Posts by Hondo

38

"New system" questions

by JustTickledPink in

jw
friends

do you remember all the hype about the "paradise" and then the natural questions that followed that no one has answers to... like,.

"will we have cars in the new system?

" - uh, well jehovah will provide us with whatever we need.

Why don't JW's want to go to Heaven? I recently had a discussion on this with a JW friend of mine. She was so happy that she would "soon" be able to live on earth (with 6 billion+ dead bodies and total destruction) forever. I told her that as a Christian I have been promised eternal life in the presence of God and that I look forward to this. This upset her somewhat, and then she told me that I was totally wrong, certainly not "annointed", and that I would be sorry, soon, that I had not joined God's "chosen" organization...!! ho hum...No matter what I said to her, or showed her in the bible could convince her that she may be even the slightest bit wrong.

Anyway, I don't understand this mindset. It is totally off the wall and irrational. I know as JW's are told they can't go to heaven and that an earthly existance is all they can ever look forward too, but I just don't get it. How does the Watchtower Society convince these people that a promis of heaven and living in the presence of God is out of their reach, and that all they can ever hope, if they are good little JW's, is a destroyed earth.

Appreciate any JW or Ex-JW comments. Thanks

Hondo.

38

"New system" questions

by JustTickledPink in

jw
friends

do you remember all the hype about the "paradise" and then the natural questions that followed that no one has answers to... like,.

"will we have cars in the new system?

" - uh, well jehovah will provide us with whatever we need.

Hondo

I should have known...sheeeeeesh!!

38

"New system" questions

by JustTickledPink in

jw
friends

do you remember all the hype about the "paradise" and then the natural questions that followed that no one has answers to... like,.

"will we have cars in the new system?

" - uh, well jehovah will provide us with whatever we need.

Hondo

Anyone,

Are all the animals, insects, and other than human entities, going to survive the end along with all the faithful JW's? And if so, will they survive and propagate forever as well?

If so, and if everyone turns into vegitarians, it doesn't take someone with a doctorate in math or statistics to figure out that at some point in time the animals and insects will eventually propagate to a point where they will first overwhelm the humans, then eventually overwhelm the earth. If you count in all the resurected folks...hmmmmm. Paradise won't be so paradise. Food will eventually run out. Will Jahoobah take care of all this too?

Hondo

38

"New system" questions

by JustTickledPink in

jw
friends

do you remember all the hype about the "paradise" and then the natural questions that followed that no one has answers to... like,.

"will we have cars in the new system?

" - uh, well jehovah will provide us with whatever we need.

Hondo

I've read where 2034 may be the new year for the "Big Day." I'm just curious, we will certainly have traveled back to the moon, and perhap populated it to some extent, by this time. The same goes for Mars; we will certainly have had manned missions by 2034, and like the moon, maybe even populated that planet to a degree. In any case/prediction, if by some strange fluke (JW's are never wrong about these things, right???!!!), the "big day" does not occur in 2034, or whenever, we will surely have people leaving the good earth to live "abroad" on some celestial body at some point in time. If when they are gone, and the "big day" does comes (predicted of course), what happens to them? 1) if they never return to earth? 2) if they return to earth? If they do not return to earth does Jehovah go out and search other planets for human life, check to see if they are JW's, then destroy them if necessary? If our space travelers do return to earth, then what? First of all, I guess there would be no one to talk to because the Cape and Houston space centers would have been destroyed on the "big day". If they were able to make it back, where would they land? If the ocean, I guess they would float around and hopefully hit land (no JW ships to pick them up). If they were able to land somewhere, how would they be welcomed? Heros? Aliens? Gods? Would they be destroyed upon their return.

New subject. If the "big day" comes on a date/year not predicted by the JW's (and I mean it's not even close), do they still fall in favor with God as his selected, special, and most blessed group on earth? Or, do they have to predict the end to get all the bennies?

Hondo

45

Catholic Answers comment on the REASONING book

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

strategies of the jehovah's witnesses .

there may be no religious organization that engages in more publishing, proportionately to its membership, than the watch tower bible and tract society (watch tower society or wts for short)?the publishing arm of the jehovah?s witnesses.

each month jehovah?s witnesses (jws) distribute millions of books, magazines, and pamphlets, in dozens of languages.

