Posts by myelaine

148

Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church

by cofty in

the following is an extract from something i wrote 16 years ago soon after leaving the watchtower.

i am posting it because it may help honest jws consider how far their beliefs are at odds with new testament christians.

if they have "the truth" then their attitude to jesus ought to reflect that of the apostles.

myelaine

dear Vanderhoven...

you said: "It is sufficient for salvation to believe Jesus is the Son of God without fully grasping His ontology...if one has a relationship with Jesus Christ."...

how can a person who doesn't understand the ontology of Jesus but who continues denying the teaching of the Holy Spirit by clinging to their own understanding actually be in a "biblically normative" relationship with Jesus if they have been denying the teaching of the Holy Spirit through His MANY means?...

the OT has statements saying that God is our salvation, King etc., Jesus said: "before abraham was, I AM","the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son and shall call His name Immanuel". isaiah 7:14...which is translated, "God with us". matthew 1:23...the NT testament saints called Jesus God, Saviour and King, the orthodox church has consistantly taught that God is a unity of trinity...and the Holy Spirit is behind leading all of these people to believe and write this truth.

I think that accepting that Jesus is God the Son based on what the Holy Spirit began to teach in isaiah, what Jesus said in the NT, what the NT saints said and what the church teaches (whether one understands it or not) displays subjection to God in humility. That is the kind of person that the Holy Spirit CAN teach...

love michelle

5

Jesus the proto suicide martyr...

by mP in

jw
friends

why couldnt god simply forgive the so called sin debt, why lower his standards and require human sacrifice....

myelaine

dear mP...

you asked: "Why couldnt god simply forgive the so called sin debt"...

scripture says that the wages of sin is *death...so, while death pays for sin it doesn't forgive sin or populate Gods kingdom.

God bought those who would believe back from death BY forgiving the sin debt with shed blood (OT and NT) while giving these ones life through or because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

" But concerning the resurrection of the *dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” matthew 22:31-32

*the implication of scripture is that the physical death of a man isn't followed by death of the spirit as well.

love michelle

148

Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church

by cofty in

the following is an extract from something i wrote 16 years ago soon after leaving the watchtower.

i am posting it because it may help honest jws consider how far their beliefs are at odds with new testament christians.

if they have "the truth" then their attitude to jesus ought to reflect that of the apostles.

myelaine

dear mP...

you said: "I love how people go about making statements about early xians when the truth is we know next to nothing about them...they treated them [slaves] so well they ran away aka Philemon"...

you just stated that onesimus ran away because he was being treated badly...you don't know that but you state it as fact.

The few words we do have suggest he could have "ran away" to hear paul and while with him he became a believer(v. 10)..."For perhaps he departed for a while for this purpose, that you might receive him forever, no longer as a slave but more than a slave, as a beloved brother, especially to me but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord." philemon 15-16

love michelle

148

Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church

by cofty in

the following is an extract from something i wrote 16 years ago soon after leaving the watchtower.

i am posting it because it may help honest jws consider how far their beliefs are at odds with new testament christians.

if they have "the truth" then their attitude to jesus ought to reflect that of the apostles.

myelaine

thank you for the great thread cofty

a thought I'd like share regarding the OP...the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit existed in perfect unity...until the time of the incarnation.

Jesus said: "before abraham was, I AM"...wouldn't that suggest that the proper name of the pre-incarnate Son is YHWH...not Jesus?

I think that the proper pre-incarnate name "YHWH" would be important in establishing why it was prophesied that "the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son and shall call His name Immanuel". isaiah 7:14...which is translated, "God with us". matthew 1:23.

perhaps the JW doesn't recognise the importance of the name Immanuel in prophesy and that is another reason that they don't hold the same view of Jesus as the early church.

love michelle

148

Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church

by cofty in

the following is an extract from something i wrote 16 years ago soon after leaving the watchtower.

i am posting it because it may help honest jws consider how far their beliefs are at odds with new testament christians.

if they have "the truth" then their attitude to jesus ought to reflect that of the apostles.

myelaine

dear Christ Alone...

I wasn't arguing with you, I was striving for clarity

love michelle

148

Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church

by cofty in

the following is an extract from something i wrote 16 years ago soon after leaving the watchtower.

i am posting it because it may help honest jws consider how far their beliefs are at odds with new testament christians.

if they have "the truth" then their attitude to jesus ought to reflect that of the apostles.

myelaine

dear PSacramento...

mankind is a creation of God...the humanness of God the Son came from a creation of God...Mary.

dear Christ Alone...

you said: "But did Jesus exist as God before man was created? Yes! Jesus existed "in the beginning". John 1:1. This would be before everything else, including man."...john 1:1 says the Word existed before all things...it doesn't say that Jesus the Man existed before all things. Yes!...God the Son...the Word existed before all things but the flesh Man, Jesus came into being within the creation.

if you are saying that Jesus existed in the flesh before the creation (NOT just the notion of the Son's eventual incarnation as Jesus) then how do you reconcile that idea with the statement of God's nature..."God is Spirit"?

love michelle

148

Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church

by cofty in

the following is an extract from something i wrote 16 years ago soon after leaving the watchtower.

i am posting it because it may help honest jws consider how far their beliefs are at odds with new testament christians.

if they have "the truth" then their attitude to jesus ought to reflect that of the apostles.

myelaine

dear PSacramento...

you said: " Where is the word created? to conceive in the sense of giving birth is not to create. "...

