international news".
It is the bible itself that gives an expectation of miracles ( and the vast majority of ones described in the bible were not associated with the faith of the observers) and all flavours of xian since claim loudest and longest for the veracity and certainty of amazing miracles they neither have proof for nor fits science while simultaneously admitting that inside their bubble of reality everything suddenly becomes science based and miracles are all reliant on absolute faith hence why they themselves never see a real one.
Somehow the human brain can become so blind to reality that it prefers the lie of possible magic to the wonder of actual useful truth. The fairly pathetic healing miracles envisioned by ancient societies and attributed to various chosen ones such as Jesus are bettered every day in every hospital by mankind and the application of science. If miracles were true it is a silly argument to say we wouldn't believe them. The real silliness is to turn your back on reality and live in a pretend world where magic sometimes works but only for other people in an arbitrary way but that requires vast amounts of mental faith just in case it's your turn to get some magic pixie dust - and then to maintain that mindset when it never is your day.
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IQ and Theism
by DJS inrob waugh yahoo!
news .religious people are less intelligent than non-believers, according to a new review of 63 scientific studies stretching back over decades.. .
a team led by miron zuckerman of the university of rochester found a reliable negative relation between intelligence and religiosity in 53 out of 63 studies.
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Qcmbr
Personally I spend far less time thinking faithfully (maintaining a relationship with reality based on trust in a concept that is at odds with the observed physical world) which means my intellect can roam and explore reality without having to pretend it all has to conform with a supernatural , invisible world. My thoughts are my own and I have put aside the self induced insanity of making up alter egos for my internal dialogues. My experience of reality is much more authentic now that the religious theatre is finished and the costume of piety and reverance is removed. Am I cleverer now, no, just a little bit less gullible and better able to think clearly.
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Touchstones of reason failed by Mormonism
by Qcmbr insorry , i said i'd post this last week but i played pc games with my bro instead.
my bad.. simple basic errors in the mormon meme that are missed by active members.. history.
book of mormon purports to describe actual historical events most notably two huge civilisations on the americas , one of which is israelite.
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Qcmbr
If you feel like reading the transcript of the Swedish meeting that has shaken things up.
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Touchstones of reason failed by Mormonism
by Qcmbr insorry , i said i'd post this last week but i played pc games with my bro instead.
my bad.. simple basic errors in the mormon meme that are missed by active members.. history.
book of mormon purports to describe actual historical events most notably two huge civilisations on the americas , one of which is israelite.
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Qcmbr
You may be right. I've just never seen the LDS church taking so many hits and losing so many core members. I have several open discussions both socially and on facebook with still active members and most express a sense of bewilderment and are simply falling back to testimony statements ('I feel the spirit', 'I know its true' etc.) The level of discussion (in the 'old' days you never discussed any doubts) , the amount of information and the number of highly committed individuals leaving is unprecedented.