Yep, left all by myself in the mid 90's. I was sitting in the middle of a CA looking around thinking "none of these people are my friends". Everyone looked so sad and lifeless. So I grabbed my stuff and walked out never to set foot in a KH again. Felt great, I remember having a big smile on my face as I walked through the parking lot. It was a beutiful sunny day. Spent the rest of the day visiting my mom.
Hecklerboy
JoinedPosts by Hecklerboy
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Anyone leave the org without the help of the net?
by Miss Chievous injust wondering if anyone here left the org without ever looking at anything on the net and if so how did it happen for you?.
miss c.
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Martial Arts - what is the present stance of the WTS
by insearchoftruth ini have read before that the wts is against the martial arts....i do not have a wts cd, so was wondering if there is any wts literature to support this?.
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Hecklerboy
I also explain to the kids and adults in class that participating in a tournament is not just about winning tropheys (althogh that cool). Competition teaches us about ourselves. How we handle defeat and also how we handle victory. It teaches us what we need to work on and that no matter how good you are there is always someone better than you. You learn when you lose. All of my students have to learn the following Creed:
I come to you with only Karate
My empty hands
I am a law abiding citizen
At no time shal I ever use these techiques taught to me
In a manner that will inflict personal injury
Nor will I bodily harm anyone, except in cases of emergency needs
Whereby my honor, life, country, or the lives and physical safety of other
May depend upon my knowledge and application of these techniques
This is my Creed
Karate
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What's YOUR Idea of Weekend Fun?
by minimus inpersonally, i love music.
i typically will see r&b/dance bands on a weekend.
i'm not a homebody.
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Hecklerboy
Mountian Biking, Riding the Harely, and Hanging out with the GF.
I can't believe no one wrote Field Service
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Martial Arts - what is the present stance of the WTS
by insearchoftruth ini have read before that the wts is against the martial arts....i do not have a wts cd, so was wondering if there is any wts literature to support this?.
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Hecklerboy
Realize, too, that to become proficient in the martial arts, one must spend a lot of money and undergo years of vigorous training. And unless you stay in training, your ability to perform those fancy moves can get dangerously rusty in no time at all. The same can be said about other forms of self-defense, such as boxing. Besides, having a reputation for knowing how to fight is likely to attract unwanted attention. Troublemakers may decide to take you on as a challenge.
I believe this is the true reason behind them not allowing it. It will take you away from the weekly indoctrination and take away from donations.
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Martial Arts - what is the present stance of the WTS
by insearchoftruth ini have read before that the wts is against the martial arts....i do not have a wts cd, so was wondering if there is any wts literature to support this?.
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Hecklerboy
Needing to get my facts straight on this and you all have helped immensely!!!!
If my son were to tell the gentleman running his bible study about his participation in the martial arts, what sort of answer could he expect.....I would suspect a bunch of fluff because they right now would not want to paint the negative and controlling aspects of the WTS.....any ideas?
I would suspect they won't make much of a deal of it now, but if he becomes a witless he will have to give it up. They will probably counsel him on the evils of martial arts and how God disapproves of it.
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Martial Arts - what is the present stance of the WTS
by insearchoftruth ini have read before that the wts is against the martial arts....i do not have a wts cd, so was wondering if there is any wts literature to support this?.
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Hecklerboy
I agree, religon has no place in the martial arts. I never teach any type of religous views in class, even though one of our classes is taught in a church. We always teach self-respect and respect for others. Self-discipline and integrity. We always teach to use martial arts as a last resort and to never start anything.
I'm just saying that if someone comes to you and says that martial arts is condemned by the bible you can show where it's not and actually encouraged.
Of course when has the society cared what the bible teaches.
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Martial Arts - what is the present stance of the WTS
by insearchoftruth ini have read before that the wts is against the martial arts....i do not have a wts cd, so was wondering if there is any wts literature to support this?.
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Hecklerboy
Here's an article I found years ago when I started my training. It gives some great points on how martial arts doesn't conflict with the bible.
