new york times december 15, 2001 .
in a startling revelation, the watchtower bible and tract society of brooklyn ny, parent organization to the jehovah's witness religion, was exposed for a stark contradiction in their religious practices.. it was revealed this week by the guardian (a leading uk newspaper) that the governing body of the watchtower religion had secretly erected a christmas tree in celebration of the festive season.
when the facts were made public this week, the watchtower quickly, and quietly, removed the tree to another location.. paul gilles, spokesman for the watchtower in great briton, wrote a letter to the guardian, in which he stated that the "tree was in no way secret" and that it was "necessary to gain access to the un library".
Listen, if you can't tell right off what you were reading, then you don't have a hope of dealing with "Truth" and "the facts" cause' you wouldn't know it if you read it.
BTW, when Jesus comes, tell him to stick with "the facts" and quit with all the illustration junk.
just in case any lurkers here may be in doubt about the criticisms made of the witnesses' idolizing of an organisation, here is a selection of their claims, in their own words:.
"he [god] does not impart his holy spirit and an understanding and appreciation of his word apart from his visible organisation.
" (the watchtower, july 1, 1965, page 391).
What this site should have (Simon take note) is a way of labeling people. Sure!
After elevendymillion posts, we get the titles that show what level poster we are. Cool. But let's go one step further.
How about a kind of "survival" board, where, when someone is a moron, (YK) then we can all vote and his title becomes "Baffoon" (stole this from YK's post).
Then, as new persons tune in to the board, they wouldn't have to read a bunch of YK's worthless posts to find out that he's a moron.
They can just look at his title.
just in case any lurkers here may be in doubt about the criticisms made of the witnesses' idolizing of an organisation, here is a selection of their claims, in their own words:.
"he [god] does not impart his holy spirit and an understanding and appreciation of his word apart from his visible organisation.
" (the watchtower, july 1, 1965, page 391).
YK is the kind of nurdfodder that you just goota like ...to make fun of...
His posts are always infantile, and reveal a juvenile disposition. His mentality is that of a reckless child, seeking to put down others in the belief that he will be a BIGGER man.
He was probably a bully in the schoolyard, and not that long ago I might add.
His posts make no sense. He says lots, but with no foundation for it. He just rants.
I say to YK, why bother even trying to formulate a post that makes any sense. Why not just stick to posts like my daddy is bigger than your daddy, or perhaps nah-nah, nahnah-nah
Loser.
just in case any lurkers here may be in doubt about the criticisms made of the witnesses' idolizing of an organisation, here is a selection of their claims, in their own words:.
"he [god] does not impart his holy spirit and an understanding and appreciation of his word apart from his visible organisation.
" (the watchtower, july 1, 1965, page 391).
The moron "youknow" alias "court jester" alias "fool" said...
"Even in your using the Watchtower's quotes against them is a method that you learned from Ray Franz"Not exactly correct. But if you replace the name "Ray Franz" with the name JESUS CHRIST, then you are bang on youdon'tknow...
Het yk, get a life. Your type is know. Sissy ass juvies who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.
You're probably just angry at the world cause' the elders won't let you handle the mics.
well, i read something about, but i have no link nor further details.
I was going to call Steven F. tomorrow morning. I was going to ask, politely, if it would be at all possible to get a copy of the WTS papers etc.
can anyone ask raymond franz what he knows about the un involvement?.
.
kpax
All this talk about what Ray knows, or doesn't...
Ray is just a guy, like you and me, (sorry girls) and he needs to eat breath and sleep. A little enjoyment thrown in would be good.
Ray has written lots, as some have correctly pointed out. He is interested in getting what he's written into as many hands as possible.
He was not involved in any "UN thing", so what's to write? Any one of us can write UNUNUNUNUNUN. Who's listening?
For Ray to "write something" wouldn't matter any more than if you or I wrote something. He's written lots about what he HAD something to do with and needs time for other things now.
But, if some of you folks need for Ray to write something, then in my next letter to Ray, (and he always responds even though I told him there was no need) I will tell him to write a sentence or two about the UN thing. I might even write it for him and he can just copy it when he writes back. Then I will post it.
Sarcastic? Yes, but for those who insist that his writing of something will make the difference, that's only fitting.
Ray does not have 50 Reuters reporters on his doorstep just panting at the thought that he will emerge from his lair to impress the world with his wisdom!
