cedars:.
your original thread got too far off track so i decided to refresh it for my question.. i'm wondering what you think about anthony flew (rip).
incidently to james_woods (if you read this thread):.
Cedars:
Your original thread got too far off track so I decided to refresh it for my question.
I'm wondering what you think about Anthony Flew (rip). (Or do you? )
Incidently to James_Woods (if you read this thread):
It's my understanding that Einstein was a deist, as was Charles Darwin.
~Binadub
or so says ronald weinland;.
may 27, 2012april 29, 2012. as readers of this site know, may 27, 2012, is the time that i have stated as being the date jesus christ will return as king of kings over all government on this earth.
for such an event to come to pass, the trumpets of revelation must all sound, the united states and dollar collapse, the ten nations of europe arise to fulfill the final revival of the holy roman empire, and russia with china must unite against europe in wwiii.. .... http://www.ronaldweinland.com/.
The guy is expressing his disappointment now . . . ~Binadub
tomorrow the 22nd i will be 85 years old .
good wishes only please,remember if you say something nasty i will cry.
and my mum told me it is a sin to cry on your birthday .
Happy Birthday, Grace.
Treat yourself to something special.
~Binadub (Ros)
drop its teaching on paradise earth.. the primary issue facing the watchtower results from it's teaching that members will never die, but live forever on this earth in paradise.
this teaching is cause of most of the doctrinal failures, and will be its eventual demise.. the promise of never dying is one of the foremost motivations for people that join the religion, and the message of living forever in paradise is compelling.
however, it is also the watchtower's achilles heel, as it forces false predictions of the nearness of the end.
jwfacts: Thanks for your thoughts.
What is ironic is that the Leaders, the GB, are all of the Anointed class, so expect to die and go to heaven. They use the carrot of never dying to control the emotions of the followers, yet are above such fears themselves.
That fear is manifest in the doctrine of other religions as well. Some Evangelicals teach about a rapture, where they won't die as such, but be raptured straight to a spirit body.
Yet does it seem the GBs and other so-called JW annointeds do fear dying as we know it. People like Russell, Rutherford, Knorr, Fred Franz and other late GBs made every effort to sustain health and live as long as possible. I seem to remember hearing that Knorr in his dying days felt great disappointment that he would not survive Armageddon.
Like the Evangelical "rapture," if the professed annointed ones would survive Armageddon, they do not expect to die, they expect to be "taken." As I recall, they compare it to the way Jehovah "took" Enoch and Elijah to heaven.
I've enjoyed the comments of everyone in this thread. Good topic.
~Binadub
drop its teaching on paradise earth.. the primary issue facing the watchtower results from it's teaching that members will never die, but live forever on this earth in paradise.
this teaching is cause of most of the doctrinal failures, and will be its eventual demise.. the promise of never dying is one of the foremost motivations for people that join the religion, and the message of living forever in paradise is compelling.
however, it is also the watchtower's achilles heel, as it forces false predictions of the nearness of the end.
jw facts:
human fear of death.
Excellent point and something that I totally overlooked. What is the url of the topic.
I host an old-fashioned threaded discussion forum on the Channel C domain (www.channelc.org). I posted the topic in two parts because it was so long. I was mainly addressing it to people who even after leaving the WT religion still believe in salvation on this planet (i.e. Bible Students and some exJWs).
The links to the discussion I referred to (I'm 'Ros' on Channel C) are here:
http://www.channelc.org/ChCForum/forum/index.php?action=display&forumid=1&msgid=9527
and
http://www.channelc.org/ChCForum/forum/index.php?action=display&forumid=1&msgid=9528
~Binadub (aka Ros)
drop its teaching on paradise earth.. the primary issue facing the watchtower results from it's teaching that members will never die, but live forever on this earth in paradise.
this teaching is cause of most of the doctrinal failures, and will be its eventual demise.. the promise of never dying is one of the foremost motivations for people that join the religion, and the message of living forever in paradise is compelling.
however, it is also the watchtower's achilles heel, as it forces false predictions of the nearness of the end.
Coincidentally, I just posted a long discussion on my forum about this very topic, the core doctrine of JWs that appeals is the hope of never dying but living on this Earth for most. My approach was to detail how illogical and contrary to reasoning it is to believe in eternal physical life on this planet.
My conclusion revolves around the theory that the "new earth" for salvation appeal boils down to one thing: human fear of death. And I think that is what the WT has successfully appealed to from its inception.
