the establishment clause is the part of the bill of rights that grants freedom of religion in the united states.
it is why religions like the jehovah's witnesses can exist.
the witnesses have defended and elaborated on the establishment clause themselves, on many occasions, in the supreme court.
Underbeliever,
The last few days I have been studying clergy-penitent privilege because the WT always uses this privilege in their court cases. In my study the question of the Establishment Clause comes up along with other freedoms in the US constitution.
Your article is very timely for me, simply written, very convincing. I will keep it and use it for reference.
belbab
i am still desperately looking for documentation of cases where jw's have lied under oath, a decision has been reached by the court based on perjury committed by a jw, or the like.
i am helping on custody cases where they are urgently needed right now.
you can help a child.
There was a poster on this board some years ago called, Jang. She was from Australia and her name was Jan Groenvold. She passed away, some time ago. She was a tireless worker, helped many to leave cults and also supported many in child custody cases.
She is still listed on this board as a member.
Perhaps Ozziepost, would know what happened to any records she may have left.
belbab
church allowed accused sex abuser to leave quietly
this is the headline on the front page of today's (feb 28) vancouver sun.. http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=db0e115a-2712-434c-ad62-fb11d28f5206&k=83834.
although this article refers to a roman catholic molester, reading it will cause many a jehovah's witness pedophile to start shaking in their boots or quivering in their jocky shorts.
Here is the quote I was looking for, the entire letter is scanned on Rado Vleugal's website.
By
Rado Vleugel
On June 1, 2001 the Watchtower Society of Britain
send a letter to all bodies of elders about how to handle with child
molesters in the congregation. The letter shows that it is no problem
at all that elders and ministerial servants, who in the past have
abused children, continue to ’serve’ the congregation.
The letter writes:
"The elders may have written to the branch office and given
full details about a former child abuser who is currently serving
as an elder or ministerial servant. In such a case, if the branch
office has decided that he can be appointed or continue serving
in a position of trust because the sin occurred many years ago
and because he has lived an exemplary life since then, his name
should not appear on the List, nor is it necessary to pass on
information about the brother’s past sin if he moves to another
congregation unless contrary instructions have been given by the
branch. "
Below are the scans of this letter:
I could not find this quote in the BOE letters issued in the US. If this quote is only in the British BOE letters, that raises an interesting question, namely: Is there someone serving in a responsible position in the Watchtower org in England that committed that committed child abuse many years ago? If so the above newspaper article shows he is still liable for litigation.
belbab
church allowed accused sex abuser to leave quietly
this is the headline on the front page of today's (feb 28) vancouver sun.. http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=db0e115a-2712-434c-ad62-fb11d28f5206&k=83834.
although this article refers to a roman catholic molester, reading it will cause many a jehovah's witness pedophile to start shaking in their boots or quivering in their jocky shorts.
Jeannie b
I sure they would as long as it was current and had a local interest.
Any one have any stories of JW child abuse in Vancouver BC area?
belbab
Thanks for sharing your story with us alamb.
I am going to do my best to try and find out whether perjury can be a civil matter.
If someone uses lies to seize children and subject them to 18 years of oppressive slavery, there must be some legal recourse somewhere.
Take care, there are thousands with you, as well as heaven itself.
belbab
church allowed accused sex abuser to leave quietly
this is the headline on the front page of today's (feb 28) vancouver sun.. http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=db0e115a-2712-434c-ad62-fb11d28f5206&k=83834.
although this article refers to a roman catholic molester, reading it will cause many a jehovah's witness pedophile to start shaking in their boots or quivering in their jocky shorts.
DB
I am trying to locate the BOE letters, but I haven't located the one I have in mind yet. I know these letters used to be on Watchtower Observer, and I hope they are still located somewhere.
From Silent Lambs site I have obtained the following quotes which have similar instructions but there exists another one somewhere:
TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS IN THE UNITED STATES August 1, 1995 Page 2
While it is unscriptural to say that a former child abuser could never enjoy exemplary privileges of service in the congregation, certainly the elders will want to be very cautious, especially when one had repeatedly engaged in this kind of wrongdoing or had been disfellowshipped for such an offense. Before extending privileges, therefore, it is necessary that one would meet the qualification of having a fine testimony from individuals inside and outside the congregation. This means that he must have lived down the reproach which resulted from his wrongdoing. Generally, it will take a considerable number of years to achieve such irreprehensibility depending on the notoriety involved. So it would be Up to the elders to determine whether such a one is extended privileges, taking into account all factors in each individual case. (1 Tim. 3:7) At any rate, this should never be done hastily. Considerable time should always pass before a former child abuser is used, if ever.
TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS March 14, 1997 Page 2 It may be possible that some who were guilty of child molestation were or are now serving as elders, ministerial servants, or regular or special pioneers. Others may have been guilty of child molestation before they were baptized. The bodies of elders should not query individuals. However, the body of elders should discuss this matter and give the Society a report on anyone who is currently serving or who formerly served in a Society-appointed position in your congregation who is known to have been guilty of child molestation in the past.
I find that what the WT is saying about their elders and ministerial servants fits to a tee, the accusations written in the newspaper article. For example, when Leo Greenless was sent away from Bethel to special pioneer, was it revealed what he was dismissed for?
belbab
church allowed accused sex abuser to leave quietly
this is the headline on the front page of today's (feb 28) vancouver sun.. http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=db0e115a-2712-434c-ad62-fb11d28f5206&k=83834.
although this article refers to a roman catholic molester, reading it will cause many a jehovah's witness pedophile to start shaking in their boots or quivering in their jocky shorts.
Church allowed accused sex abuser to leave quietly
This is the headline on the front page of today's (Feb 28) VANCOUVER SUN.
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=db0e115a-2712-434c-ad62-fb11d28f5206&k=83834
Although this article refers to a Roman Catholic molester, reading it will cause many a Jehovah's Witness pedophile to start shaking in their boots or quivering in their jocky shorts.
Remember the BOE letter that stated that if some pedophile had sinned years ago, but remained repentent and refrained from the practice, he would be allowed to remain in oversight positions in the organization and local elders need not be concerned about them?
Also, do you remember cases where child abusers in elder, ministerial servants positions were quietly removed from their positions and no one was warned about their endangering other children in the organization and also the general public?
Readers fill in the blanks, just in case the WT legal blood hounds are too busy these days to reply.
belbab
alamb, I have another question that I hope you can clarify. The injustices of your story grate me to the corre of my being.
You mentionned that you obtained documents signed by the police that would allow the elder to be charged for perjury, but the courts had no time or staff to persue the matter.
Could you yourself, or in a class action suit involving others who have lost custody of their children to the Watchtower, take up the cause in a civil suit? Can the lying elder be charged under a civil suit for perjury?
I am not a lawyer, but perhaps others that know more about law than I can answer this question.
By asking this question, I am curious to know whether this is a possibility. At the same time I want to rattle the chains of the Watchtower Association of Strategic Liars. Let them sweat a little, and hopefully much.
belbab
alamb,
I appreciate, recognize and admire you for all the tremendous effort you have poured into your struggle to establish what is right in the sight of heaven and earth.
My ex proceeded to take the kids to a counsellor who had "nice JW family". She wrote a letter to the court. They pulled the "First Amendment" card. He got custody. My question: Where are my first amendment rights to leave a religion while not surrending my rights to be a parent?Could you please elaborate on the above quote. What kind of counsellor did your ex use and what does it mean "had nice JW family? Can you explain further on the words: They pulled the "first amendment"? What exactly was the argument they used? You may have had setbacks in this struggle to gain custody of your Kids. But the jury of public opinion is still out on the issue. Kids grow up, and when they reach their teens they start thinking for themselves. They will be interested in the events that took place earlier in their lives. They are a time bomb waiting to explode, devaste and bring to light all injustices. Also, this story is high drama, perhaps you could interest TV exposure such as Opra, or programs such as Law and Order to do a program on it, that way millions including JWs will get the message. Keep up the good work, many are with you. belbab
the world put on notice!
be awake!
be ready!
Lea Stone,
I laboured through the whole, dumpload of your post. You say that we should test your own post to see if it is inspired. There are too many Jehovah's Witness key words, like Korah and Haman etc.
You say that Big J is coming floating on clouds,
It says in the Bible, that he comes meek and lowly riding on a jackass.
It says nothing in the Bible that the jackass will be braying announcing his coming.
Send you post to Watch Tower, Brooklyn, with your return address on it, and then await the three stooges to knock on your door.
You are in for a rough ride, if you continue to repeat your foggy, cloudy views here.
belbab
