The UN Affiliation: Likely Denouement?

by JosephAlward 22 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward

    I’ve found the UN affiliation threads very interesting, but I’ve also expressed the view that this issue will have virtually no effect on JW membership. I have at least two reasons for believing this.

    First, after reading W. J. Schnell’s 1957 book, Thirty Years a Watchtower Slave, in which the author describes how the Watchtower used negative publicity to increase membership, I’m now of the opinion that continued commentary on this matter may only serve to foster an even greater conviction on the part of rank and file JWs that they are being persecuted, and they will increase their efforts to recruit members; this will offset what I think will be a miniscule number of defections by those who will feel betrayed because of the UN affiliation. The reason why I think there will be few defections is described below.

    Second, I believe that the Watchtower can easily defend itself. I envision a defense something like this:

    We’ve always been opposed to governments, and have prided ourselves on being a organization not of government—a non-governmental organization (NGO). As all of our brothers and sisters well know, we’ve always opposed the United Nations, and believed that they are one of Satan’s organizations, and many articles about the UN’s failures have appeared in Awake!.

    Watchtower writers long have been using information compiled by the UN and stored in their many libraries, and often have gone into those libraries to obtain this information. Since at least 1991, access to the main library—the Dag Hammerskold Library—has been possible only after presenting a “ground pass” to the guard at the door. When we learned that such a ground pass would be made available to any NGO which requested and was granted affiliation with the UN’s Department of Public Information (DPI), we made such a request and was granted affiliation and the ground pass was obtained. Much has been made by some of the fact that there were other ways to obtain the grounds pass, such as by convincing the library that the Watchtower had legitimate research purposes for accessing the main library, but at the time we thought an application for affiliation with the DPI would be more expeditious.

    As a condition of being affiliated with the DPI, we were required to submit evidence which showed that we were publishing information about the UN’s activities. This we gladly agreed to do, since writing stories about the UN’s activities was something we were already doing. When we learned recently that some officials at the UN insisted that an organization’s affiliation with the DPI meant that it accepted the goals of the UN, we immediately terminated our affiliation and gave back the ground pass. In all of our correspondence with the DPI, we were never asked to affirm that we accepted the goals, aims, or principles of the UN; indeed, if we ever had been asked to so, we naturally would have refused. Furthermore, nobody in the governing body was aware that the DPI expected its affiliated NGOs accepted the UN’s goals. If the governing body had been aware of that, it immediately would have disassociated itself from the DPI.

    It appears that DPI officials just naturally assumed that we accepted the UN’s principles because they know Jehovah’s Witnesses are against war, and for peace, and also because we were actively describing the UN’s activities, and gave evidence of this once a year when we renewed our application; it didn’t seem to bother them that we always pointed out in our articles that there was a better way to achieve the UN’s goals: the way of Jehovah. The Watch tower, as all brothers and sisters know, could never accept the goals of the UN, but we could--and did--demonstrate with our articles that the UN was not reaching its goals, and never will, because true peace on earth will come only when Jehovah establishes his Kingdom goverment on earth.

    I wonder how many JW's are going to bolt the organization after hearing this defense.

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

    * http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

  • rem
    rem

    Joseph,

    I think you are right. The UN issue is really only the straw that breaks the camel's back for people who already have serious doubts. On its own it is not enough to affect the vast majority of Witnesses. I think you are also correct that negative publicity tends to only bolster their view that they are the one true religion.

    The Watchtower's defense is very easily swallowed by the average dub, but to the ones who aren't afraid to ask questions (a very small minority) it is quite a big deal and it could very well contribute to their leaving the organization. In fact it already has for some, though I don't see any mass exodus coming any time soon. Now that's one prediction I hope is not accurate. :)

    rem

    "We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain
  • avengers
    avengers

    This is a very weak defense! Weak JW's will fall for it. Has it not always been so that the GB preys on the weak-ones? We have to expose the WT for what they are!

