Posts by myelaine

79

Who (not what) is your guilty pleasure? (Controversial favorites)

by Terry in

jw
friends

we all have somebody we are crazy about that almost everybody can't stand.. if you mention their name your companions give you that "look" (ya know the one, like you just got caught picking your nose!).

i was thinking about this the other day.

i was truly curious if i'm mental or if everybody has a guilty pleasure list like i do.. i'm just going to assume we all do until you set me straight.. if you attach a photo and short explanation about why you like these pariahs it will be more meaningful.. .

myelaine

no...it reeks here

79

Who (not what) is your guilty pleasure? (Controversial favorites)

by Terry in

jw
friends

we all have somebody we are crazy about that almost everybody can't stand.. if you mention their name your companions give you that "look" (ya know the one, like you just got caught picking your nose!).

i was thinking about this the other day.

i was truly curious if i'm mental or if everybody has a guilty pleasure list like i do.. i'm just going to assume we all do until you set me straight.. if you attach a photo and short explanation about why you like these pariahs it will be more meaningful.. .

myelaine

I collect vintage perfume...I have hundreds of bottles.

60

If you believe God exists, what are your thoughts on what pleases him most?

by Fernando in

our family has come to believe that god really wants each individual to personally and independently seek, find and walk with him - quite apart from what other humans say, think, believe or do.. we believe we were created as semi-autonomous beings.

when our inner compass is recalibrated, and we then self-direct, the outcomes seem best.. when we are instead led by humans, their hierarchies, organisations and ideas, the outcomes on the whole seem unfavourable.

legalism (rules), moralism (a moral code), ethnocentrism (doctrine), and gnosticism (knowledge) may seem meritorious.. yet these do not seem to lead to the deep inner transformation needed.

myelaine

dear Fernando...

you said: "We cannot earn, deserve or pay for salvation as religionists would have us believe (with the view to assuming authority and control over us)"...

please explain who or what you mean by "religionist" and "assuming authority" and "control over"

love michelle

149

Christ's 'silence' on slavery.

by tec in

jw
friends

one of the accusations against christ that some people make to me from time to time is that christ never spoke out against slavery, and so he must condone it.. i would submit that slavery (the forcible enslaving of your fellow man)... is not the root problem.

it is merely a symptom of the root problem.

christ came to deal with the root.

myelaine

dear Tammy...

as long as you try to make your lord a proponent of the social gospel you will find the need to answer for his "silence" on slavery.

Jesus came to seek and save that which was lost...His sole purpose was to redeem those who would believe on Him for their eternal salvation by cleansing us from the sin that leaves us seperated from the Holy God. This was accomplished for us in His death, burial and resurrection. Jesus didn't come to feed the poor, teach people how to be more loving, or to end slavery...He wasn't sent to teach morality...He came to SAVE people into the everlasting kingdom of God. ( For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’ For the things concerning Me have an end.” luke 22:37)

THIS life we know and experience now is but a vapor:

psalm 39:5 "Indeed, You have made my days as handbreadths, and my age is as nothing before You; certainly every man at his best state is but vapor." selah.

james 4:14 "whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away."

love michelle

13

Who will be Raptured?

by wannabe in

notice in luke satan offered jesus all the kingdoms of the world, for one act of worship.

" {john 6:44 nwt} notice?

notice what jesus had to say about the ones who really were to be raptured away to heaven: {revelation 3:16}.

myelaine

dear wannabe...

you said: "Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom." {Luke 12:32 NIV} So, quite clearly, a Little Flock is NOT 2.1 Billion, so lets get serious here. How does this LITTLE FLOCK come into being? I'll clear that up next:"...

not to put too fine a point on it, but 144,000 isn't a little flock either...12 would be a little flock.

love michelle

494

Jesus wife fragment is a fake

by Christ Alone in

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/21/gospel-jesus-wife-forgery.

gospel of jesus's wife is fake, claims expertscholar says papyrus fragment believed to provide evidence that jesus was married is a modern forgery.

