AlmostAtheist

Joined

• started 257 topics
• posted 5,296 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by AlmostAtheist

• 
  62

  Name Things That "Prove" JWs Have The "Truth".

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ....this could be interesting.....

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  And of course, Jehovah's Witnesses are the happiest people on earth!

  (I know I was, so long as I stayed on my medication...)
• 
  41

  Lots of things are going wrong...

  by Sirona in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm going through a time when so many things seem to be going wrong.. doesn't it seem as though it never rains, it pours?.

  i know the skeptics will roll their eyes at this suggestion: i think that sometimes things happen this way for a reason, and that when we successfully get through it, we are so much stronger.. what do you think about the idea that trials sometimes come along for a reason?.

  sirona (of the "searching for a reason" class)

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  Did something happen at work and you're wondering if perhaps it is either a sign that you need to move on or a "mishap" that is sort of cosmically destined to occur to get you to lose your job so you get to your next chapter?

  I don't believe that things happen for a reason, I think they just happen. Under that philosophy, I wouldn't view what happened as anything more than an event. But it could still be telling you something. It's apparent to me that certain people are happy doing certain things. I couldn't paint houses for a living, others couldn't do what I do. If I found myself painting houses, I'd do a crummy job, I'd hate to get of bed in the morning, I'd dread my days. All of those would be "signs" to me to move on.

  Did this help at all? Prolly not. Maybe it'll spark something from someone else!

  Dave of the "hopeful catalyst class"
• 
  10

  A new release about Armaggeddon?

  by Sunnygal41 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  .

  hello all you cool apostababes and dudes!

  terri

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  I heard there was another one of those "leave one everywhere" campaigns going on, but I thought it was a tract. So it's this monster? This seems like pretty thick stuff to be tossing around on the first date.

  Doesn't it seem like this brochure is meant for consumption by the current JW's, not newly interested folks?
• 
  15

  How Reliable are "Messianic" Prophecies?

  by gumby in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  bible supporters feel they have an ace-in-the-hole with the discovery of the dead dea scrolls in the 50's that give creedence to the bible book of isaiah.

  they feel this book contains "messianic prophecies" about jesus.....hence the bible must be true since jesus fullfilled these 'particular ' scriptures they use from the book of isaiah.. here are some of the scriptures.

  read them, research them, and see if you feel these scriptures actually had anything to do with jesus.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  The "messy-anic" prophecies were part of what made the Bible fall apart for me. "See, it says right here that the Christ would be [whatever the scripture they're pointing to says], and see, right here in Matthew, Jesus is just like that!"

  Except they grab a verse out of nowhere that actually has meaning in its context and in no way suggests a later fulfillment or even any "fulfillment" at all, and apply it to Jesus.

  Does anybody know of a list of prophecies that were known historically to be considered prophecies about a future messiah, prior to Jesus showing up and "fulfilling" them?
• 
  21

  Is the Bible Opposed to Celebration of Birthdays?

  by Kenneson in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  yes, says the watchtower society.

  because, they inform us, only pagans celebrated birthdays per the bible and in each case a death occurs.

  let us examine the two passages they use to support their conclusions.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  Amazing timing! I just had this same conversation with a dub and I typed up our notes from the conversation today: (Note that I don't recommend the triumphpro.com site, I only included it because the dub used the guy's birthday essay. That triumphpro.com guy must be a serious whack-job)

  Birthdays ? Disapproved by Jehovah?

  Since the Society disallows baptism for those that are currently celebrating birthdays, it is considered an important matter. Does the Bible actually support this position? Following are several lines of reasoning, and why those lines of reasoning are in question. If it can be shown that birthday celebrations are not condemned by the Bible, would it not be ?going beyond what is written? to forbid them? (1 Cor. 4:6)

