Posts by Ianone

26

Modalism vs. Trinitarianism (which one stands better against JW doctrine?)

by Ianone in

modalistic monarchianism, also known as modalism, is the view that god variously manifested himself as the father (primarily in the old testament), other times as the son (primarily from jesus?

conception to his ascension), and other times as the holy spirit (primarily after jesus?

ascension into heaven).

Ianone

Well , I maintain what scripture says;

Joh 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one (One in singularity, not one in unity)

2Ki 19:22 Whom hast thou reproached and blasphemed? and against whom hast thou exalted thy voice, and lifted up thine eyes on high? even against the Holy One of Israel.

Ps 71:22 I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth, O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel.

Ps 78:41 Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.

Ps 89:18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.

Isa 28:2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one , which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

Isa 1:24 Therefore saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:

Isa 30:29 Ye shall have a song, as in the night when a holy solemnity is kept; and gladness of heart, as when one goeth with a pipe to come into the mountain of the LORD, to the mighty One of Israel.

I AM THE MIGHTY ONE

Ge 49:24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)

Ps 132:2 How he sware unto the LORD, and vowed unto the mighty God of Jacob;

A GREAT ONE

Isa 19:20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one , and he shall deliver them .

I AM THE GREAT GOD

Ps 95:3 For the LORD is a great God , and a great King above all gods.

I AM THE MOST HIGH

2Sa 22:14 The LORD thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice.

THERE IS NONE BESIDE ME

Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God

Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me ; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

I AM ALONE

Job 9:8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

Ps 136:4 To him who alone doeth great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Lu 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

BY MYSELF

Ge 22:16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:

Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself , the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Jer 22:5 But if ye will not hear these words , I swear by myself, saith the LORD , that this house shall become a desolation.

Jer 49:13 For I have sworn by myself, saith the LORD , that Bozrah shall become a desolation, a reproach, a waste, and a curse; and all the cities thereof shall be perpetual wastes Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone ; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself

THERE IS NONE ELSE

Isa 45:5 I am the LORD , and there is none else, there is no God beside me : I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

ONE GOD

Mr 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God ; and there is none other but he:

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God , the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God , and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God ; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Ga 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one . Mal 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

ONE MASTER

Mt 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Ex.21:5-6 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever .

Isa 1:3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master?s crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.

Mal 1:6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name . And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

Mt 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

Eph 6:9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him. Joh 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am .

26

Modalism vs. Trinitarianism (which one stands better against JW doctrine?)

by Ianone in

modalistic monarchianism, also known as modalism, is the view that god variously manifested himself as the father (primarily in the old testament), other times as the son (primarily from jesus?

conception to his ascension), and other times as the holy spirit (primarily after jesus?

ascension into heaven).

Ianone

Let me simplify it:

Father (God in His unlimited form/manifestation) Son (God in His limited form/manifestation)

Probably the best question that will stump a trinitarian is "who was Jesus praying to if He is God?"

The Modalists are in a better position to answer this seeing as they are truly monotheists.

If the Son is God in a limited role, and if God became a genuine human being, he would need to have all the needs that any average human being has, INCLUDING the neccesity for prayer.

If God becomes a man and does not need to pray, than He is almost cheating His own humanity.

One could argue that God's humanity (as His human (SON) manifestation) was praying to the Father (His unlimited manifestation)

Try to wrap your mind around this as technical as this sounds.

I think the greater question is: by God as a man, praying to the Father, was it merely a charade of some sorts or is there something deeper we can not yet understand?

26

Modalism vs. Trinitarianism (which one stands better against JW doctrine?)

by Ianone in

modalistic monarchianism, also known as modalism, is the view that god variously manifested himself as the father (primarily in the old testament), other times as the son (primarily from jesus?

conception to his ascension), and other times as the holy spirit (primarily after jesus?

ascension into heaven).

