Posts by myelaine

23

Satan & the Garden of Eden

by love2Bworldly in

hi-- i was forced to listen to a jw witnessing on a mass transit bus the other day.

she said something that sparked my attention.

i read almost the whole bible cover to cover when i was a jehovahs witless.. she stated that satan was in charge of the garden of eve as an assignment from god to watch over adam & eve but he became too full of himself.. how in the world do the jws explain this teaching of satan being in charge over the garden?

myelaine

dear mP...

the serpent is not representitive of messengers of God as you have stated but have been representitive of wisdom. For instance...the depiction of the serpent in the garden of Eden as "more cunning than any beast of the field" is drawn from what was commonly accepted in Egypt...the serpent was symbolic of wisdom.(that is why the serpent referenced "knowledge" to be like God) The pharoah had a headpiece that placed a serpent right in the middle of his forehead to symbolize his wisdom in ruling over the people.

in the book of revelation there is depicted a great war between the "forces" of God and the "forces" of satan...it reaches its finale when the wisdom of satan and "his" angels are cast down and there is no place found in heaven for "him"(rev 12:8-9)...the serpents offer of "wisdom" of good and evil is shown to be ultimately inferior to the life giving wisdom of the knowledge of God.

we are told to be as wise as serpents but as innocent as doves (matt 10:16)...in revelation it is the wisdom of God that leads to knowledge of who is behind the scenes in deceiving the world with his "wisdom" (rev 13:16,18) ...(the wisdom of God in the knowledge of Jesus Christ as the ONLY way of salvation has little VALUE in todays economy, so to speak). in matthew 11:18-19 Jesus is comparing those who rejected JtB and his message about the Messiah(john 1:6-13) to those who rejected the wisdom from God...the children who didn't reject the wisdom of God in Jesus Christ are NOT those portrayed in verse 17 still waiting for the Messiah to appear from among them. proverbs 9:1-6, 10.

there is a contrast between the wisdom of God and the wisdom afforded satan throughout the bible. The wisdom of God gives life, the wisdom of the serpent brings death. It is shown in the bible that this is the way it has always been since the beginning. God works in mysterious and wise ways to draw men to Himself: John 3:14-15...

love michelle

229

How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies.

by mP in

theres a clear difference between prophecies (predictions of future events) and laws(stuff you should and shouldnt do).. now since xians always says jesus fullfilled the law, how does one fullfill a bunch of requirements like dont murder, dont worship idols, shave your beard like this etc.. there are 613 laws in the torah, jewish rabbis have done all the hard work and we have a nice list on wiki.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot.

im confused which of those some how select a unique individual to be the unique messiah ?

then again there were many messiahs, every king and priest of israel and judea was a messiah.

myelaine

dear mP...

let me ask you...do you understand how God fulfilled or enacted(to act out) the law of moses in forgiving the sins of the jews?

love michelle

229

How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies.

by mP in

theres a clear difference between prophecies (predictions of future events) and laws(stuff you should and shouldnt do).. now since xians always says jesus fullfilled the law, how does one fullfill a bunch of requirements like dont murder, dont worship idols, shave your beard like this etc.. there are 613 laws in the torah, jewish rabbis have done all the hard work and we have a nice list on wiki.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot.

im confused which of those some how select a unique individual to be the unique messiah ?

then again there were many messiahs, every king and priest of israel and judea was a messiah.

myelaine

dear mP...

God is in the OT...the Holy Spirit has revealed by means of scripture that Jesus Christ is God the Son. The fact that this mystery hasn't been revealed to you personally doesn't make it a lie. the OT scriptures had to be opened or revealed to the apostles too.

love michelle

229

How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies.

by mP in

theres a clear difference between prophecies (predictions of future events) and laws(stuff you should and shouldnt do).. now since xians always says jesus fullfilled the law, how does one fullfill a bunch of requirements like dont murder, dont worship idols, shave your beard like this etc.. there are 613 laws in the torah, jewish rabbis have done all the hard work and we have a nice list on wiki.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot.

im confused which of those some how select a unique individual to be the unique messiah ?

then again there were many messiahs, every king and priest of israel and judea was a messiah.

myelaine

dear mP...

you said: "I will address your scriptures below and show how they fail."...

