How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies.

by mP 229 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • mP
    mP

    Theres a clear difference between prophecies (predictions of future events) and laws(stuff you should and shouldnt do).

    Now since xians always says Jesus fullfilled the law, how does one fullfill a bunch of requirements like dont murder, dont worship idols, shave your beard like this etc.

    There are 613 laws in the Torah, Jewish Rabbis have done all the hard work and we have a nice list on wiki.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_Mitzvot

    Im confused which of those some how select a unique individual to be the unique messiah ? Then again there were many messiahs, every King and priest of Israel and Judea was a messiah. Messiah just means annoited aka selected one.

    As always scriptures and quotes here for everyone to read.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    I always took Paul's words about the Christ fulfilling the Law to mean that the coming of the Christ was the Law having done its job. "Our Tutor leading to Christ" I believe he says.

    So, the Law was only "prophetic"in the sense of showing the need for Christ to do away with sin.

    I do not belive in any of that personally, from original sin on, but I think Paul did.

    Many people of the time were waiting for a Deliverer Messiah , the Qumran community were waiting for two I believe, but when Paul heard the voice in his head, he thought the Christ had spoken to him.

  • mP
    mP

    Phizzy:

    Thats how xians read Pauls message but that doenst change the fact theres no prophecy in the big list of laws from Moses. THe so called prophets and their prophecies are another matter.

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    The Law proided prophetic patterns that Christ fulfilled.

    For instance, the unleavened bread at Passover time represented the sinless body of Christ at the first coming. The first wave offering of the firstfruits represented the aspects of the first coming, again, with emphasis on unleavened bread. As Christ said, the bread represented his body that was to be given in sacrifice, the wine his blood.

    The second first fruits wave offering was at the time of Pentecost. Pentecost represents those things to be fulfilled at the second coming. Thus two loaves were waved at the second coming. This represented Christ and the anointed who are presented to Jehovah at the time of the second coming. But note the wave offering at Pentecost is of bread with leaven, regular loaves from the house. Again, bread represents the physical body of Christ. Thus the Law tells us that Christ would be in an imperfect body at the second coming.

    Pentecost also represents the fulflilment of prophecy, the 1335 days. Christ arrives at the time of the Festival of Booths. This is another part of the Law. It represents God coming down to dwell with mankind via Jesus Christ. The booths represented details of how Christ would arrive. The house represented the temple, so the booths which were outside the house, represented that Christ would not arrive as a formal part of the temple, but outside that temple. Also, it represented that Christ would not be born in the house, but outside the house, where the animals were kept, in a booth. Thus Christ fulfilled this by being born in an animal shelter after which he was placed in a manger. So all of that was symbolic of how Christ arrives.

    Now Christ dies in the middle of the week per prophecy. That is very specific. A week is seven days. When you apply the "day for a year" formula (Ezk 4:6), this represents a week of 7 years, with Christ dying precisely at 3.5 years. Christ dies specifically at the time of Passover; therefore, the 70th week must begin in the Fall, at the time of the Festival of Booths. Thus the FOB represents when Christ arrives and Passover the time he dies. From the last day of the Festival of Booths, which is a special sabbath, until the day before the special sabbath of the 21st of Passover, there are the symbolic 1290 days. Christ died on Nisan 20th, Thursday. There are 50 days to Pentecost from the sabbath of the 15th. Thus there are 45 days from the 20th to Pentecost. Thus Pentecost, fulfills the 1335 days, which is linked to the second coming.

    When you substitute the "day for a year" formula, the 1335 days becomes the end of 1335 years. The 1290 days ends the gentile times and the end of Jewish exile on November 30, 1947. So 45 years later would mark the 2nd coming between November 30, 1992 and November 30, 1993. Thus the Law regarding Pentecost and the prophecy regarding the 1335 days are both connected. See how that works?

    These are just examples of how the Law is fulfilled by Christ, as well as the prophecies, which are interconnected with the Law.

    If you are chosen to understand these things and you are of the elect, then it all fits. But if you're not chosen to understand these things, then it might seem confusing; especially if you are insistent upon trying to find error. That's very dangerous, because to those with much, more will be given. That means that if God was going to perform some miracles, or say I, as the Christ would raise someone from the dead or cure someone, it would be secretive and for the elect to see, so they would believe even more. So basically, you don't know if some miracles are now happening or not, since they would be for the elect. Just like the "sign of the son of man" appears to the elect, and is understood by them, but not the world of Christendom in general. On the other hand, if you are resistant of scripture or think God is not real or the Bible is not true, then what God will do is take what you don't have and increase what you don't have. To those with nothing, even that will be taken away. That seems impossible, but not when you consider the negative side of numbers. Nothing is zero. But we do have the concept of a negative number, such as -9 or -15, etc. So this means, that if you come up doubting and trying to find some errors here and there, then instead of finding what you think are say 5 or 6 errors, Jehovah will show you 25 errors or 100 errors, so you will be more confident than ever in ignorance. That is, Jehovah doesn't let you just walk away. He casts you into darkness and then puts stumbling blocks in your way, so that you will stumble and then fall off a steep cliff.