Ianone

If God the Son could be omnipresent as Spirit, and limited in the incarnation simultaneously, without being two persons, why can't the Father become a man, and yet still exist beyond the incarnation, and not be two persons? This isn't a hard concept to grapple with. You pointed out that the O difficulty arises in explaining why, if the God in Jesus is the Father, does Jesus pray to the Father. If Jesus is the Father, why pray to the Father? I believe the answer has to do with the kenosis (Philippians 2:6-11), when God willingly set aside the exercise of the divine prerogatives to take up a human existence, operating within the confines of an ordinary man. The deity of the Father was in Jesus, but latent in Him. In the incarnation, Jesus is distinct from the Father, not in His deity, but in His humanity. In the incarnation, Jesus must be spoken of as being distinct from the Father, because the Father is God beyond a human existence, while Jesus is God in a human existence.

26

Bushisms and misused phrases.

by IP_SEC in

ohhkay, .

you ever hear someone use a word or phrase that?s out of context but sounds like they word or phrase they intended?

for all intensive purposes = (correctly) for all intents and purposes .

Ianone

awwww ip, you made this thread cause of me didnt you

lol

26

Modalism vs. Trinitarianism (which one stands better against JW doctrine?)

by Ianone in

modalistic monarchianism, also known as modalism, is the view that god variously manifested himself as the father (primarily in the old testament), other times as the son (primarily from jesus?

conception to his ascension), and other times as the holy spirit (primarily after jesus?

ascension into heaven).

Ianone

Modalistic Monarchianism, also known as Modalism, is the view that God variously manifested Himself as the Father (primarily in the Old Testament), other times as the Son (primarily from Jesus? conception to His ascension), and other times as the Holy Spirit (primarily after Jesus? ascension into Heaven). God is not three Persons. Rather, Modalistic Monarchianism / Modalism teaches the God has simply revealed Himself in three different modes. Modalistic Monarchianism / Modalism is also known as Sabellianism, named after Sabellius, and influential early proponent of the view. Yet another aspect of Modalistic Monarchianism / Modalism / Sabellianism is Patripassianism, which is the view that it was God the Father who became incarnate, suffered, died, and was resurrected. Patripassianism essentially teaches that God the Father became His own Son.

I am sure you all know what trinitarianism is. hahaha, here it is just in case since your absence from the BORG, you have forgotten

Christology:

Modalism - (Modalistic Monarchianism) The belief that God is one, this one God has revealed Himself to mankind through various manifestations or modes, the manifestation (role) of the Father, the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. God has the ability to reveal Himself in different forms to His creation and at different times. I do not see how this can be interpreted as Polytheism, this Christology fits accordingly with the basic rules that interpret monotheism (belief in one God).

Oneness - Basic monarchianist modalism .

Trinitarianism - (Athanasianism) - probably the most popular but certainly not truthful, it believes that God is three seperate persons, God the Son, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit. I can't help but believeing this to be pure pagan polytheism (belief in multiple gods).

Arianism of Arius - (Jehovah's Witness and Unitarian) The Christological views of Arius (280?-336), a priest at

Subordinationism - Belief that one person in the Godhead is subordinate to or was created by another person in the Godhead. Of course this presupposes a belief in the plurality of persons in the Godhead (polytheism). In early Trinitarians, it surfaced as the belief that the Logos is the divine Son and is subordinate to the Father. This was the view of some Greek apologists, Tertullian, and Origen. Arianism is an extreme development of this doctrine (Jehovah's Witness and Unitarian). Also, the term applies to any belief that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father or the Son. Orthodox Trinitarians is expressed by the Nicene and Athanasian creeds theoretically rejects and form of subordinationism, but the tendency towards it remains. (Most of today's Trinitarians view Christ as subordinate to the Father, thus neo-Trinitarians contains the subordination doctrine.

Obviously, you can believe Jesus is God, without being a Trinitarian, so the whole argument that anti-Jesusists use is, oh your're one of those pagan Trinitarians. WRONG! Trnitarianism is pagan, but I'm not one of them, and Jesus is still God.

Now, I agree with the Watchtower teaching that trinitarianism is pagan Polytheism but it is clear that you can believe Jesus is God Almighty without being a trinitarian.