~Binadub
at some point in my life, i would really like to write a book about my jw experience and jw teachings in general.
however, if i did, i would preferably like to write from a unique angle that makes the book a little different from the many others out there.
i can imagine some being quite self-indulgent, and i would want to avoid that wherever possible.. i must confess, due to a variety of circumstances i am not well read when it comes to all the various ex-jw books out there.
I have thought about writing a book to try to convey to average people what it is like to be a half-way intelligent person, yet swayed to believe incredible things, such as the firm belief we held in my pre-1975 JW past that WE were never going to die. WE were going to make the Earth a paradise.
One of the most valuable things I took away from my JW experience is knowing personally what it is like to seriously believe incredible doctrines. It gives me a greater understanding (or at least I perceive it to be) of things like why a nation of people might follow a leader like Hitler or even Bin Laaden.
On this forum, years ago, I quoted some excerpts from Hassan's Combatting Cult Mind Control, which I thought were very apt for comparing to Jehovah's Witnesses. I forewarned readers before I started quoting that "remember, this is not about Jehovah's Witness, it's about the Moonies." But the apologists still didn't remember that and tried to rebut the quotes as if I were applying them to JWs? It was most interesting. I even responded, "Who's talking about Jehovah's Witnesses?" I have to admit, the comparisons were indisputable. If you're trying to reach JWs who won't read "apostate" literature, I highly recommend giving them a copy of Combatting Cult Mind Control.
Penton's second edition of Apocalypse Delayed was published in 1997. And btw, he posts on the Channel C forum if anyone is interested in discussion with him or would like to get a copy of his book.
~Binadub
in my own research i've found that scholars are divided as to when jesus was baptised.
26 and 29 ad seem to be the most reccomended dates.
i was wondering if anyone could offer info on the points of difference between the two or links to further discussion on the reasons for holding to either date.. thanks in advance..
There are variables in the historical accounts, so no one can be sure. Luke 3:1-2 states:
Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of the region of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias tetrarch of Abilene, in the highpriesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
Luke says Jesus was about 30 years old when he was baptized, and Matthew and Mark say he was born during the reign of Herod the Great who is deemed to have died about 4 BCE, although some scholars say it could have been as late as 2 BCE and others as early as 6 BCE. If Herod died in 4-3 BC that could lend to a baptism date of AD26-27 AD if he was 30 years old (or about). There is also no certainty whether his ministry was 1 year or 3 years. John's Gospel suggests a ministry of about a year, and the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke) suggest about 3 years. So it really cannot be certain.
There's a quite good article on this whole subject in Wikipedia on the subject of Chronology of Jesus at this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_Jesus
~Binadub
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh7viwp5kre.
Thank you, Amelia! That was fantastic and sooo delightful! What an amazing young woman and dog.
Great program.
~Binadub
so i thought ill check to see how "strong" the things are i believe in.
im still hooked to allot of the wts's teachings, and i still believe in allot of them , even thought i have enough questions of my own to start my own bible school.. so what would you ask me as a "witness" now, so i can try and defend my faith and by doing so, that i might learn something about myself, and what i believe in..
mrbunyrabit:
You have started a thread that will go way beyond what you will be able to address because it will bring up so many issues.
However, the question I will ask you is one that eventually became a big issue for me when I was a JW starting to have serious doubts:
Probably the most appealing doctrine that Jehovah's Witnesses use to entice new converts is their hope of never dying but surviving into a new earth that will be cultivated back to Edenic paradise during the thousand years. I asked elders, overseers and pioneers how we prove that from the Bible, especially since Revelation 20:7-21:5 seems explicit that none of that happens until after the thousand years has ended. How would you prove to me that resurrections, judgment, and cultivating the earth back to paradise is done by people during the thousand years?
On your reply to another poster about shunning, you replied with a question, doesn't the Bible admonish one to not even eat with such a one.
Who? The scripture says:
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
A disfellowshipped person or "apostate" does not claim to be a JW brother.
On evolution, there are two kinds of evolution (actually more than that, but for this response two): That which evidence is scientifically observable, and then there is that which is dogmatic (just like a lot of religion, keeps changing to make discovery fit theory). Many of the most ardent supporters of evolution as one sweeping theory believe it far more on faith than they admit. When you say you don't believe in evolution, I presume you may mean atheist evolution theory as opposed to "old-earth creationism" (as opposed to "new-earth creationism"). The "Punctuated Equilibrium" theory that Stephen Jay Gould promoted lends (imo) to the possibility of a non-literal Genesis biblical creationism.
~Binadub