how are you going to show me that God didn't forgive those sins?...how are you going to show me that Jesus, God the Son, isn't the One who forgave those sins? because that is my assertion, that is what you are going to have to disprove and show to be a fail.

love michelle

229

How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies.

by mP in

theres a clear difference between prophecies (predictions of future events) and laws(stuff you should and shouldnt do).. now since xians always says jesus fullfilled the law, how does one fullfill a bunch of requirements like dont murder, dont worship idols, shave your beard like this etc.. there are 613 laws in the torah, jewish rabbis have done all the hard work and we have a nice list on wiki.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot.

im confused which of those some how select a unique individual to be the unique messiah ?

then again there were many messiahs, every king and priest of israel and judea was a messiah.

myelaine

dear mP...

"how exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies"...

Jesus is God the Son and He forgave the jewish people thereby enacting/fulfilling the law...judging the people in order that the written law would be put into effect...the law isn't self fulfilling. laws are broken every single day they are not enacted or fulfilled until the law breaker comes before a judge and a sentence is handed down...God the Son, Jesus as judge, forgave and did not hold the sins against the jews from sacrifice to sacrifice He aquitted them. Jesus said that the pharisees followed the law but forgot about the mercy that was provided by God in forgiveness of sins with the sacrifice.

lev. 4:20, lev 4:26, lev 4:31, lev 4:35, lev 5:10, lev 5:13, lev 5:16, lev 5:18, lev 6:7, lev 19:22, numbers 14:19

love michelle

"Comeone surely you can see that is not from God. The same is true of the vast majority of the law. The concerns of the law show it for what it is."...from my post 2519: "the decalogue that God gave to moses is perfect and will not be altered...it will stand forever. the other laws were mans (the priests) attempt to further define what a person has to do to walk in righteousness"...mans laws are by no means perfect.

229

How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies.

by mP in

theres a clear difference between prophecies (predictions of future events) and laws(stuff you should and shouldnt do).. now since xians always says jesus fullfilled the law, how does one fullfill a bunch of requirements like dont murder, dont worship idols, shave your beard like this etc.. there are 613 laws in the torah, jewish rabbis have done all the hard work and we have a nice list on wiki.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot.

im confused which of those some how select a unique individual to be the unique messiah ?

then again there were many messiahs, every king and priest of israel and judea was a messiah.

myelaine

dear mP...

you said: "Really so rape and slavery are righetous "...

I think you are bearing false witness and judgeing men with evil intent. why do you so quickly jump to the conclusion that women taken into the protection of the victorious army were raped? An army steeped in the moral requirements of such a stringent law should be given more credit than you seem to be giving them.

love michelle

229

How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies.

by mP in

theres a clear difference between prophecies (predictions of future events) and laws(stuff you should and shouldnt do).. now since xians always says jesus fullfilled the law, how does one fullfill a bunch of requirements like dont murder, dont worship idols, shave your beard like this etc.. there are 613 laws in the torah, jewish rabbis have done all the hard work and we have a nice list on wiki.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot.

im confused which of those some how select a unique individual to be the unique messiah ?

then again there were many messiahs, every king and priest of israel and judea was a messiah.

myelaine

the law doesn't say a perfect man will come along...the law says that a perfect sacrifice is required.

Jesus was the perfect sacrifice ordained of God for the forgiveness of sins...for all in the world who would believe in Him.

in the law the people had to believe that the perfect sacrifice that they brought would suffice to be forgiven by God too.

love michelle

229

How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies.

by mP in

theres a clear difference between prophecies (predictions of future events) and laws(stuff you should and shouldnt do).. now since xians always says jesus fullfilled the law, how does one fullfill a bunch of requirements like dont murder, dont worship idols, shave your beard like this etc.. there are 613 laws in the torah, jewish rabbis have done all the hard work and we have a nice list on wiki.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot.

im confused which of those some how select a unique individual to be the unique messiah ?

then again there were many messiahs, every king and priest of israel and judea was a messiah.

myelaine

dear mP...

you said: "If a law is perfect and going to last forever then to say it will be altered significantly is a contradiction."...

I didn't say it would be altered. the people of God will always have to walk in righteousness before a holy God. the decalogue that God gave to moses is perfect and will not be altered...it will stand forever. the other laws were mans (the priests) attempt to further define what a person has to do to walk in righteousness...

paul did say that those ordinances that were against us were nailed to the cross.