Further, I would like to add:

John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Notice that it doesn't say the greatest act of love is for a man to send his son to die for his friends?

The bible tells us that the greatest act of love is for a man himself, to die for his friends, so why would it be any different for God?

The greatest act of love for God would be for God to die for His beloved creation.

121

The Proof!!!!: The Use of Explosives on 911 at the World Trade Center Compl

by Ianone in

jw
friends

new video analysis from alex jones, absolute proof of wtc explosives, you must watch this!

the proof!!!!

: the use of explosives on 911 at the world trade center complex .

Ianone

what th eheck

121

The Proof!!!!: The Use of Explosives on 911 at the World Trade Center Compl

by Ianone in

jw
friends

new video analysis from alex jones, absolute proof of wtc explosives, you must watch this!

the proof!!!!

: the use of explosives on 911 at the world trade center complex .

Ianone

a livingstonemusic.net/article

AA 0077 [ghost] plane... administration error or no flight at all?

This began with a short film featured on this site, about American Airlines Flight number 0077 plane crash at the Pentagon, USA on September 11th, 2001. The short piece raised the question of the evidence supporting the official story that American Airlines Flight number 0077 was hijacked during flight to Los Angeles International Airport, detoured and flown into the Pentagon building.
If the film was correct in highlighting that there was no plane wreckage found at the Pentagon on 9/11, what indeed did crash into the Pentagon, and what indeed did happen to Flight number 0077 and the 64 human beings who were officially listed as Crew and Passengers?
You can view the film here.

On towards the US Government's Bureau of Transportation Statistics...

A search for all American Airlines scheduled flights departing from Washington Dulles International Airport on September 11th, 2001 showed no reference to Flight number 0077, the plane reportedly hijacked during flight to Los Angeles.
Flight number 0077 is a daily flight, however, it wasn't scheduled for flight on September 11th, 2001. I found that odd. No schedule for a flight which was reported to have taken place.
Maybe an administration error or oversight, or maybe I wasn't using the database properly..

Here is the full list of American Airlines scheduled flights departing from Washington Dulles International Airport on September 11th, 2001;

Airport: Washington, DC - Washington Dulles International (IAD)

Carrier Code	Date (MM/DD/YYYY)	Flight Number	Tail Number	Destination Airport	Actual Departure Time
AA	09/11/2001	0075	UNKNOW	LAX	0:00
AA	09/11/2001	0135	UNKNOW	LAX	0:00
AA	09/11/2001	0143	UNKNOW	LAX	0:00
AA	09/11/2001	0371	UNKNOW	DFW	0:00
AA	09/11/2001	0397	UNKNOW	DFW	0:00
AA	09/11/2001	0510	UNKNOW	DFW	0:00
AA	09/11/2001	0573	UNKNOW	DFW	0:00
AA	09/11/2001	0599	N871AA	DFW	7:49
AA	09/11/2001	0771	N3BFAA	SJU	6:57
AA	09/11/2001	0975	N3CAAA	MIA	7:34
AA	09/11/2001	1217	N2ANAA	ORD	6:26
AA	09/11/2001	1223	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
AA	09/11/2001	1229	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
AA	09/11/2001	1247	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
AA	09/11/2001	1309	UNKNOW	DFW	0:00
AA	09/11/2001	1319	UNKNOW	DFW	0:00
AA	09/11/2001	1361	N493AA	DFW	6:17
AA	09/11/2001	1787	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00

A search for all American Airlines scheduled flights departing from Washington Dulles International Airport on September 10th, 2001 showed Flight number 007 to have been scheduled and did depart.