    They committed adultery with the Scarlet-Colored Wild Beast. There is enough evidence of this. What will it take for the brothers and sisters to see this fact? A lot. Because the Indoctrination-Machine is running full time. They don't give you time to think.
    It's up to us to show the world that the WT is a very dangerous religion. It's very fundamentalistic, as the Taliban was.
    So it will go with al treacherous religions.

    "Few are they that look through their own eyes and feel with their own heart"
    A Einstein
  • anewperson
    anewperson

    Your suggestion that the UN-WTS liason not be publicised pleases the WTS beyond the least shadow of doubt and therefore deserves to be full ignored. If extra publicity freed only 1 person the effort would be worthwhile. As to their benefiting by saying they are being persecuted, what else is new?

    The same could be said of our getting extracts of Ray Franz books into the hands of JWs; shall we not do so because they would whine "we're being persecuted"? Christ said that when people know the truth they are freed, so by all means let's tell them the truth which is that the WTS had a special arrangement as a non-governmental organization in association with the UN for 10 years until the internet blew the lid on it in October 2001.

    If you have better suggestions for how we can liberate more JWs faster, go ahead and post them right here. Just don't suggest the do-nothing idea again. Your other suggestions, please:

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward
    Your suggestion that the UN-WTS liason not be publicised pleases the WTS beyond the least shadow of doubt and therefore deserves to be full ignored. If extra publicity freed only 1 person the effort would be worthwhile.

    It's not true, as the poster above evidently believes, that I think that this issue should not be given any publicity. I'm almost always in favor of the truth getting out, though people may disagree about how much energy one should expend to get it out. The lesser of the two points I tried to make was that this publicity is not necessarily going to hurt the Watchtower, and might even help. It's also not true that this publicity would be "worthwhile" even if only one person were freed, because it's possible that ten might be imprisoned at the same time.

    My main point was that given the evidence currently arrayed against it, the Watchtower will find it very easy to defend itself, perhaps even without lying--in my opinion. Thus, the efforts its opponents are putting forth are unlikely to come to much, again, in my opinion.

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

    * http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

  • Lionel_P_Hartley
    Lionel_P_Hartley

    Joseph,

    Welcome!

    The WTS has already lied to defend itself on this issue, so, clearly they cannot now defend themselves without lying.

    I'm curious, are you an exJW? If not then you may not be fully appreciative of the impact that the UN affair has had, and will have, on JWs as they get to know of it. Sure, few wil leave directly as a result, but that isn't how it goes. A rather large number of JWs become inactive primarily through discouragement at being unable to achieve impossible goals and constant failed expectations. It's a bit like being on a permanent diet but one that you cannot stick to. Part of the effect will be to cause a further slowing down on the part of individual JWs, and an increased sense of weariness. The UN affair is simply another victory in a long war of attrition.

    Since you're a physicist you'll be aware of the quantum adiabatic principle. All of these things accumulate and cause the leaders to effect change but change that is turned on so slowly that most don't notice. Example: write to the WTS and ask them directly how long a creative day is. I'd love to see their answer posted here. You could argue that you need to know because you ocassionally teach JW students who seem unsure if it's 7000 years - as it used to be or merely an unspecifed "thousands of years." The theological adiabatic principle in action!

    LPH

  • one
    one

    did you chnange your mind?

    First, on another topic, you said you dont see any wrong on the part of the wt

    now you say that exposing the nnfomation will not have a big impact.
    if most jw dont beleive it, it is their reponsability.

    one reason they wont pay attention is that most are new in the org. or too old, people dont like and resist changes

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Joe,

    Seeing you don't even believe in the Hoeffel letter, you don't believe they are lying in their letters etc. etc. etc. why the hell are you starting this up?

    Go away Joe and talk about something else.