    It's the ALL OR NOTHING formula. You get eternal life, happiness and paradise or heaven on the one hand, or you get eternal death. Only when you come back on Judgment Day, you get to experience paradise and what the world of the righteous is like for a short while before dying the second death. Thus all the wicked see what they will be missing before they die. So in this way, Gehenna, which is the "second death" is described as a place of torment. It is a place of eternal torment, not because they are alive, but because they are in anguish just before death. We have a saying and a concept, therefore, of "rest in peace." Meaning someone lets go of their life and are at peace with themselves when they go. At the same time, there are many ghost movies out there that foster the idea that the spirits of the dead did not die in peace or had not finished something during their lives, so now their souls are restless and they have come back to haunt people. So we have that concept of resting and peace, or not being at peace when someone dies. So in that sense, dying in anguish is represented by eternal torment.

    At this point in time, I've come to accept that many, many things will not be understood except by the elect. This is represented by the five wise virgins who brought along the extra oil not sharing that with the foolish virgins who did not. So there are definitely thouse who will have light who are deivided from those who don't and remain in darkness. Further, Jehovah's Day and thus Armageddon is described as a day of think gloom and darkness. This reflects what happened during Noah's Day at the time of the flood. There was originally a water canopy surrounding the earth which was solid, clear ice. So the world looked like it was under a glass bubble. When it was time for the flood, this ice was superheated and converted to thick rain clouds that would rain down for 40 days and 40 nights. Thus before the flood it was completely dark like it gets before a huge storm today. The sun is totally blocked out. So likely some torches or lamps were lit to be able to see just before the flood, but those were quickly extinguished once the heavy rains started. Those those people died in darkness. They understood what was happening, but they couldn't see anything. Same with Armageddon. Many will understand that Armageddon is happening and that people are dropping dead right and left, but they will wonder how this happened so suddenly or why the Law wasn't fulfilled or why Christ hasn't arrived yet and taken them up to heaven? In the meantime, the elect will know what to expect and will be seeing the fulfillment of Law and Prophecy.

  • prologos
    prologos

    mp: inyour mind, Deutr. 18 contains instructions how to identify -- and deal with false prophets, :-- not fear them , --CUT them OFF--, and of course the reward for obeying the TRUE PROPHET.

    it is the SCHTICK and CARROT like many Mosaic Laws,

    would you consider that as one of the fulfillments by Jesus,

    and other pretenders?

    besides that we die because of the talking snake? and needed a schtick and carrot as a tutor?

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    it is the SCHTICK and CARROT like many Mosaic Laws,

    would you consider that as one of the fulfillments by Jesus,

    and other pretenders?

    besides that we die because of the talking snake? and needed a schtick and carrot as a tutor?

    As has also been prophesied, some will understand and some will be confused. They will look but cannot see. They will listen but cannot hear. So the Bible will make sense to those who it was primarily written for, the 'elect' and for outsiders it will remain a "carrot." Some of us are completely fulfilled by scripture which is like a bright light to us now, and others see darkness; the harder they look, the darker it gets.

  • mP
    mP

    Lars:

    The Law proided prophetic patterns that Christ fulfilled.

    MP:

    No it didnt. The law which were written by Moses do not contain prophecies about Jesus at all. They as i have staed above are a list of what you can do or requirements, and what you cant do laws. A prophecy is not a law.

    Feel free to provide a scripture from moses that is a law and a prophecy about jesus.

    None of your long text includes a single refernce back to Moses. All those numbers also are from Daniel which is again not Moses or the Torah.

  • mP
    mP

    ProLogos:

    mp: inyour mind, Deutr. 18 contains instructions how to identify -- and deal with false prophets, :

    MP:

    Your reply is partly correct, but i will elaborate why its not a deal closer for me. There wre many prophets after Moses wrote that text. The text does not exclusively identify Jesus. Its that simple. Xians believe Ezekiel and Daniel wrote prophecies so by that logic they are also candidates. We need a few more to narrow down the list.

    PRO:

    -- not fear them , --CUT them OFF--, and of course the reward for obeying the TRUE PROPHET.

    MP:

    I have no idea how that is a prophecy or helps identify Jesus. What has fear goto do with it ? Jeremiah made a lot of statements, many are followed by Xians. I fail to see what fear has to do with anything, particularly identifying jesus using the law.

    Personally I dont fear any of the prophets, they are dead and gone...

  • mP
    mP

    LARS:

    As has also been prophesied, some will understand and some will be confused. They will look but cannot see. They will listen but cannot hear. So the Bible will make sense to those who it was primarily written for, the 'elect' and for outsiders it will remain a "carrot." Some of us are completely fulfilled by scripture which is like a bright light to us now, and others see darkness; the harder they look, the darker it gets.

    MP:

    But you cant show me a single law of Moses that points exactly at jesus...Id be very interested in scriptures and quotes.

  • mP
    mP

    LARS:

    In the meantime, the elect will know what to expect and will be seeing the fulfillment of Law and Prophecy.

    MP:

    The scriptures always mention "the law" aka Moses writings. The prophets are not Moses and came much later. Your favourites like Daniel are not part of the law. There is a difference. The law is not the same as the OT. Ask any scholar, or Rabbi and they will vehemently confirm this.

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