Here is the full list of American Airlines scheduled flights departing from Washington Dulles International Airport on September 10th, 2001 - American Airlines Flight number 0077 is on this list -

Airport: Washington, DC - Washington Dulles International (IAD)

Carrier Code	Date (MM/DD/YYYY)	Flight Number	Tail Number	Destination Airport	Scheduled Departure Time
AA	09/10/2001	0075	N302AA	LAX	18:00
AA	09/10/2001	0077	N632AA	LAX	8:10
AA	09/10/2001	0135	N5ESAA	LAX	11:15
AA	09/10/2001	0143	N304AA	LAX	15:00
AA	09/10/2001	0371	N866AA	DFW	16:10
AA	09/10/2001	0397	N219AA	DFW	12:55
AA	09/10/2001	0510	UNKNOW	DFW	17:51
AA	09/10/2001	0573	N719AA	DFW	9:23
AA	09/10/2001	0599	N849AA	DFW	7:56
AA	09/10/2001	0771	N3BWAA	SJU	7:00
AA	09/10/2001	0975	N3BGAA	MIA	7:34
AA	09/10/2001	1217	N2BGAA	ORD	6:25
AA	09/10/2001	1223	N2CGAA	ORD	9:45
AA	09/10/2001	1229	N2DFAA	ORD	13:25
AA	09/10/2001	1247	N2AGAA	ORD	20:21
AA	09/10/2001	1309	N871AA	DFW	14:20
AA	09/10/2001	1319	N497AA	DFW	19:32
AA	09/10/2001	1361	N226AA	DFW	6:15
AA	09/10/2001	1787	N2BLAA	ORD	16:55

Here is the full list of American Airlines scheduled flights departing from Washington Dulles International Airport on September 9th, 2001 - American Airlines Flight number 0077 is also on this list -

Airport: Washington, DC - Washington Dulles International (IAD)

Carrier Code	Date (MM/DD/YYYY)	Flight Number	Tail Number	Destination Airport	Actual Departure Time
AA	09/09/2001	0075	N312AA	LAX	17:59
AA	09/09/2001	0077	N628AA	LAX	8:06
AA	09/09/2001	0135	N5DGAA	LAX	11:11
AA	09/09/2001	0143	N304AA	LAX	14:58
AA	09/09/2001	0371	N721AA	DFW	16:10
AA	09/09/2001	0397	N293AA	DFW	12:53
AA	09/09/2001	0510	N891AA	DFW	17:49
AA	09/09/2001	0573	N723AA	DFW	9:23
AA	09/09/2001	0599	N719AA	DFW	7:56
AA	09/09/2001	0771	N3BGAA	SJU	6:57
AA	09/09/2001	0975	N3ANAA	MIA	7:30
AA	09/09/2001	1217	N2BLAA	ORD	8:16
AA	09/09/2001	1223	N2AKAA	ORD	9:43
AA	09/09/2001	1229	N2CSAA	ORD	13:21
AA	09/09/2001	1247	N2DBAA	ORD	20:20
AA	09/09/2001	1309	UNKNOW	DFW	0:00
AA	09/09/2001	1319	N417AA	DFW	19:27
AA	09/09/2001	1361	N555AA	DFW	6:06
AA	09/09/2001	1787	N2ANAA	ORD	17:07

And the list for September 8th 2001, which includes American Airlines Flight number 0077

Airport: Washington, DC - Washington Dulles International (IAD)

Carrier Code	Date (MM/DD/YYYY)	Flight Number	Tail Number	Destination Airport	Actual Departure Time
AA	09/08/2001	0077	N618AA	LAX	8:06
AA	09/08/2001	0135	N5ESAA	LAX	11:09
AA	09/08/2001	0143	N302AA	LAX	15:01
AA	09/08/2001	0371	N873AA	DFW	16:06
AA	09/08/2001	0397	N245AA	DFW	12:54
AA	09/08/2001	0573	N875AA	DFW	9:22
AA	09/08/2001	0599	N877AA	DFW	7:52
AA	09/08/2001	0771	N3ANAA	SJU	6:56
AA	09/08/2001	0975	N3ATAA	MIA	7:33
AA	09/08/2001	1217	N2CBAA	ORD	6:57
AA	09/08/2001	1223	N2CUAA	ORD	9:44
AA	09/08/2001	1229	N2CBAA	ORD	13:25
AA	09/08/2001	1319	N287AA	DFW	19:30
AA	09/08/2001	1361	N467AA	DFW	6:15
AA	09/08/2001	1787	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00

Here is the full list of American Airlines scheduled flights departing from Washington Dulles International Airport on September 12th, 2001, the day after the attacks on America. American Airlines Flight number 0077 is on this list, even though all flights had been cancelled....