karen king from harvard university holds the papyrus fragment that has four words written in coptic, which are believed to prove jesus was married.

myelaine

dear Tammy...

yes, all israel will be saved...all israel does not equal all jews. israel is comprised of those who believe in God, they are called the israel of God.

certainly every one of those pharisees had the opportunity to repent and be accepted into the kingdom...but it doesn't appear that they did. because Jesus made the stipulation that they must repent and believe in Him but they didn't they are not part of the community of believers anymore...they are ex-communicated and cut off. matthew 3:10...do you know how people are ex-communicated?...they aren't barred from entering into a church building and hearing the message. That is always open to everyone. It is the communion that they are asked not to partake of...they are still ministered too by the leaders and congregation while they or obliged to examine themselves. If one is seditious he may be removed from the fellowship to protect the rest of the congregation. interestingly the pharisees didn't barr Jesus from their midst but presented Him as being seditious towards the state.

you said: "Give even a cup of cold water to one of the least of my (Christ's) brothers, and you will not lose your reward. (who is he talking to... all who belong to Him are his brothers and sisters... so who is it that will not lose his reward for doing good to his brothers and sisters?)"

...onlythosewhodo this will get their reward...On this very forum, many an unbeliever would rebuke faster than give concessions.

you said: " I 'go on' about the church, because that is what you follow, claiming that it speaks truth, and has been 'approved' from the start. I go on, because the actions of the church show it to be imperfect, and at times at ODDS with Christ. As do its teachings"

...Jesus Christ founded the church as a body of believers...I don't kid myself that everyone who has participated in the communion has been a footstep follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ and neither do I condemn the entire community made up of millions and millions of people throughout these generations as you seem to do. Tammy even the churches listed in the book of revelation had their faults but they were the churches of Jesus Christ. would you list some teachings that are adhered to across the board, by the church, that are at odds with what Jesus Christ taught.

...I don't "follow" the church...I participate in communion and fellowship with others in the church...and the life in the church building can change drasticly. A new pastor can come in and lose his congregation if they see that he doesn't preach truth according to the witness of the indwelling Holy Spirit in the individual and also in accordance with the revealed scripture) This happens in small congregations and in entire denominations...the united church is an example of this schisim. These schisims wouldn't happen if people were following "the church". the reformation wouldn't happen if people were following the church. the Holy Spirit bears witness to the people that the theology of the church is true and sound...not every doctrine. That is, there are many houses and if one house gives more significance to a particular doctrine and another house doesn't, that in no way means that the doctrine is wrong or lack of emphasis on that doctrine is wrong...it just means they are varied like the churches listed in revelation...but these churches all adhere to the essential DOGMA, teaching or theology about WHO Jesus Christ is. ie: God the Son...the fullnessoftheGodhead bodily.

you said: "Michelle, the nicene creed came as a result of division, and there was a consensus reached by a vote, yes? Does that sound like the Holy Spirit? Does the Holy Spirit depend upon a vote?"...

...the meeting was called to bring together the canon and the nicene creed came as a result of the need to thoroughly clarify what the church taught...the dissenters were given opportunity to present their opinions regarding the accepted teaching of the One God as a unity of trinity, and the notion was counter debated by them. The vote was to prove that there was agreement...not to decide which side would win the arguement. if that was the case there would be no vote because, clearly, the Holy Spirit had already brought many more people to witness to the unity of the trinity than those who came to oppose it.

you asked: "How do you know that this is the truth, then?"...the Holy Spirit witnesses to God the Son and that He is the fullness of the Godhead bodily...He can not deny Himself.

you said: "They would not... I do not know where you even get that from anything I wrote. Any who belong to Christ as his brothers are resurrected when He returns (the living and those who have died) at the same time. The first resurrection... and Paul corroborates this. But in the second resurrection, there are those whose names are written in the lamb's book of life... these are also given life. These are not his brothers/sisters... because they were already resurrected in the first resurrection."