    One is right - Also it has to be exposed with all the rest of it. The UN is one tree in a big forest and it is the forest that must be exposed. The more exposure the better.

    hawk

  • Lionel_P_Hartley
    Lionel_P_Hartley

    Joseph,

    I apparently missed your other threads. Your analysis of the UN affair is severely flawed for the following reasons:

    (i) The library card defense is a red herring. The 1968 UN resolutions 1296 and 1297 clearly spell out the requirements for a DPI affiliated NGO. It cannot get any simpler than that. It doesn't matter what the WTS's motivations were - by affiliating they were agreeing to support the UN's principles as per those resolutions. Now assume they were somehow unaware of them at the time, they still lied by stating in Gillies letter that the rules had somehow changed. They hadn't. Those are documented facts. Also, in that letter why did they not acknowledge that they had withdrawn because of information published by the Guardian itself - information of which they were, if we take them at their word, unaware? Instead they called the article erroneous when, by their actions, they proved its central point to be absolutely valid. Is that honest?

    Actually, they knew of this before it hit the Guardian, but it was only after public exposure that they took the necessary steps. The WTS still has not issued any public explanation public about this matter - if it is innocent then why not do so?

    Further, each year - for 10 years - the WTS received information from the UN stating, among other things, what the role of NGOs is. You may say, perhaps they didn't read it. So what, since when has not reading something been a defense? Basically yours is an apology for the WTS by giving them the benefit of the doubt in matters where there is no credible doubt. Could you get out of a speeding ticlet by arguing that you didn't know the speed limit? Perhaps occasionally, but ignorance of the law is no excuse.

    If they were actually ignorant of all this then at least an honest apology would be called for - not the tissue of lies in Gillies' letter. A letter, which, incidentally the Guardian's editor refused to publish because it was dishonest.

    (ii) The Awake! articles from 1991 on out are strikingly different from those before. While it is true that technically the articles always point to a better way than the UN nevertheless, to the public, they appear favorable not just to the UN but also to UN principles. Pointing to a "better way" is not the same thing as condemning the UN which is what the WTS should be doing according to its own values. A better mouse trap does not imply that the earlier model was crap. To state it differently - quantum mechanics is a better way than classical mechanics. does that make classical mechanics a disgusting thing, or just a "less good" thing?

    The WTS was talking up the UN for its own benefit - you can't get away from that. I have rarely read a more convolulted argument than yours as to how those articles were actually condemning the UN. Actually, they were written to appeal to the UN officials but without overtly offending JW sensibilities on the UN.

    In reality the WT opposes both the UN and its principles such as free speech for individuals. It's called talking out of both sides of your mouth. No one on thi sboard is so stupid as to suggest that the WTS was actually supporting the UN as you seem to think we are doing. Our point is that they misrepresented themelves to the UN so that, as you have grasped, they could exploit the UN. However, doing that contradicts the WTS's stated positions. In fact, people died in Malawi because they could not buy a party card even though it was a single-party state. In WT land the end does not justify the means for the rank and file. Hence the leaders have a double standard.

    (iii) The WTS has condemned in its magazines other religious NGO-affiliates of the UN for using their position to gain influence. However, it has done the same thing and in semi-secret. Why did not rank & file JWs know of the UN affiliation? Merely seeing the WTS on the UN NGO web page is a great shock to most JWs. Why is that if it is as innocent as you say?

    (iv) Since the WTS has been shown to lie about many things and to misrepresent the facts on many occasions, why would they draw the line here? You ask, would they be so stupid as to lie about something that is easily checked? That is incredibly naive - of course they would, because JWs are prohibited from checking and the rest of the world doesn't really care.

    Joseph, your analysis is superficial, naive and unbelievably myopic.

    LPH

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward

    Lionel,

    If you don't mind, I would prefer not to unravel this thread by pursuing here the points you raised; I would like to let this one go for a little longer to see if there is a concensus among members that the defense I've offered is likely to be sufficient to shield the Watchtower from significant injury.

    I'll be happy to respond to your comments in another thread, if you're interested in starting one. Or, perhaps you could enter existing but dormant threads in which I've laid out my case, and present your argument there. You’ll find those at

    * http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/userposts.asp?id=4148&site=3

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

    * http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

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