Airport: Washington, DC - Washington Dulles International (IAD)

Carrier Code	Date (MM/DD/YYYY)	Flight Number	Tail Number	Destination Airport	Actual Departure Time
AA	09/12/2001	0075	UNKNOW	LAX	0:00
AA	09/12/2001	0077	UNKNOW	LAX	0:00
AA	09/12/2001	0135	UNKNOW	LAX	0:00
AA	09/12/2001	0143	UNKNOW	LAX	0:00
AA	09/12/2001	0371	UNKNOW	DFW	0:00
AA	09/12/2001	0397	UNKNOW	DFW	0:00
AA	09/12/2001	0510	UNKNOW	DFW	0:00
AA	09/12/2001	0573	UNKNOW	DFW	0:00
AA	09/12/2001	0599	UNKNOW	DFW	0:00
AA	09/12/2001	0771	UNKNOW	SJU	0:00
AA	09/12/2001	0975	UNKNOW	MIA	0:00
AA	09/12/2001	1217	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
AA	09/12/2001	1223	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
AA	09/12/2001	1229	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
AA	09/12/2001	1247	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
AA	09/12/2001	1309	UNKNOW	DFW	0:00
AA	09/12/2001	1319	UNKNOW	DFW	0:00
AA	09/12/2001	1361	UNKNOW	DFW	0:00
AA	09/12/2001	1787	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00

So according to the US Government's Bureau of Transportation Statistics, American Airlines Flight number 0077 was not scheduled to fly, and indeed did not fly.
Or maybe the flights involved in the 911 attacks were not listed out of some sort of respect to the many innocent lives lost that day....

United Airlines flight number 0175 was the second hijacked plane to crash into the World Trade Centre Towers, New York on on September 11th, 2001.
A search for all United Airlines scheduled flights departing from Boston Logan International Airport on September 11th, 2001 showed that flight 0175 is listed and did indeed depart unaware of its fate.

Airport: Boston, MA - Logan International (BOS)

Carrier Code	Date (MM/DD/YYYY)	Flight Number	Tail Number	Destination Airport	Actual Departure Time
UA	09/11/2001	0051	UNKNOW	LAX	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0159	UNKNOW	SFO	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0161	UNKNOW	SFO	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0163	N526UA	SFO	6:57
UA	09/11/2001	0167	UNKNOW	SFO	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0169	UNKNOW	LAX	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0171	UNKNOW	SFO	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0173	UNKNOW	SFO	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0175	N612UA	LAX	7:58
UA	09/11/2001	0177	UNKNOW	LAX	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0199	UNKNOW	IAD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0211	N463UA	IAD	7:39
UA	09/11/2001	0223	UNKNOW	IAD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0317	UNKNOW	IAD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0420	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0503	N314UA	ORD	5:52
UA	09/11/2001	0505	N431UA	DEN	7:52
UA	09/11/2001	0507	N564UA	ORD	7:28
UA	09/11/2001	0509	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0515	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0519	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0523	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0531	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0575	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0583	N433UA	DEN	5:57
UA	09/11/2001	0595	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0701	UNKNOW	DEN	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0883	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0895	N461UA	ORD	8:24
UA	09/11/2001	0987	UNKNOW	JFK	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0999	UNKNOW	SFO	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	1015	UNKNOW	DEN	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	1051	UNKNOW	IAD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	1119	UNKNOW	DEN	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	1153	UNKNOW	IAD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	1411	UNKNOW	IAD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	1439	N356UA	ORD	6:26
UA	09/11/2001	1607	UNKNOW	DEN	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	1685	UNKNOW	IAD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	1690	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	1789	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	1877	N556UA	IAD	6:39
UA	09/11/2001	1879	UNKNOW	IAD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	1947	N435UA	IAD	0:00

Why was American Airlines Flight number 0077 not listed as a scheduled flight on September 11th 2001 when it was listed before and after 911? A simple administration error? Or did the flight never take place?

