Posts by myelaine

63

We Pass the Bread and the Wine Just like in the Bible! But, why is forbidden to eat?

by lusitano o tuga in

see what bridget azaz did!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzbe5yo7uq4.

myelaine

Excellent artical about the timeline of early apostacy; who, what, when, why and how.

https://hoshanarabbah.org/blog/2017/04/06/from-a-d-70-to-a-d-135/

63

We Pass the Bread and the Wine Just like in the Bible! But, why is forbidden to eat?

by lusitano o tuga in

see what bridget azaz did!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzbe5yo7uq4.

In a previous post of yours you pasted a writeup about the history of the early church and that customs were attested to by early church fathers. My argument is that it was the wall of seperation between jew and gentile (which paul fought to break down) that occured during that time in the infant church when more people of the gentiles were coming into the church (in leadership roles) that the apostasy happened. So I would suspect that these early church fathers would support the "new way". Remember when moses went up the mountain it only took the israelites about forty days to lose the plot.

the early church met as often as they could but the scripture says that the church went to synagogue to "hear moses"...that is done on the sabbath which means they likely still kept the 7th day sabbath as the sanctified day of rest in addition to meeting other days.

I don't know that breaking bread automatically means passing the elements and not a fellowship meal as paul states that some would show up and eat and drink everything so that others would go away hungry.

30

The Pagan Origins of the Memorial Observed by Jehovah’s Witnesses

by David_Jay in

“we don’t celebrate holidays because god doesn’t approve of any celebration that is rooted in pagan customs and manmade traditions.” (see here for a similar jw response.).

if you were once an ex-jw like me, you have probably said something like this out in field service to someone who asked the question: why don’t you people celebrate holidays?

as the witnesses' official website states in an faq about not celebrating easter:.

myelaine

TheWonderofYou...

I don't think any parts of the bible were incorporated into the muslim religion, per se. The koran mentions a few biblical characters but not in a "religious" context...more like name dropping because the whole thrust of the biblical message of redemption was lost on mohammad. The koran is all about OBEY, OBEY, OBEY...or else you're toast!!

30

The Pagan Origins of the Memorial Observed by Jehovah’s Witnesses

by David_Jay in

“we don’t celebrate holidays because god doesn’t approve of any celebration that is rooted in pagan customs and manmade traditions.” (see here for a similar jw response.).

if you were once an ex-jw like me, you have probably said something like this out in field service to someone who asked the question: why don’t you people celebrate holidays?

as the witnesses' official website states in an faq about not celebrating easter:.

myelaine

Wow David_Jay...

you've been over quite a twisted path. It seems you're in a better place in your life now. I'm happy for you.

63

We Pass the Bread and the Wine Just like in the Bible! But, why is forbidden to eat?

by lusitano o tuga in

see what bridget azaz did!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzbe5yo7uq4.

myelaine

Thank you for being candid, waton. It's possible that neither of our respective beliefs are tangental to the discussion anyway.

63

We Pass the Bread and the Wine Just like in the Bible! But, why is forbidden to eat?

by lusitano o tuga in

see what bridget azaz did!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzbe5yo7uq4.

myelaine

I'm not sure what you mean? A passing reference to Passover in the account in Acts? If so, ALL of God's feasts were important and Passover/Feast of Unleavened Bread fell together in the calendar year so I don't know if the Passover would have been given prominence over the other. They were remembered together in the eyes of the nation. The disciples were jewish and had a jewish world view not a contemporary "christian" worldview (as modern christians consider Easter and Christmas huge in their world view) things have changed in the church a whack in the last 1900 years.

❤️

63

We Pass the Bread and the Wine Just like in the Bible! But, why is forbidden to eat?

by lusitano o tuga in

see what bridget azaz did!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzbe5yo7uq4.

myelaine

It is true that mainstream christianity has taken the pagan holiday "Easter" mentioned in Acts and commandeered it for the celebration of the resurrection of Christ BUT there is no biblical mandate to do so. I am somewhat conflicted about the Easter celebration, myself. The resurrection of the Lord is the most awesome thing to happen!!! but scripture AND Jesus teaches that the sacrifice is the event to be remembered. I give and accept grace where this is the concern :)

xo

63

We Pass the Bread and the Wine Just like in the Bible! But, why is forbidden to eat?

by lusitano o tuga in

see what bridget azaz did!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzbe5yo7uq4.

myelaine

dear waton...

I'm so glad you mentioned that!