I don't know for sure but I doubt that God will require that a man style his hair in a certain way to be righteous.

love michelle

229

How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies.

by mP in

theres a clear difference between prophecies (predictions of future events) and laws(stuff you should and shouldnt do).. now since xians always says jesus fullfilled the law, how does one fullfill a bunch of requirements like dont murder, dont worship idols, shave your beard like this etc.. there are 613 laws in the torah, jewish rabbis have done all the hard work and we have a nice list on wiki.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot.

im confused which of those some how select a unique individual to be the unique messiah ?

then again there were many messiahs, every king and priest of israel and judea was a messiah.

myelaine

the entire the law...all 613 points of it were written as a tutor to show how to walk in righteousness before a holy God...no one could keep all those points of the law and so a sacrifice was required to cover over all the times a jew missed the mark (sinned)...All God had to do to enact or fulfill the law was to forgive those sins...and that is what Jesus did...being God, He forgave those sins and fulfilled the law.

Jehovah God is named as the One to have forgiven sins in the torah. Jesus is God the Son with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit; Jehovah.

love michelle

229

How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies.

by mP in

theres a clear difference between prophecies (predictions of future events) and laws(stuff you should and shouldnt do).. now since xians always says jesus fullfilled the law, how does one fullfill a bunch of requirements like dont murder, dont worship idols, shave your beard like this etc.. there are 613 laws in the torah, jewish rabbis have done all the hard work and we have a nice list on wiki.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot.

im confused which of those some how select a unique individual to be the unique messiah ?

then again there were many messiahs, every king and priest of israel and judea was a messiah.

myelaine

dear mP...

you said: "But Mark 2 was about a time before Jesus died. You have completely skiped commentating on my reply where I show without doubt, that there is no ressurrection in Mark. Jesus never walks amongst us again.

If Jesus could forgive sins then your chrirstian claim about the requirement for him to die to forgive sins is wrong."...

under the jewish system the sacrifice was required in order for sins to be covered for those sins to be forgiven. Jesus provided the sacrificial blood to cover the sins that they might be forgiven. the final sacrifice for those jews who accepted Him as the Lamb of God and for the gentiles as the propitiation for their sins too, otherwise the gentile sins would remain uncovered and therefore unforgiven. Without His shed blood those sins of the gentiles would not be forgiven by God...only the jewish system of sacrifices would be recognised by God and the gentiles would remain outside of any redemption...when the wrath of God against sin (the judges judgeing) comes they would be "without God and hope in the world".

The christian claim about the Messiahship of Jesus and all that He accomplished on the cross for the jew and the gentile wasn't immediately known before Jesus went to His death...(they were surely disappointed when they asked if Jesus was going to restore israel to them at that time; acts 1:6) ...He told His disciples what was about to take place but they didn't know the significance to what was happening until AFTER after His death and resurrection and the Holy Spirit brought everything He had said to their rememberance.(acts 2:23) At that point they were given the revelation of what He accomplished and the OT prophecies and the temple sacrificial system were shown to the apostles to be a forshadow of the "things" to come...

All the things that were written in the OT by inspiration of the Holy Spirit about the suffering servant and all things written about a King redeemer (things that were written but weren't understood at the time of writing; these things indicated something was going to happen but at what time and in what MANNER, they didn't know)were shown by revelation of the Holy Spirit to be about Jesus who was the victorious King who suffered to redeem. At the revelation of these mysteries THEN the christain message of redemption in Christ was proclaimed...not before.

Jesus could forgive the sins of the jew (who He was ministering to in mark 2) under the sacrificial system before He was put to death and shed His blood because those jews would as a work of their faith bring a sacrifice at the prescribed time to have those sins covered over. even His disciples continued to observe the sacrificial system until everything was revealed to them by the Holy Spirit which happened AFTER they observed the required passover.

for the jew under their sacrificial system God didn't have to die to forgive sins...Jesus could forgive their sin knowing that under their system they would be making a sacrifice to cover their sins. that's why being God in the flesh, He could forgive their sins...but to include the gentiles (in the plan of redemption) who didn't have a sacrificial system HE Himself provided the sacrifice...therefore also fulfilling the promises of God to abraham that provided for all people to be blessed who believed in his God.

love michelle