Thanks for clarifying that CoCo.
Psalm 119:160. God's precepts are eternal, with Him.
xo
myelaine
JoinedPosts by myelaine
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51
Why go back to the Old Testament?
by Lost in the fog inwhy do jws insist on still quoting from the old testament to back up some of their wacky ideas?
such as on blood, beards, abortion, tattoos, etc.
surely if the mosaic law code was nailed to the torture stake all of its parts were cancelled.
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51
Why go back to the Old Testament?
by Lost in the fog inwhy do jws insist on still quoting from the old testament to back up some of their wacky ideas?
such as on blood, beards, abortion, tattoos, etc.
surely if the mosaic law code was nailed to the torture stake all of its parts were cancelled.
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myelaine
dear Onager...
Your response has very little to do with my post you quoted.
I said I'm not into inequality and I'm into living harmoniously with my fellow man.
Anyone CAN live like that. What does "evidence" have to do with it?
Sex organs? Nope, I didn't mention anything about that.
Controlling people? Hmmm...if a person wants something it doesn't take "controlling him" to get that person onboard for it. Like I said, the people in God's kingdom want to be there. No one has been manipulated into being there.
You said, "I'm REALLY not into controlling people in ANY way by dangling a carrot of lies in front of their desperate faces"...
I'm REALLY not into that either. JW's have been controlled by being told that they HAVE to work tirelessly for the possibility of entrance to the kingdom and one false move and they could be locked out forever. That kind of mindset produces desperation. Trusting God and the gospel of salvation produces patient endurance.
xo
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51
Why go back to the Old Testament?
by Lost in the fog inwhy do jws insist on still quoting from the old testament to back up some of their wacky ideas?
such as on blood, beards, abortion, tattoos, etc.
surely if the mosaic law code was nailed to the torture stake all of its parts were cancelled.
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myelaine
I don't know how a contemporary Jewish theocracy would run the show, (justice and mercy was always in the hands of the judiciary) but the kingdom of God under Christ's rule is in the future and by all scriptural indication, there wont be any "infidels" to stone. Everyone will be harmonious because that's the way everyone WANTS it to be. When you're just sick of the inequity of this kingdom, the reward is the kingdom of God. Of course, if you're not REALLY into that sort of thing, it shows in that you'll continue to strive against the only One who can deliver that reward.
xo
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51
Why go back to the Old Testament?
by Lost in the fog inwhy do jws insist on still quoting from the old testament to back up some of their wacky ideas?
such as on blood, beards, abortion, tattoos, etc.
surely if the mosaic law code was nailed to the torture stake all of its parts were cancelled.
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myelaine
dear EverApostate...
Think about Jesus' audience. They were Jewish people living in a backwater Roman conquered area. They were likely poor themselves and didn't have slaves. Because of the inequality between Romans and Jews, some may have been slaves. What would be the point of condemning slavery to them?
His message was to live peacefully and condemning slavery to poor people who may have been slaves of the Romans would have the effect of stoking resentment at the very least. This was antithetical to His cause.
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Why go back to the Old Testament?
by Lost in the fog inwhy do jws insist on still quoting from the old testament to back up some of their wacky ideas?
such as on blood, beards, abortion, tattoos, etc.
surely if the mosaic law code was nailed to the torture stake all of its parts were cancelled.
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myelaine
dear EverApostate...
Scripture doesn't say the law was nailed to the cross. It says, "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross;"... as you have said, the law of God is everlasting.If a person does what God says to do, he will be blessed. If a person doesn't do what God says to do, he will be cursed. If a person doesn't do what God says don't do, he will be blessed. If a person does do what God says don't do, he will be cursed.
Disobedience toward God is a sin. Sin against God is worthy of death, that is the gist of the law. When Jesus hung on the cross, He became sin, 2 Corinthians 5:21. In so doing, He blotted out that which was against us, our sin debt. He didn't blot out the law, contrary to what "Lost in the fog" said.
Without the written law, we wouldn't really know what sinning against man is (sinning against someone would be relative to how we feel)...or at least the extent of our sinful ways. When we sin against man, we are ALSO sinning against God in our disobedience. As the apostle Paul said in Romans 7:7.