It turns out that in their effort to discard any whiff of mainstream christianity, the WTBTS fudged their personal "translation" from the KJ bible. Reading from the NWT we read the account in Acts 12:3 it says that Herod imprisoned Peter during the Days of Unleavened Bread (which falls AFTER Passover) and then in Acts 12:4 it says that Herod planned on releasing Peter to the people AFTER Passover. The KJ bible says Easter...not Passover. The reason for this is because it wasn't Passover that was celebrated, it was the pagan festival of Easter/Eastre godess of dawn (not to be confused with what mainstream christianity celebrates now as Easter. ie: the resurrection of Christ)

So, Peter did not come upon the disciples celebrating Passover, because it was over...not because it wasn't celebrated any longer.

love michelle

63

We Pass the Bread and the Wine Just like in the Bible! But, why is forbidden to eat?

by lusitano o tuga in

see what bridget azaz did!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzbe5yo7uq4.

myelaine

What I find most hypocritical of the WTBTS is their insistence that the apostasy began shortly after the death of the last apostle and yet they cling to some apostate teachings.

There is evidence in the bible that the 1st century christians kept the torah just as Jesus and the apostles did including the 7th day sabbath. (If that had changed at all then there would have been some mention of it at the Jerusalem council but, there wasn't. There is biblical evidence that the Saturday Sabbath was kept.) In fact it was after the death of the apostles that the proto-Catholic Church decreed that the Sabbath instituted and sanctified by God would be, by their authority, changed to Sunday. Christians maintained the Saturday Sabbath until it became "uncomfortable" to be seen as showing any kind of Jewishness because of the persecution of the Jews by Rome. "At that time, Sunday was the rest day of the Roman Empire, whose religion was Mithraism, a form of sun worship. Since Sabbath observance is visible to others, some christians in the early second century sought to distance themselves from Judaism by observing a different day, thus 'blending in' to the society around them."

Constantine, who was a sun worshipper, legalized christianity and made the first Sunday-keeping law in AD 313. He enforced this law in the now "christian" empire in AD 321. "On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in the cities rest, and let all workshops be closed." (Codex Justinianus 3.12.3, trans. Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, 5th ed. (New York 1905), 3:380, note 1.) the Sunday law was confirmed at the Council of Laodicea in AD 364.

In their OWN Passover dogma as well as their continued adherence to apostate Sunday worship they certainly DO make the word of God void by their traditions of men. Boo...

63

We Pass the Bread and the Wine Just like in the Bible! But, why is forbidden to eat?

by lusitano o tuga in

see what bridget azaz did!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzbe5yo7uq4.

myelaine

This is the order of the Passover Seder and the story behind why the biblical text shows Jesus may not have partaken of ONE of the cups of wine. His disciples wouldn't have partaken of THAT cup either. Jesus and His disciples would have observed the Passover according to the custom of that day which included a "Cup" that was not mentioned in the OT texts but is spoken of in ancient Jewish texts that instruct that a cup that was to be drunk from 4 times. (Pesahim 10:1..."On the eve of Passover from close to the time of the afternoon offering, on one must eat until nightfall. Even the poorest person in Israel must not eat on the night of Passover unless he reclines. And they must give him no fewer than four cups of wine, even if he receives relief from the charity plate"

The Last Supper

At evening Jesus gathered with His disciples and reclined at the table. He said, "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer." Luke 22:15.

The Seder began as usual with the blessing of the First Cup of Sanctification. This cup has nothing to do with earthly or heavenly hopes.

everything appeared to be in order as they moved on to the blessing of the Second Cup of Remembrance and recounted the Passover Story referred to as the Haggadah. This cup has nothing to do with earthly or heavenly hopes.

After the meal

Jesus continues to the blessing for the Unleavened Bread, but as He breaks it and passes it to His disciples and says,"This bread is My body which is given for you, do this in remembrance of Me." Luke 22:19. This bread has nothing to do with earthly or heavenly hopes.

They may have reminisced of His earlier mysterious teachings as they heard these words before. "I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is My flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." John 6:51.

Then He lifted the Third Cup of Redemption, and after the blessing He said, "This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." Matthew 26:28.

Everyone who celebrated the Passover took the Third Cup of Redemption. However, Jesus took this opportunity to institute a new covenant; a covenant of grace and salvation because the breaking of the old covenant of Redemption by Israel would incur a "Cup of Wrath and Judgement." (Jeremiah 31:32-34). This cup has nothing to do with earthly or heavenly hopes.

The Fourth Cup of Praise was the cup they were not to drink until Elijah returned under the usual circumstances but Jesus had already told them John the Baptist was the Elijah to come and the text doesn't say that the disciples partook of this cup or not. It is also unclear whether Jesus partook of it or not either as His statement, "I will not drink again from this fruit of the vine until the day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God." (Mark 14:25) could have been made after drinking from the fourth cup. Either way it has nothing to do with earthly or heavenly hopes.

The disciples were not yet able to understand everything Jesus was saying to them (John 16:17) but instead of questioning they proceeded on to the regular order of Seder and began singing the Psalms of Praise.

The Passover Meal is eaten in the evening and is directly followed by the Feast of Unleavened Bread.