...lazarus was resurrected and died again...being a believer his second death had no power over him. rev.20:6...he was assured of the kingdom. in daniel there are those who will be resurrected (having already died without a final destination)...they will be given opportunity to choose their final destination...some to everlasting life in chooseing Jesus Christ and some to everlasting shame and contempt(how can their shame and contempt be everlasting if they cease to exist?)...their second death shows finality too. either they are held by the power of God to salvation or they are held by the power of satan. Thats why it is also mentions that there is opportunity to witness and those who do will be able to turn some of these resurrected ones to righteousness (Jesus Christ)daniel 12:2-3.

you said: "Satan and his angels, and all whose names are not written in the book of life are thrown into the lake of fire... which is defined as the second death. One does not even have to guess at what it is. It is written right there. The lake of fire is death, and it is eternal."

...the resurection of Jesus Christ takes the "sting" out of death only for those who believe in Him.

you said: "And if you even stop to think about it, truly think about it... what person could possibly have any sort of peace, let alone happiness, if their children were confined to hell to suffer for all eternity. Better for there to be nothing for everyone, than that. "

...the scriptures say that God will wipe every tear from "their" eyes and for them there will be no more mourning...what God of peace and love would cause us to keep memories of loved ones who weren't with Him in the kingdom?...the whole truth of what Jesus and the apostles say about helll gives blood bought believers all the more reason to preach with tears in our eyes to those who are UNSAVED...THIS is like the righteousness of noah, Tammy.

love michelle

494

Jesus wife fragment is a fake

by Christ Alone in

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/21/gospel-jesus-wife-forgery.

gospel of jesus's wife is fake, claims expertscholar says papyrus fragment believed to provide evidence that jesus was married is a modern forgery.

karen king from harvard university holds the papyrus fragment that has four words written in coptic, which are believed to prove jesus was married.

myelaine

dear Tammy...

you said: "And what of those whose names are written in the lamb's book of life? (those who are not His brothers, because all who belonged to him - dead and alive - were resurrected to be with Him at the same time) I do not think the adversary can take those from Christ. They, too, belong to Him."

the book of daniel tells us that those who sleep in the dust will be resurrected some to everlasting life in Christ (in bodies like the resurrected body of Jesus Christ) and some will be resurrected to shame and everlasting contempt(in bodies like the resurrected body of Jesus Christ)...if these ones belong to Christ, why are they resurrected to shame and everlasting contempt?...wouldn't these resurrection bodies be inhabited by the same ones that Jesus says will be thrown into the outer darkness of hell where their worm dieth not? that place where their will be weeping and gnashing of teeth?...that place "created" for satan and his fallen angels...

please explain.

love michelle

494

Jesus wife fragment is a fake

by Christ Alone in

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/21/gospel-jesus-wife-forgery.

gospel of jesus's wife is fake, claims expertscholar says papyrus fragment believed to provide evidence that jesus was married is a modern forgery.

karen king from harvard university holds the papyrus fragment that has four words written in coptic, which are believed to prove jesus was married.

myelaine

dear Tammy...

you said: "Because you limit the full power of the Holy Spirit to a chosen few"...I would hardly call millions and millions of people who have entered into the unity of the Father and Son since the beginning of the church "a few".

didn't Jesus Christ disfellowship/ex-communicate the pharisees from Himself, His disciples and the kingdom, Tammy?

"You sure about that?

They rejected Him. They killed Him. They 'disfellowshipped/ex-communicated' Him and his disciples from their temple."

...Jesus heard their "case" and judged them didn't He?...were they, at any point, asked to enter into fellowship with Him? His disciples? or were they told that they wouldn't enter into the kingdom?...He sounded pretty firm on His ruling...the church, however, remembering that they were shown mercy by Jesus Christ may disfellowship or ex-communicate a person but they also welcome back a repentant sinner...just like God has shown them to do.