If there is no law, the penalty of death for breaking it (sin) is moot. The christian message of reconciliation to God by remission of sins through Jesus is completely lost.
❤
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Is Jesus and Michael the Archangel the same person?
by JW Answers inthe jehovah's witnesses believe that jesus christ and michael the archangel are the same person, and blatently ignore numerous verses and passages within scripture which explain that both jesus and michael are two separate persons.this video study (linked below) goes into the intricacies of hebrews chapters 1+2 explaining how the lord jesus and michael are different persons, and looks at the qualities, authority and power at which the lord jesus holds and how it is separate from angels including michael the archangel..
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myelaine
dear JW Answers...
My point is that, according TO the bible and hebrew scholars...interpreting hebrew words, michael ceases defending israel in his historic capacity. There is no scripture that states that Jesus will EVER stop faithfully defending israel in His capacity. They are not the same being. Jesus is God the Son and michael is an angel...a fellow servant and messenger. To defend that assertion to you would be redundant. 🙂
xo
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Is Jesus and Michael the Archangel the same person?
by JW Answers inthe jehovah's witnesses believe that jesus christ and michael the archangel are the same person, and blatently ignore numerous verses and passages within scripture which explain that both jesus and michael are two separate persons.this video study (linked below) goes into the intricacies of hebrews chapters 1+2 explaining how the lord jesus and michael are different persons, and looks at the qualities, authority and power at which the lord jesus holds and how it is separate from angels including michael the archangel..
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myelaine
Does Jesus ever cease defending israel?
"Daniel was told that at the beginning of the Great Tribulation Michael would "stand up." But what is meant by "stand up"? Major prophetic portions of Scripture like 2 Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 12 and 13 are greatly impacted by the answer given. The overwhelming majority of commentators suggest that "stand up" means that Michael, in "standing up," will come to Israel's defense. It is usually understood that the one against whom this defense will be made is the Antichrist, who oppresses Israel during the Great Tribulation.
A highly respected prophetic scholar commenting on Daniel 12:1 states the view this way: "In their distress, the children of Israel are especially aided by Michael, the archangel (Jude 9). As the head of the holy angels, Michael is given the special responsibility of protecting the children of Israel" (See Daniel: The Key to Prophetic Revelation by John Walvoord, p. 283).
According to this widely held view then, to "stand up" means that Michael will come to Israel's defense while she is experiencing the Great Tribulation.
With respect for those who champion this position, I nonetheless strongly suggest that the text is teaching precisely the exact opposite. Michael does not "stand up" to help Daniel's people during the Great Tribulation. He "stands still" or "desists" from his normal role as defender of Israel, thus permitting the Great Tribulation to occur.
In other words, the Great Tribulation is not the cause for Michael to come to Israel's defense. Rather, it is because he desists from defending her that the Great Tribulation occurs.
The expression "stand up" is the translation of the Hebrew word amad. Amad simply means to "stand." It does not mean to "stand up," and it does not mean to "stand still." It simply means to "stand." If a man seated and inactive were said to amad, he would "stand up." However, if a man already standing and active were said to amad, he would "stand still," or desist, in his activity.
Daniel had just been told by the angel who was sharing this prophetic vision with him that Michael was actively involved in the defense of Daniel's people. The angel said to Daniel, "But the prince [a fallen angel] of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me" (Dan. 10:13). Michael was actively engaged in helping Israel. And once again the angel said to Daniel, "But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince" (Dan. 10:21).
What does the word "holdeth" (Hebrew, chazaq) mean? According to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, holdeth can mean "to bind" or "restrain." That means, in context, that the archangel Michael already had a hindering or restraining ministry against the forces of Satan on Israel's behalf. So when it is said that Michael will "stand," it means he will "stand still," "desist," or "cease" from defending Israel.
This, of course, would be in dramatic contrast to Michael's normal activity described in the words "which standeth [a present, continuous action] for the children of thy people" (Dan. 12:1). In other words, just prior to the Great Tribulation the archangel Michael will cease or desist from what was his historically ongoing responsibility of defending Israel.