Martial Arts and the Bible
As a Christian and a martial arts student, I have often wrestled with the idea of self defense. Does God expect me to defend my family and myself when physically attacked or am I to "turn the other cheek" and endure it in the name of Jesus? As I considered the many comments I encountered on this topic, I became even more confused. Some advocates for "religion" have gone as far as to say that anyone who practices in any form of the martial arts is without a doubt bound for hell. It wasn't until I committed myself to a more thorough study of the scriptures that I discovered the truth for myself. The Bible gives more than a few examples of the practice of self defense and the idea of martial arts. I would like to share some of what I have learned in this study of the Bible - Old Testament and New. The Bible is, in fact, the very word of God (II Timothy 3:16 -17). God and Warfare
The first example of a physical struggle in the Bible is in Genesis chapter 4. It is here that Cain kills his brother Abel. This is an act of violence condemned by God for two reasons. First, the violence was out of anger and jealousy because his brother's actions were better than his own (Genesis 4:4-7). Secondly, the violence was premeditated. God confronted Cain before this violence occurred. He told Cain that he would need to figure out how to master the sin of anger and jealousy that was trying to overtake him. What this scripture teaches is that God does not want us to initiate violence but he wants us to train ourselves to master our emotions when tempted with feelings of anger, jealousy and rage. He wants us to prepare our hearts to respond humbly. I believe the study of martial arts can provide this kind of training. I have seen it in my son's martial arts class. His sensei (teacher) may spend up to half of the one hour class teaching the children humility, manners, concern for others and peacemaking. They are taught to avoid violence and stay calm in situations of conflict. This kind of character training is right in line with the example of God's training of Cain.
The next biblical example of a conflict involving a physical struggle is found in Genesis chapter 14. In this chapter, kings are at war and Abram's nephew, Lot and Lot 's family are taken captive. In response to hearing the news about his relatives, Abram sends men to rescue them. In Genesis 14:14-16, Abram sent out "the 318 trained men born in his household". It seems that even though Abram was not at war, he had a training program for his family and household. It was obviously a training program for warfare of some kind – and a good one, at that, since they were victorious in returning Lot , his family and all of their possessions from the hands of warring kings. After Abram's successful rescue, he is honored by God and reminded that God had made him successful against his adversary. God later renames Abram, "Abraham" and he becomes the founding father of faith for the Jewish people (and later Christians as well). To clarify the meaning of the term "martial arts", Webster's defines the word martial as "warfare" or "warrior" and arts as "a skill acquired by study". In the story of Abram rescuing Lot , the Bible gives us an example of warrior training. Not everyone in Abram's household was a part of the 318 trained men, but the ones that were had excellent martial arts training. And God helped them to be victorious as they executed their warfare skills. Here are a few other brief examples of warfare, from the Old Testament, that could be studied further:
- Genesis 32 - Jacob avoids war with his brother, Esau. He prepares for battle but orchestrates a peaceful resolution.
- Deuteronomy 20 - God goes with the warriors to fight against their enemies.
- II Samuel 23:8-39 - the Bible describes David and his mighty men of battle.
- Nehemiah 4 - the builders of Jerusalem 's city wall carry weapons to defend themselves during the rebuilding. There are many more examples in the Old Testament, with a wide variety of scenarios and many unique resolutions. The subject of warfare is very complex and each situation needs to be considered carefully. Therefore, when faced with adversity, wisdom needs to be applied.
An Eye for an Eye
Even with the Old Testament of the Bible showing support for martial arts training, some might argue that the God of the Old Testament is different than the God of the New Testament – that God's position on warfare changed when Jesus came on the scene. It might be said that the God of the Old Testament was about war and the God of the New Testament is about peace.
The Bible, however, does not support this. James 1:17 says that God does not change and Hebrews 13:8 says that Jesus Christ [God] is the same yesterday, today and forever. Therefore, the God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament. As we continue to study this topic, we will see that the New Testament also discusses self defense and the idea of martial arts. Matthew 5:38-42, in which Jesus talks about "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" has been used to condemn martial arts. It reads, "You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you." At first glance this passage seems to be advocating a reversal of the Old Testament laws. I was swayed by this argument myself and was torn in my own convictions for some time. But when I finally decided to dig deeper into the Bible, I was amazed and encouraged to find some answers.
Many people who want to obey the Bible simply gloss over this scripture, like I did, because they are torn between what they think the Bible says and their consciences telling them to prepare for warfare and to protect.
