Posts by myelaine

35

When did the Great Crowd start forming?

by Vanderhoven7 in

i realize that rutherford received a flash of light regarding the identity of the gc in the year 1935, but that does not tell us when the crowd began to form.

what would be the earliest date?

any ideas or quotes from wt literature?

myelaine

This study has done two things for ME: corrected an error in my understanding and confirmed a deeply held conviction.

I have NEVER held belief in the "rapture theory" in the sense expoused the mainstream church. I just couldn't reconcile the God I know with the teaching that at some point all believers will be whisked out of the way...chaos ensues and the "left behind" are on their own. It just didn't jive and to be frank...I'm sorry but, I DID think that people who held those views were unloving...in the same "camp" as those who where so vividly described by a fellow poster as thinking that those who didn't believe at the coming of the Lord were "on a greased pole to hell"...this study has shown me that indeed, there are people taken out of the GT because of their "conversion" ...praise God!

This study has shown me that the God I know DOESN'T leave the world to unbelief and wrath. The elect jews are those who are protected and COMMISSIONED during this great tribulation to bring both jew and gentile from all nations, tribes, languages and tongues to reconciliation with God..the GC...brought OUT OF the GT. AMEN.

If this study of scripture relevant to: the souls under the alter, the great crowd and the elect jews during the GT has drawn false conclusions I welcome correction.

love michelle

35

When did the Great Crowd start forming?

by Vanderhoven7 in

i realize that rutherford received a flash of light regarding the identity of the gc in the year 1935, but that does not tell us when the crowd began to form.

what would be the earliest date?

any ideas or quotes from wt literature?

myelaine

"Rev. 6:9-11 these are souls under the alter who were slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.

The GC have washed their robes but there is no indication that they were slain for their testimony...the language and scene is more evocative of a last minute "revival". (Yay!!)"

Further evidence to the claim that the souls under the alter are not the same "group" as those in the GC is found in 1 corinthians 16:51-54. The souls under the alter are numbered as those who DIED for the word of God (pre-tribulation)

At the last trumpet there will be a group who will be "translated" without dying.(taken out of the great tribulation)...THEN the angels will gather together the elect [jews] from the four corners of the earth (matthew 24:29-31, rev. 7:1,3...)
love michelle

40

Last Days? Are you serious ....?

by Aleph in

believing we live in the last days?.

myelaine

http://m.livescience.com/47737-stephen-hawking-higgs-boson-universe-doomsday.html

35

When did the Great Crowd start forming?

by Vanderhoven7 in

i realize that rutherford received a flash of light regarding the identity of the gc in the year 1935, but that does not tell us when the crowd began to form.

what would be the earliest date?

any ideas or quotes from wt literature?

myelaine

Crazyguy, the group "described" in rev 5:8 are the 4 living creatures, and the 24 elders. The words of 5:9-10 are the prayers of the saints...and THEY sang...These saints have been "redeemed OUT OF every tribe and tongue and people and nation"...(all jews) rev. 14:1,3,4 (redeemed from AMONG men) they are essentially selected from all parts of the earth rev 7:1,3-4...8

the GC are a multitude OF all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues.

35

When did the Great Crowd start forming?

by Vanderhoven7 in

i realize that rutherford received a flash of light regarding the identity of the gc in the year 1935, but that does not tell us when the crowd began to form.

what would be the earliest date?

any ideas or quotes from wt literature?

myelaine

dear Crazyguy...

Rev. 6:9-11 these are souls under the alter who were slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.

The GC have washed their robes but there is no indication that they were slain for their testimony...the language and scene is more evocative of a last minute "revival". (Yay!!)

The 144,000 can be separate from the GC because other scriptures indicate that they follow the Lamb where ever He goes and at the time of the GT the Lamb is standing in israel an actual place on earth. zech. 14:1-5, rev. 14:1, luke 21:20-22)...the GC are taken out of the GT which happens on earth.

35

When did the Great Crowd start forming?

by Vanderhoven7 in

i realize that rutherford received a flash of light regarding the identity of the gc in the year 1935, but that does not tell us when the crowd began to form.

what would be the earliest date?

any ideas or quotes from wt literature?

myelaine

dear Vander...