Ray is, as I said earlier on, a guy... like the rest of us. And to my knowledge, the only thing he held back when he wrote CofC, was information about Chitty and Greenlees. And in ISOCF he mentioned their disgusting habits. So what's left?
Hey, we all want the tower to crumble. But ray ain't gonna bring it down. He chipped at the rock and it's cracking. He's led the way. Now it's up to the rest of us.
So, for the "Ray's gotta say something" crowd, GET OVER IT!
ive found the un affiliation threads very interesting, but ive also expressed the view that this issue will have virtually no effect on jw membership.
i have at least two reasons for believing this.. first, after reading w. j. schnells 1957 book, thirty years a watchtower slave, in which the author describes how the watchtower used negative publicity to increase membership, im now of the opinion that continued commentary on this matter may only serve to foster an even greater conviction on the part of rank and file jws that they are being persecuted, and they will increase their efforts to recruit members; this will offset what i think will be a miniscule number of defections by those who will feel betrayed because of the un affiliation.
the reason why i think there will be few defections is described below.. second, i believe that the watchtower can easily defend itself.
As I told you before Alward, your brain is burnt.
You come 'round here flashing your education like a badge and saying "it won't work"... you're a fool. It will work and is already succeeding.
Why don't you go back to school. It seems you still haven't learned.
ive found the un affiliation threads very interesting, but ive also expressed the view that this issue will have virtually no effect on jw membership.
i have at least two reasons for believing this.. first, after reading w. j. schnells 1957 book, thirty years a watchtower slave, in which the author describes how the watchtower used negative publicity to increase membership, im now of the opinion that continued commentary on this matter may only serve to foster an even greater conviction on the part of rank and file jws that they are being persecuted, and they will increase their efforts to recruit members; this will offset what i think will be a miniscule number of defections by those who will feel betrayed because of the un affiliation.
the reason why i think there will be few defections is described below.. second, i believe that the watchtower can easily defend itself.
Now, I am not a brain doctor, but I can read and learn like the next guy. A few things that the good brain doctors of the world have taught me show that there are different kinds of mindsets in folks.
They say that there are different "types" of personalities. Type "a" is so and so... etc. What affects one JW, so as to make him/her wake up, can prove insufficient for the next. What is ineffectual on one can prove to be a bullet for yet another.
What we would all like to see is something that is completely effective on all JWs. Something so henious that all personality "types" of JWs will awake to the truth.
So far, the UN thingy has come the closest. And I think the interfaith thing is right up there too.
For instance, I tell my Dad all things, and he is now an anti-orger like most informed ones. But when I sent him the link to the interfaith group in NYC where the WTS has asked to be part, well that hit and he even showed my Mom. He was very enthusiastic about it.
My wife, well she is on the edge. I am preparing things for the day I show her more, and I KNOW this, that the interfaith thing is going to hit her hard. Other things don't, but this will.
Reason, ...HYPOCRISY. Dubs can't stand it. The may not be aware of it, and so it can be ignored. Or perhaps it's a tiny hypocrisy ....like the elders making a rule and breaking it themselves.... so they surpress. But when it's blatent hypocrisy, like going to a website for interfaith, which for all intents and purposes would be viewed by most dubs as an apostate site, and finding that the WTS was there 'participating' in online hyposrisy.
Well, I know that if I can get my wife to see, see see it then she would flip. It would affect her. Yet I am not ignorant. There are those dubs, usually newer ones, who would make excuse for this connection too.
I find that these things, Rays's books, the UN and interfaith thing, Mexico VS Malawi, these affect long-time dubs but do almost nothing for the new ones.
I believe that dubs need to chase the carrot for a while, whaste some years of their life, and have been pounded over the head with the WTS's self-righteousness for a good long while, before they appreciate the truth and see the HYPOCRISY.
My wife is almost there.
it is official in usa.
the announcement was made at the service meeting.. letter read due to cost of postage...once your subsription expires it will not be renewed.
Lisa, you "pretend" too? Carry on woman!!
Tips on how to start a magazine route.
1) Get some mags.
2) Get some territory.
3) Go to territory with mags.
4) Put magazine in door.
5) Run away.
can anyone ask raymond franz what he knows about the un involvement?.
.
kpax
I spoke to him on the phone two weeks ago... he is keeping tabs on the whole affair but didn't seem overly intested.