Hondo

Kenneson

I tend to agree with you, in this case. I had read another report, other than the one in the URL you provided, that held the ossuary find I mention very suspect. The point I was trying to make is that Mary probably did have other children after the birth of Jesus. The is a hard to determine fact however, and the ossuary, until found to most probably be not the real thing, was thought of to perhaps be the link connecting Mary with the idea of her being the mother of not only Jesus.

Thanks, and have a good day.

Hondo.

45

Catholic Answers comment on the REASONING book

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

strategies of the jehovah's witnesses .

there may be no religious organization that engages in more publishing, proportionately to its membership, than the watch tower bible and tract society (watch tower society or wts for short)?the publishing arm of the jehovah?s witnesses.

each month jehovah?s witnesses (jws) distribute millions of books, magazines, and pamphlets, in dozens of languages.

Hondo

Heathen, cool your jets, I think you got something right.

The Catholic church does not teach the Mary did have sex, nor does it teach that she did not have sex, after Christ was born. She was a virgin before our Lord Jesus was born however, and she is blessed among women, as the bible states. You sound like you know your bible, please check out Matt 1:26 (I think). This is what the Catholic church teaches; she may have had sex, may not have, but the bible certainly alludes to the fact that she could have. A recent archialogical (an ossuary in Israel I think) find indicates that she may have had sex, and that Jesus had at least one brother named James. The inscription on the discovered ossuary reads something like, "James, brother of Jesus", or something along these lines. The only problem with this find is determining wether the Jesus inscribed is the Christ Jesue. Jesus, the name, as I understand it, was not an uncommon name 2000 years ago.

Have a good day.

Hondo

45

Catholic Answers comment on the REASONING book

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

strategies of the jehovah's witnesses .

there may be no religious organization that engages in more publishing, proportionately to its membership, than the watch tower bible and tract society (watch tower society or wts for short)?the publishing arm of the jehovah?s witnesses.

each month jehovah?s witnesses (jws) distribute millions of books, magazines, and pamphlets, in dozens of languages.

Hondo

Good points Mary (I still don't worship anyone else but God). Good luck with you degree. I have a good friend who attended Simon Frazier University up in the Vancouver area. Beautiful campus.

I guess what it boils down to, at least based on what we have bantered about over past day or so, is semantics and the individual faith and beliefs of each of us. The spiritual comfort zone you build within your heart and soul is, as it turns out, what is important. If someone wants to worship Mary, so be it. Will they be eternally punished for it, who knows, but probably not. I would think God is a fair and equal opportunity supreme being.

Take care, and have a great day Mary.

Hondo

45

Catholic Answers comment on the REASONING book

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

strategies of the jehovah's witnesses .

there may be no religious organization that engages in more publishing, proportionately to its membership, than the watch tower bible and tract society (watch tower society or wts for short)?the publishing arm of the jehovah?s witnesses.

each month jehovah?s witnesses (jws) distribute millions of books, magazines, and pamphlets, in dozens of languages.

Hondo

Mary, whew...!!! slow it down a bit. Peace be with you.

I'm going to venture to say you are Jewish. If you are not maybe you should consider it. The only other person that I ever enjoyed debating similar topics, ideals, and doctrine with, and with as much ferver and passion as I am with you was a Jewish person, and one of my very best friends. Your points though are weak in my opinion, but I certainly enjoy your candor and tons of energy.

Some real quick responses. Not to entice you to go off the deap end again, but to elicit a calm and thought out response. Regarding Mary worship. I worship God only, no one else. plain and simple. I was taught this, as I believe all Christians are, as a Catholic in the 1st grade. This is what is taught now. How other folks revere, honor, or even pray to Mary, is not something I am going to lose any sleep over. Catholic catechism teached that only God is worshipped, period... Sorry, even with all your holy days of obligation, all of Mary's names, etc., You response does not make much sense.