I looked at the remaining two hijacked flights. They were United Airlines Flight 0093, from Newark, New Jersey, to San Francisco, California, which crashed in rural southwest Pennsylvania, with 45 people on board and American Airlines Flight 0011, from Boston, Massachusetts, to Los Angeles, California, crashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center with 92 people on board.

Here is the full list of United Airlines scheduled flights departing from Newark, New Jersey Airport on September 11th, 2001 - United Airlines Flight 0093 is listed as a scheduled flight which departed for San Francisco.

Airport: Newark, NJ - Newark International (EWR)

Carrier Code	Date (MM/DD/YYYY)	Flight Number	Tail Number	Destination Airport	Actual Departure Time
UA	09/11/2001	0031	UNKNOW	DEN	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0075	UNKNOW	SFO	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0077	UNKNOW	SFO	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0079	UNKNOW	SFO	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0081	N520UA	SFO	6:56
UA	09/11/2001	0083	N402UA	LAX	6:54
UA	09/11/2001	0085	UNKNOW	LAX	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0087	UNKNOW	LAX	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0089	UNKNOW	LAX	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0091	UNKNOW	SFO	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0093	N591UA	SFO	8:01
UA	09/11/2001	0419	UNKNOW	DEN	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0425	UNKNOW	DEN	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0521	N523UA	DEN	6:40
UA	09/11/2001	0545	UNKNOW	DEN	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0635	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0637	N815UA	ORD	5:57
UA	09/11/2001	0639	N450UA	ORD	7:12
UA	09/11/2001	0641	N952UA	ORD	8:10
UA	09/11/2001	0643	N7297U	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0645	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0647	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0649	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0651	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0653	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0657	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0659	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0661	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0663	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	0665	N942UA	ORD	6:26
UA	09/11/2001	0907	UNKNOW	DEN	0:00
UA	09/11/2001	1007	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00

Here is the full list of American Airlines scheduled flights departing from Boston, Massachusetts Airport on September 11th, 2001 - United Airlines Flight 0011 is listed as a scheduled flight which departed for Los Angeles International Airport.

Airport: Boston, MA - Logan International (BOS)