  1. There are only 2 birthday celebrations mentioned in the Bible. Both were for wicked people, and murder took place at both of them. (Gen 40:20; Mark 6:21; Matt 14:6)
  1. Jezebel and apostate Israel (both guilty of murder) are the only individuals in the Bible said to use eye paint, making themselves beautiful. (2Kings 9:30; Jer 4:30) The same reasoning that forbids birthdays should also forbid eye makeup, but it doesn?t.
  1. It can?t be reasonably argued that their use of ?eye paint? was excessive, since God?s own word admits they were ?beautiful? after so adorning themselves.
  2. There is no record that the Jews or 1 st century Christians celebrated their birthdays
  1. There is also no record that they held bridal showers, baby showers, or called their houses of worship "Kingdom Halls". The fact that they did not perform a certain act doesn?t in itself preclude our doing so.
  3. The date of Jesus birth is not recorded in the Bible. If we were expected to celebrate birthdays, surely this would be the most important birthday of all.
  1. As shown in point 2, the Jews did not celebrate birthdays, so it is not surprising that Jesus continued that custom. But the point is not to establish whether we "should" celebrate birthdays ("Is it a command?") but to determine if we should not do so ("Is it forbidden?") There is no record that Mary received a baby shower for Jesus or any of her other children, but that has not caused the Society to forbid us from hosting such events.
  4. Birthdays are of Pagan origin, rooted in astrology and showing undue prominence to ruling monarchs. (See http://www.triumphpro.com/birthdays_origin.htm)
  1. Many things originated with people that did not serve Jehovah. This is to be expected, since down through history most people have not followed the path of true worship of God. Is it necessary to reject all things that did not originate with Jehovah?s people?
  1. The use of eye makeup is tied to false beliefs about evil spirits. Should it be forbidden? (see http://www.thehistoryof.net/the-history-of-cosmetics.html)
  2. The practice of dressing the bride and brides maids and the groom and his attendants in similar clothing has pagan origins. Should it be forbidden? (see http://www.iberkshires.com/howto.php?howto_id=7&child=13)
  3. The practice of cremating a body rather than burying it has pagan roots. Is this practice disapproved by God? (see http://www.triumphpro.com/cremation____pagan.htm)
  4. Also consider the pagan origins of the calendar, the names of the planets, wedding rings, wedding veils, and the use of perfume. None of these are forbidden, despite their pagan origins.
  2. Some have said they feel rule for determining if a custom with pagan origins was still acceptable was if the custom was accepted by the world in general (such as the names of the days of the week) and if continuing in the custom did not violate any of Jehovah?s laws from the Bible. By that measure, makeup, cremation, and birthdays would all be acceptable.
  5. Jeremiah 10:1-3 warns us not to ?adopt the customs of the heathens?
  1. The fact that another nation did something does not in and of itself make it wrong. The context of these verses (and similar ones throughout the Bible) make it clear that it is the unclean, scripturally disapproved customs that are in question. As an example, the heathens may have known of a certain construction technique that worked well with the raw materials at hand in the land of Canaan. The Israelites would not have thought it improper to adopt those building methods, since they did not conflict with Jehovah?s laws.
  6. Birthdays direct undue prominence to one person, elevating that one improperly
  1. A wedding feast, such as the one attended by Jesus, would have the same elevating effect on the newly married couple. A baby shower puts the new mother and her child in the spotlight. Even a simple announcement at the Kingdom Hall that a certain individual is pioneering that month tends to draw prominence to that one. But this is not considered wrong under any of these other circumstances. Why single out birthdays?
  7. Solomon warned at Ecclesiastes 7:1-4 that ?the day of one?s death is better than the day of one?s birth?, presumably because at death the individual has run the course of faith successfully and has established his name. The celebrating of one?s birth runs counter to this admonishment.
  1. Solomon said a name is better than good oil, but this does not forbid the accumulating of oil. He said being sad is better than being happy, but this doesn?t forbid being happy. The entire run of verses makes the point that there is a need to spend some time seriously working on one?s character, becoming a genuinely good person. A life spent in sheer frivolity would not result in a good name, but enduring the pain and sadness, along with the comforts and joys, leads to a full life. Solomon was not expressing an opinion about birthday celebrations any more than he was forbidding obtaining good oil, or laughing.
  2. Baby showers are held to celebrate the birth of a baby. Would these not also violate any supposed "rule" of Solomon? While it may be true that the shower provides items for the family, the fact is that the reason the shower is held is because a child was born.
  8. We have no need to celebrate birthdays. We can give gifts all year long, there is no need to wait for a certain day.
  1. While that?s true, the point is to determine if such celebrations are displeasing to God. For instance, there is no real need to drink caffeinated drinks such as coffee or tea, but it isn?t forbidden. We wouldn?t use that same logic to try to forbid any other unnecessary aspects of our lives (pet ownership, home decorating, drinking alcohol), so why would we single out birthdays?
• 
  42

  help please

  by koolkeithfl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i cheated on my wife and i told her what happend and she forgave me......but she told my sister #1(baptized but doesn't go to meetings) what happend.

  then sister #1 proceeded to tell sister #2 (die hard witness).

  now sis #2 is giving me till wed to turn myself in or she is going to do it.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  >> you seem more worried about the JW then what you did

  How about we hold off on the "how could you?!?"'s until he at least clears a few hurdles?