The truth is that Jesus never intended to abolish the Old Testament laws. He only intended to clarify them, to reinforce them, fulfill them and reveal God's heart behind them. This is what Jesus says just moments earlier in Matthew 5:17: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the [Old Testament] Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." When Jesus speaks about "turning the other cheek" in Matthew 5, he is referring to the Old Testament Mosaic laws found in Exodus 21, 22 and 23. These chapters in Exodus contain the laws God gave to his people, which reinforce and further detail the famous "ten commandments". Jesus is specifically referring to Exodus 21:22 where God explains what punishment should be given if men are fighting and an innocent bystander is harmed (in this instance, a pregnant woman). This is not a scripture about self defense but about restitution and punishment for a crime. Jesus referred to this scripture because the people, in religious self righteousness, were using this particular scripture to justify retaliation and vengeance. "An eye for an eye" had become an excuse to be intolerant and merciless toward one another. A closer look at the "act of aggression" that Jesus refers to as a strike on the cheek will reveal that he is talking about an insult rather than a fighting fist. The word "strike" is translated from the Greek word "rhapizo" which is used interchangeably with the word "slap". In the Jewish culture (as in many other cultures), a slap in the face was a form of humiliation or rebuke. It was not necessarily a physical attack and was not meant to result in physical harm. Even Exodus 21:21 (regarding "an eye for an eye") says that if, as a result of a conflict, a pregnant bystander is forced to give birth prematurely but there is no serious injury to the woman or the baby, "an eye for an eye" should not be applied as a punishment. Jesus is confirming that this Old Testament law regarding punishment is not to be used as an excuse for retaliation when inconvenienced or insulted. Jesus is exposing the heart of man and is further clarifying the Old Testament Law. God's desire is that we don't retaliate but rather that we restrain our emotions in the heat of conflict and maintain righteousness and mercifulness. We are not to pounce on our adversary at the first sign that we have been offended. The ultimate goal of God is to win over the offender, help him to see God's mercy and institute a change of heart in the offender (see 2 Peter 3:9-15 and Luke 9:51 -56 for further study). Guidelines for Martial Arts
The Bible provides some guidelines for practicing self defense and martial arts as it aims to clarify what is and is not acceptable in the face of conflict. II Timothy 3:16-17 says, "All Scripture [the Bible] is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." I Corinthians 13:7 says "[Love] always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres". Using the Bible as a guide, a person can become thoroughly equipped to be a protector.
Permanent injury or death can occur as a result of practicing martial arts. This does not make martial arts unacceptable to God but God clarifies what is and is not acceptable in regard to deadly force in various situations. For example, Exodus 21:12-14 says that if a person is killed unintentionally, the killer is not guilty of murder. If it is intentional, the killer is to be sentenced to death. Exodus 21:18-19 says that if men are quarreling and one strikes the other and injures him seriously but not permanently (even with a weapon), he is responsible only to compensate the injured man for loss of time and medical expenses. I point out these scriptures to show that God is concerned with the attacker's and the defender's intentions as well as the outcome of the conflict. We cannot simply say that anyone who harms or kills another man is guilty and has committed a sin. It depends on his intentions. Also, we see that using extreme force or even a weapon may be acceptable if it is used in a way as to not intentionally inflict permanent damage.
The Bible refers to another situation in which self defense may be used during a robbery, in Exodus 22:2-3. If a man is being robbed, he is entitled to protect his property, his family and himself. If the attempted robbery takes place at night and the actions of self defense result in the death of the robber, the defender is not guilty. If the attempted robbery takes place in the daytime and the robber is killed, the defender is guilty of sin. The difference may be that in the daytime, the defender should have more control of his actions and should be able to subdue the robber without killing him. Self defense is warranted but control must be applied. At night, in the dark, maximum force would be acceptable since it is more difficult to assess the threat that the robber poses. It would be more difficult to tell if the attacker had a weapon or to assess his physical strength.
God expects us to constantly make decisions about the situations we are in. In regard to martial arts and self defense, it seems that God is concerned with our intentions. Guilt and innocence, to him, are a matter of the heart. God expects us to be directed by the heart of the scriptures in the Bible. We must be directed in our actions by scriptures such as Deuteronomy 5:17, which says "You shall not murder" as well as I Corinthians 13:7 which says, "[Love] always protects". As the Bible states in II Timothy 3:16-17, all Bible scripture is relevant and useful. During one of my martial arts classes, one of my fellow students asked our sensei, "What attack should I make now?" He had just finished practicing a series of intense self defense tactics on his partner, rendering him harmless. Sensei replied "Run". No final "kill-move"? No, it is time to make another decision about the threat the attacker poses. If the attacker has been successfully rendered harmless then you shouldn't stick around to inflict more damage or further risk your own safety. The Bible gives us specific guidelines for martial arts but God also communicates his heart about how he wants us to treat one another. He wants us to treat one another with love – even in conflict.
Weapons
I have also wrestled with the question of whether or not it was right for weapons to be used as a means of defense. Should I own a fighting knife, a sword or a gun? Isaiah 2:4 says, "... They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore." If this scripture were taken out of context with the rest of the Bible, to use a weapon would be a sin. But this scripture has to be balanced with others. In the context, this scripture is describing the contrast between the nations of that time and the type of nation Jesus would establish in the future. The nation that Jesus would establish would have no military and there would be no physical walls to defend. It would be a spiritual nation, not a physical one.