Carrier Code	Date (MM/DD/YYYY)	Flight Number	Tail Number	Destination Airport	Actual Departure Time
AA	09/10/2001	0011	N321AA	LAX	7:41
AA	09/10/2001	0145	N5CVAA	SJC	10:57
AA	09/10/2001	0153	N221AA	ORD	8:29
AA	09/10/2001	0163	N5DVAA	LAX	15:23
AA	09/10/2001	0181	N624AA	LAX	10:59
AA	09/10/2001	0189	N3CEAA	SEA	8:44
AA	09/10/2001	0193	N315AA	SFO	15:23
AA	09/10/2001	0195	N308AA	SFO	8:58
AA	09/10/2001	0197	N334AA	SFO	17:12
AA	09/10/2001	0223	N319AA	LAX	17:47
AA	09/10/2001	0225	N642AA	SAN	18:03
AA	09/10/2001	0259	N631AA	SJC	19:45
AA	09/10/2001	0269	N630AA	SJC	7:53
AA	09/10/2001	0277	N3BMAA	SAN	9:26
AA	09/10/2001	0363	N418AA	AUS	17:25
AA	09/10/2001	0401	N622AA	SJU	12:15
AA	09/10/2001	0449	N269AA	MIA	8:45
AA	09/10/2001	0461	N464AA	DFW	6:37
AA	09/10/2001	0489	N3ASAA	ORD	10:56
AA	09/10/2001	0583	N573AA	DFW	11:52
AA	09/10/2001	0645	N3CHAA	JFK	6:03
AA	09/10/2001	1011	N295AA	ORD	19:25
AA	09/10/2001	1019	N061AA	SJU	6:57
AA	09/10/2001	1025	N568AA	ORD	16:26
AA	09/10/2001	1079	N5DLAA	DFW	15:40
AA	09/10/2001	1101	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
AA	09/10/2001	1115	N3AWAA	MIA	14:52
AA	09/10/2001	1117	N5CDAA	DFW	21:04
AA	09/10/2001	1121	UNKNOW	DFW	0:00
AA	09/10/2001	1135	N2DFAA	ORD	6:55
AA	09/10/2001	1141	N430AA	ORD	14:16
AA	09/10/2001	1285	N505AA	DFW	9:54
AA	09/10/2001	1353	UNKNOW	ORD	0:00
AA	09/10/2001	1367	N050AA	MIA	19:44
AA	09/10/2001	1547	N315AA	MCO	7:19
AA	09/10/2001	1555	N3ALAA	ORD	5:59
AA	09/10/2001	1629	N3BKAA	ORD	12:11
AA	09/10/2001	1633	N3CGAA	ORD	17:54
AA	09/10/2001	1663	N545AA	DFW	7:01
AA	09/10/2001	1711	N076AA	MIA	6:04
AA	09/10/2001	1757	N3BBAA	ORD	7:39
AA	09/10/2001	1797	N572AA	DFW	13:26
AA	09/10/2001	1811	N2CSAA	DCA	6:34
AA	09/10/2001	1813	N2CSAA	DCA	11:16
AA	09/10/2001	1821	N552AA	ORD	9:16
AA	09/10/2001	1837	N2CBAA	DCA	9:31
AA	09/10/2001	1849	N407AA	ORD	15:15
AA	09/10/2001	1857	N628AA	DFW	8:13
AA	09/10/2001	1859	N2CSAA	DCA	16:55
AA	09/10/2001	1861	N2CBAA	DCA	14:30

There were 64 people reported to be on board American Airlines Flight 0077. They are all dead. The exclusion of Flight 0077 from the US Government's Bureau of Transportation Statistics database is either;

an administration error or oversight or;
due to Flight 0077 not being actually scheduled to fly at all on the morning of September 11th 2001.

If it emerges that it is the former, then a simple amendment of the database is all that's called for. If it turns out to be the latter, how exactly did the listed crew and passengers die?

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121

The Proof!!!!: The Use of Explosives on 911 at the World Trade Center Compl

by Ianone in

jw
friends

new video analysis from alex jones, absolute proof of wtc explosives, you must watch this!

the proof!!!!

: the use of explosives on 911 at the world trade center complex .

Ianone

so what comes after 'Senior Member?"

121

The Proof!!!!: The Use of Explosives on 911 at the World Trade Center Compl

by Ianone in

jw
friends

new video analysis from alex jones, absolute proof of wtc explosives, you must watch this!

the proof!!!!

: the use of explosives on 911 at the world trade center complex .

Ianone

hahaha, Nancy, nice try, no cigar

121

The Proof!!!!: The Use of Explosives on 911 at the World Trade Center Compl

by Ianone in

jw
friends

new video analysis from alex jones, absolute proof of wtc explosives, you must watch this!

the proof!!!!

: the use of explosives on 911 at the world trade center complex .

Ianone

First-hand Accounts of Underground Explosions In The North Tower

This article from Chief Engineer magazine presents eyewitness account of the moments after the first plane crash, and describes evidence of large explosions in the lobby, parking garage and subbasement levels of WTC-1 at the time of the crash

It contains some fascinating first-hand accounts of the events of September 11 as recounted by operating engineers on the scene. One of the most remarkable is the story of Mike Pecoraro, who was working in the 6th sub-basement of the North Tower when the first plane hit. Here are some excerpts:

Stationary Engineer Mike Pecoraro

At about 6:45 he went to the mechanical shop in the second subbasement, ate his breakfast and chatted with his co-workers who were also arriving for the normal 8:00 a.m. beginning of their shift. Mike?s assignment that day would be to continue constructing a gantry that would be used to pull the heads from the 2,500 ton chillers, located in the 6th sub- basement level of the tower. 49,000 tons of refrigeration equipment were located in the lower level of the tower. The 2,500 ton units were the smallest in use...