It would make little sense to tell Daniel that Michael was defending his people in Chapter 12 when he had already clearly told him that fact, not once but twice, in Daniel, Chapter 10.
Rashi, one of Israel's greatest teachers, and a man whose Hebrew scholarship is unexcelled, understood "stand up" (Hebrew, amad) to literally mean "stand still" in Daniel 12:1. He wrote: "The Holy One [a Jewish designation for God], Blessed be He, said to Michael, 'You are silent? You do not defend my children.'"
Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible says that amad means "to stand, stand still or fast." And Strong's Concordance cites one of the root meanings of amad as "cease," and one of its definitions as "stand still." A biblical illustration of amad meaning "to be still or desist is, "they...stood still [desisted], and answered no more" (Job 32:16).
Daniel wrote of Michael, the restrainer, this way: "And at that time shall Michael stand up [literally, stand still or desist from helping Israel], the great prince which standeth [whose normal and continued ministry had been to help Israel]" (Dan. 12:1); and Paul wrote of the restrainer this way: "He who now letteth [restrains] will let [continue his normal restraining ministry], until he be taken out of the way [ceases his normal ministry of restraining]" (2 Th. 2:7). The parallel between the two is conspicuous.
The apostle Paul clearly had Daniel 12:1 in mind when he wrote 2 Thessalonians 2:7. The clear and compelling allusion to Daniel 12 would indicate that the restrainer is the archangel Michael.1
Daniel was told, "And at that time [the midpoint of Daniel's seventieth week] shall Michael stand up [cease or desist from defending Israel], the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [whose normal activity had been to defend them]: and [as a direct result of Michael's lack of restraint] there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time" (Dan. 12:1).
The "time of trouble" to which the angel refers is elsewhere called "the time of Jacob's [Israel's] troubles."
(When satan is "thrown to earth" and then identified...he is a man, which means his immediate sphere of influence is greatly diminished. Isaiah 14:12-21.
If satan can be man, michael can be man too. That's why michael is said to cease defending israel. His immediate sphere of influence is greatly diminished too.)
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Irrationality of in important teaching
by Ireneus injesus used illustration to make things clear.
hence imagine yourself in a situation which reminds you of an important teaching:.
you are in a super market, and you are told: “someone has already paid for whatever you have purchased”[as churches teach through their ransom sacrifice].
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myelaine
dear venus...
The only judge in the garden was God and satan didn't accuse a "fellow israelite".
By the time Jesus walked the earth, the pharisees had taken over the role of judges for israel. The entire time they were investigating Jesus they were looking for a reason to accuse Him. They found Him to be completely torah obedient. That's why they falsely accused Him of sedition so that He would be a roman problem. Rome found Him innocent of sedition.
According to Israelite law, each of the pharisees would be guilty of making a false accusation and would have to be punished. Jesus said they were of their father, the devil. The first accuser and father of the lie. Israelite law isn't going to motivate corrupt people to step up and take their punishment.
xo
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Child sacrifice and Jesus' sacrifice
by Whynot injeremiah 7:31 says, "they have built the high places of toʹpheth, which is in the valley of the son of hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that i had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’".
according to this scripture it's unthinkable for jehovah to be pleased with child sacrifices.
but yet he sent his son to be killed as a sacrifice for all?.
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myelaine
dear Whynot...
I hope you use the link I posted in your studies. It contains scripture that points to the elements of original sin in the OT and rabbinic thought.
☺
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Child sacrifice and Jesus' sacrifice
by Whynot injeremiah 7:31 says, "they have built the high places of toʹpheth, which is in the valley of the son of hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that i had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’".
according to this scripture it's unthinkable for jehovah to be pleased with child sacrifices.
but yet he sent his son to be killed as a sacrifice for all?.
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myelaine
dear Whynot...
The apostle Paul did produce the "bones" for the doctrine of original sin in his letters and the first disciples of Jesus recognized that there was an Adamic stain of sin that could only be covered by a personal redeemer.
It isn't fair to say that the doctrine originated with Augustine though he is recognized as the first example we have of someone who explored and wrote about it, to flesh it out. Paul certainly had a grasp of the doctrine and may have elaborated on it without putting it in his letters.