Your other comments are ok. Typical responses, nothing earthshattering. Your response to my comments on the inquisition are good, although I was not trying to diminish the fact the the Catholic's, and others, did a bad thing, a real bad thing. I would certainly not try to mischaracterize or lessen the sorrow of the loss of 6 million Jews during WWII. Two different points in history, two atrocities.

Take care.

Hondo

45

Catholic Answers comment on the REASONING book

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

strategies of the jehovah's witnesses .

there may be no religious organization that engages in more publishing, proportionately to its membership, than the watch tower bible and tract society (watch tower society or wts for short)?the publishing arm of the jehovah?s witnesses.

each month jehovah?s witnesses (jws) distribute millions of books, magazines, and pamphlets, in dozens of languages.

Hondo

Mary,

Disagree and agree with your assessment.

Agree:

1) The name catholic does not mean much other than to identify about a billion people worldwide as being part of a religion established by Jesus. 2) Jesus was a jew. Jews do not now, or ever have, believed in the Trinity.We need to keep the nature and the person of God, and the trinity association separate however. During Jesus ministry he was the person/human of Jesus, son of Joseph and Mary, and as such not part of the Trinity. In his divine nature he is though. The Trininty, although not mentioned by name in the bible, is alluded to several times in both the old and new testaments, starting with the book of Genisis. 3) The inquisitions were bad and will certainly not try to defend the Catholic Church for their actions during these horrible times. Recent historical and archialogical discoveries have found that the church involvement in the inquisition is much, much less than origianally thought. This does not make it right, but the churches involvement is now apparently more historically correct. Keep in mind that the JW's have essentially let people die needlessly since the early part of the 20th century because of their bizzare past beliefs on vaccinations and organ transplants, and now with their contemporarily beliefs on blood transfusions. How many thousands have died in the name of the Watchtower Society. 4) Agree that their is a lot of ritual and "extra stuff" in the Catholic Faith. They could probably knock the hour and a half mass down to 45 mins by simply doing away with needless bells and whistles. The essential and heart of the religion, the Eucharist, is essentially the same, and spoken the same, as it was during the last supper, and is continued to be done in memory of... 5) Agree that there have been many changes in practices, not necessarily doctrine, over past 1500, 1600 years. Again the Eucharist portion of the Catholic celebration is still in tact.

Dissagree:

1) Mary is not worshipped, she is honored, at least in the Catholic Church I go to. 2) Statues/Idols are not worshipped. They are simply reminders, as in the case of the crucifix. It is a visual depiction of what Jesus did for us. 3) the Catholic Church is the original. If you get a chance, take a look at some the of Patristic writings by the early founding fathers of the church. Writings of Clements, Ignatious, and others, clearly point to the Catholic church as being the starting point of christianity today. I have only read a very small portion of them, and unless I'm mistaken, or have read them wrong, the Catholic was the beginning and is still going strong now. I even think the JW's can trace their roots back to the first centuries after the death of Christ, and if they did, I'm sure they will say that everyone back then was a JW back then.

Hondo

45

Catholic Answers comment on the REASONING book

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

strategies of the jehovah's witnesses .

there may be no religious organization that engages in more publishing, proportionately to its membership, than the watch tower bible and tract society (watch tower society or wts for short)?the publishing arm of the jehovah?s witnesses.

each month jehovah?s witnesses (jws) distribute millions of books, magazines, and pamphlets, in dozens of languages.

Hondo

M.J. good response.

Unfortunately, as you say, and most likely sometime after Constantine announced that the church was "the" church, greed, power, and general high level (Pope, bishops, etc) corruption began to take hold, as sometime happens with larger organizations. A lot of what the JW's practice in this day and age, fear, intimidation, guilt feelings, shunning, etc., was preponderant in the Catholic Church from 400/500AD onward for a few hundred years.

I agree, that the term "Catholic" is just a term and somewhat irrelevant. What is pivotal, I think, is the doctrine and patristical ideas that were developed in the first few hundred years of the Catholic Church, and that ultimately set the stage for all other Christian driven religions of the future, including the JW's, even though they, and other groups, have purposely altered age-old (1600-2000 years old)Catholic/Christian doctrine with their inaccurate and highly questionable version of the bible, the NWT.

Hondo