you said: "As for the things on love: let me ask you a question Michelle. Of those who have not been given an opportunity to know Christ or God (but who do act in love toward their fellow man, golden rule, mercy, forgiveness and all that)... do you think those people are going to hell?" ...I kinda thought you would continue your "law of love" arguement...I've commented in other posts to you and others about what I believe about those who HAVEN'T heard the gospel. Lets bring this a little closer to home, shall we?...Tammy, are there ANY gentiles here who don't have the law?...or haven't heard the gospel of Jesus Christ?...NOT likely...that IS the power of God in and for the church...2 cor 10:3-6...ephesians 6:10-17...I'll ask you again: "When gentiles do by nature the things of the law they are a law unto themselves...the nature of the law is an eye for an eye...therefore, do unto others as you would have them do unto you...what has this got to do with people being forgiven solely on the basis of their apprehending the shed blood of Jesus Christ for their salvation?"...since NONE of the people here are without the law (unless they are saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ) they will be judged by the law...and you know that NO ONE can keep the law. How is your "law of love" going to cover them? The Holy Spirit has succeeded in using the ministrations of the church to bring these people here AND their every thought captive to Christ in order that they make a decision FOR Jesus Christ and you're letting them off the hook, so to speak, by feeding them a lie, your "law of love" ...Jesus said in john 8:24 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." and here almost 2000 years later you say, words to the effect, surely you will not die...

the theology of the historical/orthodox church from the time of the apostles to this very day is consistant with what Jesus Christ taught...all that He taught...not just the points that can make Him seem to be non-judgemental towards those who reject Him.

you said: "I would have to disagree on that. Does the church still teach that someone who commits suicide cannot be buried on holy ground, and is not going to heaven? What about not being called teachers? What about giving all you have to the poor? Christ did not sit in a huge cathedral, with gold and jewels dripping off him; with ties to political interests, etc. What good was any of that 'theology' when the church did not follow Christ, but instead followed its own interests, lying and saying that those were in the name of Christ? What good was that theology when native american children were being abused and deprived of their heritage and families?

you said: "So what good is theology without love? It is nothing without love, Michelle. Absolutely nothing. Love covers over a multitude of sins, Michelle. Not correct theology."

...are you making a distinction between theology and doctrines or those within the church who are disciples of Jesus Christ and those who are not?...are you taking into account the protestant reformation which saw the church grow and mature in its formation of doctrine (not theology)? theology is the study of God and how He relates to the world. christian theology is the study of how God relates to the world and His church. Which makes me wonder...why do you go on about the sins of the church but you wont cover or forgive the multitude of them?...you hold those sins against the the church and bring them up to suit your purpose...is that Christ like?

you said: "It [doctrines] changed from the beginning. You can see that clearly just from looking at the apostles creed vs. the nicene creed. The nicene creed 'added' to the apostles creed."...

...the theological and scholarly consensus was clarified in a written document for the benefit of those who were to teach and preach so that it would be known throughout the congregations that this wasn't just the opinion of a few people. this theology of God would form a sound foundation in which Jesus IS the cornerstone. With that many witnesses anyone can and should trust, put faith in and continue to build faith in the God expoused in that theology. that theology witnessed by the Holy Spirit held the hearts of men until recently, Tammy. With the advent of contrary cults and sects that came up with their own theology and subsequently caused men to follow other doctrines as well...mens hearts hardened and many no longer want to endure even sound theology...they would prefer to wander their own way...even when Jesus sends out shepherds to bring them back...

let me ask you, has your lord done his job as far as shepherding you into a great flock of his sheep?

love michelle

494

Jesus wife fragment is a fake

by Christ Alone in

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/21/gospel-jesus-wife-forgery.

gospel of jesus's wife is fake, claims expertscholar says papyrus fragment believed to provide evidence that jesus was married is a modern forgery.

karen king from harvard university holds the papyrus fragment that has four words written in coptic, which are believed to prove jesus was married.

myelaine

dear Tammy...