  There's no doubt he feels like crap. But that's one of the many screwed up things about this religion. Right when he and his wife need to rebuild their relationship, they are also going to have to endure either the guilt of not going to the elders, or the two-three week judicial process. The wife will be torn between being so angry at him and feeling so sorry for him as he pours his heart out trying not to get DF'd. No doubt he's thinking about the possible shame and sorrow SHE will face if HE gets DF'd.

  That shouldn't be on the table at all. They should be privately dealing with this family tragedy, with appropriate counseling as THEY see fit. Instead they have to also bear the judicial burden.
• 
  45

  Name Silly Reasons JWs Get Disfellowshipped

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know an argument can be made that any reason is unjustifiable but i'm thinking more of the dumbest reasons.

  for example, if 2 "witnesses" saw you buy a lottery ticket, you could be df'd for "greediness"......any others??

  ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  I get a kick out of the idea that you can be DF'd for not buying the Watchtower doctrine, but it can change. So it's conceiveable that you could believe X and be DF'd for it, then the Society could change its mind and start teaching X, but you'd still be DF'd.

  How would you ever manage to "repent" of the "sin" of being correct too soon?

  Wouldn't it be fun to listen in on the reinstatement hearing?
• 
  42

  help please

  by koolkeithfl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i cheated on my wife and i told her what happend and she forgave me......but she told my sister #1(baptized but doesn't go to meetings) what happend.

  then sister #1 proceeded to tell sister #2 (die hard witness).

  now sis #2 is giving me till wed to turn myself in or she is going to do it.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  In driver's training they teach you to separate hazards. If you've got a kid on a bike in front of you and there's a car coming in the opposite lane, slow down. Let the other car pass, then go around the bike. Don't try to negotiate both hazards at once.

  I'm with Scully on this one. If you both go to the elders, "confess", play by the rules, you will probably only be reproved. Get this immediate "hazard" out of the way. Then you need to seriously decide if you want to continue to be a JW or not. You've been a member of this forum for almost a year, clearly you have some doubts. Despite what we were all taught, doubts aren't bad. They lead to study and research, and better understanding. You can't resolve a doubt by pushing it aside and calling it "bad thinking".

  But it doesn't sound like this is the right time for that sort of emotional/logical upset. Get the disciplinary thing straightened out first. Then begin your own personal systematic investigation of your beliefs.

  The encouragement everyone seems to be pushing here is do whatever you do because you chose to do it, not because circumstances just sort of washed you in that direction. That seems like the best course.

  Hope it helps. I've been right smack dab where you are. If you need to talk further, feel free to PM me.

  Dave
• 
  24

  baptized at 12?

  by pennycandy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  i'm considering what to say to a friend who's thinking about letting her 12 year-old get baptized.

  okay, guys, let 'em rip!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  I hate to post since I have so little to add here, it's just that Gina and I were talking about this very subject just last night. My brother-in-law was so proud of himself (because my in-laws and his congregation told him he should be) because he got baptized at 14. I thought about how his thoughts will change between now and 30, and will he ever regret it. I was three years older than him when I was baptized and I surely, sorely wish I could take it back.

  Gina and I both recognized that you can't marry at that age, and others have commented on the many, many lesser decisions that are withheld from young people due to their immaturity. Yet the borg happily encourages it, and commends those "taking a stand" early in life. "It was a protection for me," so many are quoted as saying. Of course, only the "success stories" are quoted. The others are DF'd, DA'd, or dead. The morbid fear of walking death (DF) is probably a discouragement to sin, but if that's the reason they're staying faithful, it can't last. Like the compressed spring, they'll go off eventually.

  Are there any examples in the Bible of a child being baptized? Timothy was "young", but I don't know if an age is ever specified.

  Dave
• 
  17

  A rock and a hard place

  by Pistoff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been in this forum for 2 years now.

  i have slowed down in posting but only due to being very busy.. when i got here, i was looking for evidence that the child sex abuse scandal was the result of a few bad elders; when i found that it was not, but was systemwide, my brain snapped.

  i had emotionally left the hall in 1997, but just kept trying to reinvent myself and my faith.. i was determined to strip my faith down to the essentials, and build it back up so that when i went to the hall, pursued privileges and so on i was rock solid.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  You've probably already seen this, but I found it very helpful when I decided to try to get my family out of the Borg:

  http://www.freeminds.org/psych/exithelp.htm

  Are you still attending? You're not DA/DF or anything? It sounds like you could do what this guy describes. He basically had an open family study, where he allowed his family to explore the bowels of the organization, ostensibly to "prepare" them for when someone in field service would ask about it. But in digging up the answers and discussing them, they came to see the Watchtower for what it really is.

  Hope it helps,

  Dave