Deep below the tower, Mike Pecoraro was suddenly interrupted in his grinding task by a shake on his shoulder from his co-worker. ?Did you see that?? he was asked. Mike told him that he had seen nothing. ?You didn?t see the lights flicker??, his co-worker asked again. ?No,? Mike responded, but he knew immediately that if the lights had flickered, it could spell trouble. A power surge or interruption could play havoc with the building?s equipment. If all the pumps trip out or pulse meters trip, it could make for a very long day bringing the entire center?s equipment back on-line.

Mike told his co-worker to call upstairs to their Assistant Chief Engineer and find out if everything was all right. His co-worker made the call and reported back to Mike that he was told that the Assistant Chief did not know what happened but that the whole building seemed to shake and there was a loud explosion. They had been told to stay where they were and ?sit tight? until the Assistant Chief got back to them. By this time, however, the room they were working in began to fill with a white smoke. ?We smelled kerosene,? Mike recalled, ?I was thinking maybe a car fire was upstairs?, referring to the parking garage located below grade in the tower but above the deep space where they were working.

The two decided to ascend the stairs to the C level, to a small machine shop where Vito Deleo and David Williams were supposed to be working. When the two arrived at the C level, they found the machine shop gone.

?There was nothing there but rubble, ?Mike said. ?We?re talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press ? gone!? The two began yelling for their co-workers, but there was no answer. They saw a perfect line of smoke streaming through the air. ?You could stand here,? he said, ?and two inches over you couldn?t breathe. We couldn?t see through the smoke so we started screaming.? But there was still no answer.

The two made their way to the parking garage, but found that it, too, was gone. ?There were no walls, there was rubble on the floor, and you can?t see anything? he said.

They decided to ascend two more levels to the building?s lobby. As they ascended to the B Level, one floor above, they were astonished to see a steel and concrete fire door that weighed about 300 pounds, wrinkled up ?like a piece of aluminum foil? and lying on the floor. ?They got us again,? Mike told his co-worker, referring to the terrorist attack at the center in 1993. Having been through that bombing, Mike recalled seeing similar things happen to the building?s structure. He was convinced a bomb had gone off in the building.

Consider the implications of what Mr. Pecoraro describes: At this point the only overt damage to the building was the plane crash some 95 floors above, which could not have caused violent explosions underground. Since the towers were anchored at the base to the bedrock the shaking caused by the crash would have been greatest close to the crash site, getting progressively weaker as it approached the rigid attachment at the bottom. Yet the underground damage he describes can not have been the result of a mere shaking - nothing short of an explosion could reduce the contents of a machine shop to rubble.

Damage to the North Tower Lobby

The damage to the parking garage and lobby simultaneous with the first plane impact are also indicative of the effects of high explosives, with widespread blast damage and fine dust covering the entire scene. Below is a link to a video clip of the WTC-1 lobby area just after the first plane crash, as seen in the documentary "9/11" made by Jules and Gedeon Naudet:

The narrator claims that he "later learned" that there had been an explosion caused by fuel pouring down an elevator shaft, but the lobby shows none of the soot or fuel residue we would expect from such an explosion. Instead we see blown-out windows and a fine dry dust covering the entire lobby, very much the signature of high explosives. Similar damage to the parking garages and subbasements can only be explained by pre-placed explosive charges that were detonated at the moment of the plane's impact.

Another account of underground blasts

Construction worker Phillip Morelli describes being thrown to the ground by two explosions while in the fourth subbasement of the North Tower. The first, which threw him to the ground and seemed to coincide with the plane crash, was followed by a larger blast that again threw him to the ground and this time blew out walls. He then made his way to the South Tower and was in the subbasement there when the second plane hit, again associated with a powerful underground blast. This is one of a series of interviews with WTC survivors done by NY1 News: http://ny1.com/pages/RRR/911special_survivors.html

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