I'm not sure where you think my theology is close to the WT's. I haven't ever said that only the disciples were given the Holy Spirit. That wouldn't be consistant with the command of Jesus to go into the world and teach and make disciples and baptise them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I've state that there is the need to get the correct foundational teaching about who Jesus Christ the man is from the church who was given the teaching authority(the apostles and later disciples that Jesus sent out). The Holy Spirit bears witness to this teaching in that He has caused the historic church to grow from the first small group of disciples that were sent out, each of these subsequent disciples that are brought into the church are given the gift of the Holy Spirit that is how the church grows from generation to generation.

We can be certain that the "fathers" of the faith (including Jesus Christ) were receiving their visions and hearing from God can't we?...your voice...there is no "we" certainty, just "me" certainty. I'm not even sure why you compared their experience in founding the church to yours unless you think it is a means to validate what you are going through. I guess you might also have compared the experiences to present the fact that even though they collaborated what He said, they all misunderstood what Jesus meant when He taught about them hell

you said: "Even though He did say to go and make disciples, those disciples, according to you, could not then receive the promised gift of the Holy Spirit for themselves and be taught by that Spirit. They could only trust in men, and be taught by men."...point me to where I've said this, please.

you said: "They [the apostles] argued some, and did not accept Paul for some time either. In any case, there is inconsistency between what men teach now... (such as yours and other churches)... and what men taught then. How do you know what is being taught now (or by which group) is truth, unless you know and look to the Truth: Christ."...There is emphesis put on some doctrines over other doctrines depending on the denomination but the core dogma about who Jesus Christ is and what He only has done in His death, burial and resurrection has remained the same from the beginning...through the protestant reformation and until just recently when there has been a shift away from these core truths. These shifts have been undertaken in order to be more inclusive towards those who "don't believe" in that sort of thing...these denominations (corporate)are those who were once of the church but have now been made manifest that they (people) were not of the church.

you said: "Don't be silly. There is inconsistency in the bible; there is even inconsistency between what paul at first taught (regarding 'disfellowshippin/ex-communication) and what Christ taught. So even in the bible, everything should be tested against Christ and His teachings. Nothing will contradict him."...didn't Jesus Christ disfellowship/ex-communicate the pharisees from Himself, His disciples and the kingdom, Tammy?

you said: "Well, look at Cornelius... a gentile. "Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a remembrance before God."...I suspect you will think that this is only because he believed IN God to begin with. But even Paul says that when gentiles do the things required of the law by nature, then they are a law unto themselves."...actually, yes, I do think that he believed in God to begin with and that is why his gifts were brought up as a rememberance before God. THAT is the essance of the law that Jesus spoke of...love God with all your heart, mind and body and the other is like it, love your neighbour as yourself. There is the necessity to believe in, acknowledge and LOVE God first!...that is why your "law of love" hasn't any basis in scripture.

When gentiles do by nature the things of the law they are a law unto themselves...the nature of the law is an eye for an eye...therefore, do unto others as you would have them do unto you...what has this got to do with people being forgiven solely on the basis of their apprehending the shed blood of Jesus Christ for their salvation?

you said: "And your church, Michelle, has not been internally consistent. It has not always followed Christ at all; but in fact has done things AGAINST Christ's teachings. But don't be blind about it."...(it's Jesus' church, my faith community). sure, that is because some people are inconsistant but the theology of the church isn't and that is what I've been saying...the theology of the historical/orthodox church from the time of the apostles to this very day is consistant with what Jesus Christ taught...all that He taught...not just the points that can make Him seem to be non-judgemental towards those who reject Him.

I've never been blind to the things that some who were called to be "shepherd's" have done, It serves no purpose to ignore reality or pretent horrible things didn't happen......on the contrary, I've mentioned them TO YOU specifically in a post within the last month or so.

love michelle

494

Jesus wife fragment is a fake

by Christ Alone in

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/21/gospel-jesus-wife-forgery.

gospel of jesus's wife is fake, claims expertscholar says papyrus fragment believed to provide evidence that jesus was married is a modern forgery.

karen king from harvard university holds the papyrus fragment that has four words written in coptic, which are believed to prove jesus was married.

myelaine

dear Christ Alone...

please don't fret. I think we all may have given consideration and commented on the OP...

love michelle