You now know that WT has amended that teaching and so dishonest baiting isn't much of a strategy.

why not be frank? The WT taught...blah, blah, blah, and then the changed that teaching as recorded in such and such magazine. Now, because aspects of the new teaching are more in alignment with this particular scripture can "you" answer why or how a bible-based organization could be so wrong in the first place if they believe all scripture is profitable....etc?

Isn't honesty the best policy? like, what if the witness whips out the WT questions from readers that prologos cited?...then what are you going to say?

12

EITHER or NEITHER or BOTH? FORGIVENESS vs ATONEMENT

by Terry in

on (new testament scholar) bart ehrman's blog, the topic of luke's view of the purpose of jesus'.

death has been discussed.. in that discussion, ehrman points out how luke did not set forth the idea of atonement, rather luke set forth the idea of forgiveness.. on the other hand, mark and paul teach atonement.. these two points of view have been "mashed together" into a package deal, apparently, throughout history by theologians.. _________________________.

someone pays a debt owed by another.

myelaine

dear Terry...

If "we" = humanity then 1, 2 and 3 are not true of everyone and neither is the desire to be forgiven a trespass. The idea that "humanity" has a yearning to improve is false. improvement is relative to individual standards not at all about a set of "given standards" to be attained by humanity. "we" is corporate identity which simply doesn't reflect the reality of "humanity" as we know it.

God deals with individuals and so He levelled the playing field in Christ.

God sees us...doing things to appease Him isn't going to get us anywhere. Psalm 51:16-17

love michelle

35

When did the Great Crowd start forming?

by Vanderhoven7 in

i realize that rutherford received a flash of light regarding the identity of the gc in the year 1935, but that does not tell us when the crowd began to form.

what would be the earliest date?

any ideas or quotes from wt literature?

myelaine

I can't figure out why a WT false date would matter or where you're going with this Vander...the whole notion that the great crowd has started "gathering" is untenable...scripture says they came OUT OF the great tribulation...the great tribulation hasn't begun...rev. 7:14.

daniel 12:1 states the GT is going to be the worst possible time for the JEWS and their only relief IS deliverance through God's salvation.

love michelle

46

Jehovahs Witnesses and the Name , HOW Important. ?

by smiddy in

jehovah`s witnesses place great emphasis on the importance of god`s name as jehovah .so much so that they are often accused by christendom`s religions as substituting jehovah for christ.. the old testament ( hebrew scriptures identify god as the tetragrammaton four hebrew consanants yhwh and not jhvh.

as mistakenly believed by a 13th century spanish monk .. modern scholars including the j.w.`s agree that the more accurate pronunciation of gods name would be more nearer to yahweh than the name jehovah .. so why do j.w.`s insist on the name ?

jehovah ?

myelaine

dear TheWonderofYou...

thank you for your effort in shedding more light on the name of God.

We do have to have patience with people who don't know the truth but I have to question how patience and "letting them be" can be balanced with the knowledge that the JW's aren't actually doing anything in the name of Jesus...the toto of their doctrines are in fact hindering knowledge of Jesus. Jesus, His forgiveness, mercy and ALL that He gives to man is taught to a JW as benefitting ONLY the elect 144,000. That teaching prohibits them from preaching the gospel of Christ. A study learns about the gospel...kinda...with the proviso that it isn't for them per se. Their dogma negates anything they might teach about the gospel. They are neither with Jesus or for Him, so to speak.

love michelle

46

Jehovahs Witnesses and the Name , HOW Important. ?

by smiddy in

jehovah`s witnesses place great emphasis on the importance of god`s name as jehovah .so much so that they are often accused by christendom`s religions as substituting jehovah for christ.. the old testament ( hebrew scriptures identify god as the tetragrammaton four hebrew consanants yhwh and not jhvh.

as mistakenly believed by a 13th century spanish monk .. modern scholars including the j.w.`s agree that the more accurate pronunciation of gods name would be more nearer to yahweh than the name jehovah .. so why do j.w.`s insist on the name ?

jehovah ?

myelaine

dear Finkelstein...

you said, "Aren't they really Christan Witnesses since they are supposedly preaching the Gospel of Christ."...

are they?...2 timothy 1:8-10

love michelle