Posts by Midget-Sasquatch

65

The doctrine of the Tri-Part man.

by LittleToe in

recently there have been discussions about the immortal soul, v's the wts beliefs, so i thought i'd present a little heard of (in jw circles) doctrine of the soul that seeks to explain some passages of scripture that are usually avoided.. first of all, leo posted some fascination information, which gives some background on the bible's general teaching on the soul:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/80742/1319806/post.ashx#1319806.

the doctrine itself surrounds two texts in particular, which i quote from the nwt:.

Midget-Sasquatch

It does beg an important theological question, that of does the Soul / Spirit combination survive death, or just the Spirit. The answer to this has an impact on the theory of where our memories reside, and what continues...

Excellent question there LT.Do the experiences of christian mystics have any bearing here? They often describe a merging with the Divine and a loss of self identity.....Just the Spirit continues then perhaps? But then there's the OBEs which if taken at face value would definitely argue for both Soul/Spirit. Either way, I agree that this discussion is very helpful to freeing up the mind from the WT brainfreeze. (But I still tend to think the mind is physically based ).

65

The doctrine of the Tri-Part man.

by LittleToe in

recently there have been discussions about the immortal soul, v's the wts beliefs, so i thought i'd present a little heard of (in jw circles) doctrine of the soul that seeks to explain some passages of scripture that are usually avoided.. first of all, leo posted some fascination information, which gives some background on the bible's general teaching on the soul:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/80742/1319806/post.ashx#1319806.

the doctrine itself surrounds two texts in particular, which i quote from the nwt:.

Midget-Sasquatch

I hope this isn't too off topic but this called to my mind the 3 categories of people according to gnostics. You had the hyletics (who realized only the material, physical, earthly reality), the psychics (who realized there was more to reality than the physical, they broadened their scope to the mind but didn't acquire true gnosis), and finally the pneumatics (achieved gnosis and so were sure to liberate their divine sparks within themselves).

Can we also call upon the findings from neuroscience (which shows the physical basis of mind), and modify that model to just two components? Say --- meld the mind and body as one, and the spirit as another?

25

Raphael and Jesus

by peacefulpete in

randel helms in gospel fictions has surmised that the story of jesus' appearance to mary at the tomb is dependent upon the raphael story in tobit.

at tobit 5-12 the character encounters the archangel raphael yet does not recognize him as such.

when he identifies himself, the human characters (tobias and wife) fall upon their faces.

Midget-Sasquatch

Narkissos

Thank you very much for those compelling scriptural references. I've always been intrigued by Paul's interesting fusion of pagan and Jewish beliefs.

Leo

Thanks for that link. For me, it was a stimulating mixture of old and new information. It was my first exposure to portions of the apocryphal Acts of John. I love gnostic themes. That from a professed agnostic.

251

Is Jesus Christ and Michael the ArchAngel one and the same person?

by booker-t in

i must admit that as a jw i never really swallowed this belief maybe because i was so young when i was really a staunch jw.

i would have born-again christians tell me that it was impossible for jesus and michael to be the same person and that jw's invented this doctrine.

fast forward to 2004 while i was reading a book on jesus i noticed that some of the early church fathers thought michael was jesus christ i almost fell out of my chair.

Midget-Sasquatch

Heathen

I'll take your remark as a complement, since thats what I was blatantly trying to do. Hmmm, it was very easy for me though....what if I always sound like that?!

I am saying that the bible has been tampered with for thousands of years and that the part about enoch sounds all too much like myth

If you believe the Bible's been tampered with, wouldn't you want to cross-reference it with as many independent sources as you can get a hold of? If nothing is accurate enough though, then how do you personally go about deciding on what you can confidently believe or not? I'm not arguing, but am genuinely curious, since I don't take much stock in many of the OT accounts either. Alot of myth there I'd say.

251

Is Jesus Christ and Michael the ArchAngel one and the same person?

by booker-t in

i must admit that as a jw i never really swallowed this belief maybe because i was so young when i was really a staunch jw.

i would have born-again christians tell me that it was impossible for jesus and michael to be the same person and that jw's invented this doctrine.

fast forward to 2004 while i was reading a book on jesus i noticed that some of the early church fathers thought michael was jesus christ i almost fell out of my chair.

Midget-Sasquatch

I'm usually the one who throws threads of topic and so I should as a courtesy hesitate to post. I think I can step in now with minimal impact.

[WT magazine writer mode: ON]

If you walked into a conversation where alot of the concepts or issues being talked about by that group of people, presupposed or assumed alot of background information, could you reasonably expect to grasp it all clearly just by going on what was said then and there? Wouldn't you gain a deeper understanding, or at least a more accurate clarification of some of the material bandied about, if you also looked up the relevant information in other pertinent sources? So too with some personages, concepts, or beliefs referenced in the Bible. We can use cultural, religious and literary works contemporaneous to the bible writer to help us elucidate the points being made by them.