I'm not talking about "to conceive in the sense of giving birth"...I happen to believe that Jesus the Man was created at a point in [our] time. God created from His Spirit and the ovum of the virgin Mary...the result is a completely new creation. This in no way takes anything away from Jesus the Christ, but solidifies His UNIQUENESS. fully God, fully human.

Jesus came into BEING at the time of conception (He was not there, then He was there). God the Son is self-existant and didn't come into BEING, He's always BEEN. He said: "Before abraham was, I AM"...

do you believe that Jesus the Man is pre-existant and un-created? how have you come to these conclusions?

I think that because Jesus the Man is relative to the salvation OF man, it doesn't make sense and or even seem possible that Jesus the Man was pre-existant to the creation OF man. He couldn't really be OF the seed of Jesse if there was no Jesse yet Though, the need for a saviour(the Christ, Messiah) of man can be known ahead of [our] time (creation) by God since He sees the end from the beginning. Hence the certainty of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

love michelle

p.s. you said: "John 1:1 is a statement of nature. Jesus is divine. Like Colossians, Philipians and Hebrews, all statements of his equal nature with the Father."...having some of the attributes of God can equate with some of the characteristics of God...but being of the the same nature as God would make Jesus deity...fact scripture states that the indwelling Holy Spirit produces divine qualities or attributes in men but that doesn't make them deity...divinity and deity are corresponding but different.

148

Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church

by cofty in

the following is an extract from something i wrote 16 years ago soon after leaving the watchtower.

i am posting it because it may help honest jws consider how far their beliefs are at odds with new testament christians.

if they have "the truth" then their attitude to jesus ought to reflect that of the apostles.

myelaine

dear PSacramento...

you said: "no where will you find mention that Jesus was created "...

Jesus the Man was created, it is mentioned in luke 1:31.

the office or role of the Christ is pre-existant and is fulfilled in the person of God the Son who is from everlasting. (rev. 5:12-14)

in order to fully restore the kingdom of God to israel (acts 1:2-8) the Son (john 1:29-30) had to be born in the flesh, die and be resurrected.

1 timothy 2:5...isaiah 9:6-7(note: from that time forward, even forever)

love michelle

317

Does God's foreknowledge take away from free will?

by Christ Alone in

just by knowing what will happen, that doesn't mean that we can prevent or cause something to happen.

my knowing that does not prevent them the free will of making the choice.. it's the same with god.

if god is not restricted to existence in the present, then the future is known by god because god indwells the future as well as the present and the past.

myelaine

dear Entirely Possible...

you asked: "Why won't any believe answer my question? I've asked politely several times.

If God can know/guess/predict/etc. the future and there IS free-will, is there ANY chance, any percentage or any possibility that a person making a choice could choose differently that God thinks or has seen it will turn out?"...

I think because God can see the beginning from the end He can see your final choice [regarding Jesus Christ] as well as every choice you make before that. He is ever present in your "present", past and future.

love michelle

p.s. I say "regarding Jesus Christ" for the reason that the bible IS a dialogue between God and those He chose to be His servants...So everything that He wants to relay to mankind is outlined in the bible. That being, HIS plan of salvation. This doesn't mean that He isn't concerned with those who don't believe, because He makes the sun to rise on the wicked and the righteous...but He DOES have a purpose that is fulfilled (romans 10:1-36)and that His purpose is fulfilled as a blessing to the nations through His servants is His primary concern...xo

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

myelaine

dear New Chapter...

you said: "Nobody can ever judge the pureness of your motives for serving this god, not even you, because of the terror that is held over your head if you should refuse to do so."...

I'm not sure where you get the idea that terror is held over my head. I chose to turn to Jesus Christ for salvation because I know that I can't change who I really am and I don't suppose that others can change who they really are either. starting in the garden man has stood in opposition to God and its been man vs man right out the gate. God is going to change my nature to a reflection of Jesus Christ and save me from those who want my blood, I can't discern terror from God in that.

When the crowds shouted "crucify Him!" they were not sparing their nature (man vs. man) but God in His wisdom turned the tables on them by using their nature to both unite man to man (for those who would believe in Jesus Christ) and simultaneously bring those who would believe into union with God. "It is finished!"

you've recorded the fact that my preaching salvation in Jesus Christ isn't for my benefit (neither was it benefitting the first christians who were actually persecuted for their witness)...it is done for the benefit of those who would believe the gospel message and turn to Him as well. Now, no one is forcing you to turn to Jesus Christ for salvation but you've got to understand that once the last believer departs the Holy Spirit departs as well (2 thess. 2:7)...the world is going to get really ugly (man vs. man but for those who are united in opposition to God)...and then having rejected salvation in Jesus Christ (your flesh and spirit...wholeness)...you will be left with those spirits (fallen angels) who have chosen to work in opposition to God (jude 6-7)...You will be left OUTSIDE the new jerusalem.

I'm not threatening you with hell or condemning you to hell. I'm advising you (someone who has heard the gospel) to please turn to Jesus Christ for salvation because I am persuaded that to your benefit that is the best of your two options as recorded in scripture.

love michelle