The New Testament clearly confirms the right to bear arms. Romans 13:4 says "For [the governing authority] is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer." Even Jesus directs his disciples to acquire weapons as the time of his crucifixion approached. Luke 22:36 says "He said to them, ‘But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.'" And in Luke 22:38, "The disciples said, ‘See Lord, here are two swords.' ‘That is enough,' he replied." Peter soon after uses the sword to protect Jesus and Jesus rebukes him for it. This was not to say that it is wrong to use a weapon to protect someone. Peter had earlier been rebuked by Jesus for trying to keep him from fulfilling his mission of dying for the sins of the world (see Matthew 16:21-28). Jesus was restating that Peter was not to protect Jesus from going to his death. This was not the correct time to use the sword. Jesus had his disciples arm themselves because Jesus was not going to be with them, physically, any longer. They would need to protect themselves and each other and Jesus gave them the right to bear arms in order to do so.
Martial Arts is Not Religion
It is important to note that martial arts is not religion in that it is not an institute of service and worship of God. It is only a tool to accomplish a necessary training. There will be flaws in all martial arts training and even things taught that are contradictory to the Bible. This will happen even when the martial arts style or system is advocating biblical based training. Romans 3:4 says "... Let God be true and every man a liar." My son was recently taught by an instructor during class to avoid talking about politics and religion in order to avoid conflict. Though I appreciate the effort made to train the kids to keep the peace, the concept is biblically flawed. I spent the next week teaching Bible scriptures to my son such as Acts 4, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey [man] rather than God. For we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard." It is each person's responsibility as a Christian to know what the Bible teaches. Even in Acts 17:10-11, when the apostle Paul taught the people of Berea , the Bereans were honored by God for having a noble character because "they received the message with great eagerness and examined the scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." Each of us has the same responsibility to examine the scriptures to see if what we are being taught is true, whether it be a teaching from our martial arts instructor, school teacher, neighbor or religious leader. Conclusion
Martial arts training has its place. It can help people learn to deal with the inevitable conflicts in life. There is no escaping battle in life. God wants people to be prepared to handle these battles, whether it is to turn the other cheek to an insult, find a peaceful resolution or physically defend themselves or others. Martial arts and self defense are not sinful or inherently wrong, but without the guidance of God and the Bible, martial arts could be misapplied. Without proper biblical training we are left to our own sinful nature, which tends toward retaliation, haste, fear, hatred, pacifism and intolerance. Martial arts is a biblical concept, but even more attention should be given to biblical training. The Bible should be used in conjunction with martial arts training. In conclusion, I Timothy 4:7-8, which says "Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives' tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come."
Scripture taken from the HOLY BIBLE, NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION. Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984. International Bible Society. Used by permission of Zondervan Bible Publishers. -
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Martial Arts - what is the present stance of the WTS
by insearchoftruth ini have read before that the wts is against the martial arts....i do not have a wts cd, so was wondering if there is any wts literature to support this?.
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Hecklerboy
Since my wife has been studying again, her attitude on about everything really sucks, and I can understand, if all you ever hear is the bad points about everything......
Every time she talks about how bad things are make sure you mention something good in the world. Like people rescueing animals or helping homeless people. Talk about what a great day it is. Show her that life is what you make it.
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Martial Arts - what is the present stance of the WTS
by insearchoftruth ini have read before that the wts is against the martial arts....i do not have a wts cd, so was wondering if there is any wts literature to support this?.
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Hecklerboy
The Society always puts the martial arts in a bad light. They never speak of all the good it does. How it gives people self-confidence and self-esteem. How shy little backward kids become strong confident adults. They've obviously have never seen the sparkle in a young childs eye when they get promoted to their next belt level or when they learn a new kata.
And as for teaching, it's one of the most rewarding things I've ever done. I have one 11 year old girl in my class that runs and jumps in my arms at the beginning of class and calls me her step-dad. Her family life sucks and she really needs something positive in her life. Another student gets made fun of at school and is very un-coordinated. Yet he tries very hard in class and will probably get student of the year.
I've also had one of my teenage students us his training to stop a drugie from pushing drugs on his friends.
It's sad that the Witnesses only see the bad in everything. They need to open their minds and see that this is a wonderful world that we live in.
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Hecklerboy
When I was young I used to pray every night not to see a demon. They had me completely terrified. How messed up is that?