[Mode: OFF]

Parody aside....The above approach is sound. Thats why I appreciate all the research and effort that Leo puts into her posts. I feel I'm better off contemplating extra-canonical works, than trying to imbue meaning into scant material in the Bible with nothing else.

Now to the topic

The huge body of evidence that exists in extra-canonical Jewish works clearly shows a belief in several archangels, Michael being a very strong one but not the only one. That in itself calls into question the link the WT tries to make between Jesus and Micheal. Many other points made by other posters here just tip the scales further.

25

Raphael and Jesus

by peacefulpete in

randel helms in gospel fictions has surmised that the story of jesus' appearance to mary at the tomb is dependent upon the raphael story in tobit.

at tobit 5-12 the character encounters the archangel raphael yet does not recognize him as such.

when he identifies himself, the human characters (tobias and wife) fall upon their faces.

Midget-Sasquatch

Hooberus

Yah, I'd have to say it'll be hard to argue for a docetic view using just the canon gospels. That's to be expected, since the orthodoxy that ended up controlling the Church, decided which gospels to include or exclude in the canon. The Orthodox stance was/is a corporeal ressurection -----> ergo the chosen 4 gospels.

But what do you make of Paul's explanation of resurrection at 1 Cor 15:35-49? Doesn't that very early understanding about the ressurection argue against the raising up of a corporeal body? Doesn't it include Jesus' resurrection?

25

Raphael and Jesus

by peacefulpete in

randel helms in gospel fictions has surmised that the story of jesus' appearance to mary at the tomb is dependent upon the raphael story in tobit.

at tobit 5-12 the character encounters the archangel raphael yet does not recognize him as such.

when he identifies himself, the human characters (tobias and wife) fall upon their faces.

Midget-Sasquatch

I've always wondered why it was so terrible for Mary to hug Jesus. I've never read a satisfying answer. And I admit, I've always put off doing extensive research into it.

Is there any merit to the idea that this episode is an occasion seized by the writer to obfuscate any intimate relationship that may actually have existed between Jesus and Mary Magdalene?

18

Jesus Married?

by sandy in

.

i am curious: any here believe that jesus could have been married to mary magdalene?

.

Midget-Sasquatch

As peacefulpete noted some gnostic sects believed it. The Gospel of Philip calls Mary Magdalene the companion of the Lord. That term in those days could easily mean consort. As well in that same gnostic book, it mentions that Jesus loved Mary more than the others and kissed her often "on the mouth".

One infamous gnostic was Simon Magus. He called himself the Great Power and he hooked up with some prostitute and convinced people that she was Sophia (the Gnostic Wisdom). Some people believed this was a parallel to the relationship bewteen Jesus and Mary.

62

Wish Me Luck

by Englishman in

jw
friends

today i visit the hospital for my pre-operative check up.

if i'm found to be fit and healthy once more, then i will be admitted back into wsm general in 2 weeks time to get reconnected.. which will mean goodbye to the bag and hello to my a**!

just in time for christmas.. it's something to with be able to withstand anasthesea.

Midget-Sasquatch

I'm rooting for you Eman. Here's to a happy ending ;)

P.S. Ya, ya, I still have my day job.

28

what do you read at Matthew 27:52,53 ?

by evergreen in

reading my bible daily ,i am enjoying what i read, especially not having to constantly refer to wt literature all the time .but simply reading what is in black and white in the holy scriptures.. i came across this portion of scripture at matthew 27:52,53 .

and the memorial tombs were opened and many bodies of the holy ones that had fallen asleep were raised up,(and persons,coming out from among the memorial tombs after his being raised up,entered into the holy city,)and they became visible to many people.. two things that come to my mind from this portion of scripture.

1/ dead people are raised ie holy ones.. the society says that these were bodies that became visible that fell out from the tombs because of the earthquake ??.

Midget-Sasquatch

I've enjoyed all the comments so far but actually decided to look up the passage in Ezekiel mentioned by Willpower.

Ezekiel 37:12-13 in part reads: "....Here I am opening your graves, and I will bring you up out of your graves, O my people, and bring you in upon the soil of Isreal. And you will have to know that I am the Lord when I open your graves and when I bring you up out of them..."

Matthew has his sequence of events in verse 52-53 in step with these verses. Having the Centurion in verse 54 declare that Jesus must have been the Son of God also meshes well with the ending in Ezekiel of having to know "that I am the Lord."

Matthew regularly uses OT passages and incorporates them as actual historical events in the life of Jesus, as proof that Jesus fulfilled them, and so must have been the foretold Messiah. Some of the stuff he wrote about, the other Gospels don't even mention (detour into Egypt, or Herod's order to slaughter the baby males). I don't think its a stretch to chalk this up as one more example of Matthew co-opting some Jewish beliefs about things to happen upon Messiah's coming, and including it to bolster his case for Jesus.