rune

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Posts by rune

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  22

  I am moved

  by rune in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i stayed up all night to see it... the buildings out the windows of my apartment shimmer in the distance as a wave of golden light rises from the horizon, painting the sky glorious shades of blue, violet and orange.

  the darkness recedes, creeping through the forests before the city.

  light, especially a sunrise, holds a special place in my heart.... what moves you?

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  rune

  Thank you! You all have made great replies, I appreciate it
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  160

  Why ? Why? WHY???

  by rune in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.

  i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.

  and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.

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  rune

  LittleToe: Yes, saying I am ignorant is all fine and good, but I would appreciate more examples of this rather than you just repeating it over and over. If you mean ignorant of spirit, save your breath...er, typing.
  

  You're an intelligent kid. I'm sure you can work it out, and demonstrate that you're more than a psuedo-intellectual.

  I'm not sure how many more times I'm going to repeat myself on this issue, it gets tiresome and boring playing broken record player with people. I am not here to flaunt intelligence or gain respect/admiration of anyone. So, I am not interested in earning your or whoever's title of 'true intellectual'. This, coming from a person who does not think the burden of proof lies on the one who holds the beliefs in addition to just living. I'm afraid things just don't work that way for me. Even if science showed you every function of what you experience and think down to the last neuron and nerve fibre, you would still argue spirit exists without proof because you and other believers just say it is an exception to this rule and must be experienced. That is complete crap (with the exception of course of the %0.0000000000000000000001 chance of it being true, or whatever the real figure is - wouldn't want to confuse you on my beliefs now and have another giant post argument with you).

  Forget I asked about the rat comment, it seems getting you to do a simple thing like explain why you said 'I smell a rat' is not something you can do for me.
  

  On the contrary, I considered them. They have a modicum of merit.

  And they have a modicum of merit why? You don't give backup or reasons behind your statements. Examples, man, examples. Please, it is not worth my time to ask someone to do something over and over. The exception being the next part of your post, but if you continue to reply to me, when you make a statement please try to give an example at least. So let me address each and every one to allay these apparent concerns of yours that I am not giving peoples' answers due attention by clarifying my reponses to you.
  

  Your reply to Dansk: You were too busy putting down on him to listen to what he had to say. I've still not seen a comment from you that indicates any understanding of what he wrote. He's a personal friend of mine, he's ill, and both those facts are common knowledge on this board. I hope you'll forgive my defensiveness of him. I simply won't tolerate him being treated like that, without comment, especially when he's over twice your age and has been through things that you can't even begin to imagine.

  You took my reply to Dansk completely out of context, and even so I rephrased several things I had said in further posts out of consideration for your comments. 'Wacko', and 'sap' were in hypothetical cases. 'Deluded' was the only comment I directly applied to him, my brother and so many others. I stand behind it, though I have digressed that this delusion can be very beneficial to one's life. Take it as you may, but it was not an insult, and as I have pointed out many times, people should not be putting their feelings on the line in a discussion like this. I feel as though this thread is going to have the same information repeated four to five times before you interpret any of the messages I'm trying to get across. So no, this invalidates that entire comment of yours because I was not putting him down. His comment was rather simple:

  1. Many people do believe in the spiritual because they are hopeful. 2. I don't believe in the same thing as some, but I believe in something else! (spirit)
  3. You won't believe me because you haven't experienced it yet! (in other words no proof available)
  4. The universe came out of consciousness! (completely unfounded statement without basis, no proof whatsoever, no way of knowing of this for sure... As I said, I have a brother who says the EXACT same things after doing psilocybin mushrooms 20+ times.)
  5. You think we're all like you! (He didn't understand the context of my post at all, as so many of you do not)
  6. Life isn't unsolvable! Some people think they have solved it! (So what? They could all be wrong, and deluded, as I have suggested.) 7. I am alive from the spirit!! Just because you haven't felt it, you don't believe in it. You might feel it someday, or in some other life. (hinting at unfounded belief of afterlife)
  8. Instead of believing mainstream religion, I have come up with my own ideas on spirituality. Of course I'm just a lowly, humble apprentice yadda yadda.

  See? Now we have a tedious description of Dansk's post for what, for me to prove my understanding to you, when it was plainly obvious in my replies. This is not what I want. If you truly cannot grasp the concepts I refer to in my posts or are incapable of stepping down from your pedestal for a moment to consider ideas that conflict your long journey through life, then don't read or reply to them any further. This is not a productive use of my time. I have already said at least once that this discussion does not need to be taken to heart, and that simply considering what I am saying does not mean I am trying to convert you nor will it change you in any way if you do not wish it to. That's what being self-convinced is all about, is it not?

  Your reply to me regarding the "smell of Africa": Sorry dude, but that one went straight over your head, didn't it? *** (Just to add an allegory - have you ever smelt Africa? I have, and it has entered my blood and captured my soul. Unless you've been to Africa I suspect you haven't the faintest notion of what I'm talking about.)

  You honestly think your Africa comment was that sophisticated? Your delusion of it 'entering your soul' (the soul - no proof, not a hint) is very simple, and I really had nothing to say on it. Now I've had to say it's a delusion, which will you probably now take as an insult. Are you satisfied? Yes, new experiences certainly are something. But you didn't understand what I meant by mentioning the olfactory senses. There is only a certain range of variance that the human senses can pick up. That means, there is only so much that can be experienced. If someone has experienced a wide enough variation of things, then they can easily surmise something they haven't experienced yet exactly. If you disagree, that's a shame, but there is nothing else to take from that short comment. Experience can be skewed of course, by internalized interpretation, perhaps even to the point of altering perception. Terrific, I really don't care if you turned a regular trip to Africa into a magical wonderland experience. It has nothing to do with me.
  

  You "appear" too quick to brush aside different opinions with little consideration of them. I'm not the only one to notice and point out your condescending manner. I would have thought it was clear enough, by now, that this is what people are taking issue with.

  Oh, well, since you have a condescending manner too, I guess we're about even. However, I didn't realize I had one at all. Perhaps this is because when I write that is not how I feel; that is to say, when I am replying I do not feel as if I am 'talking down' to anyone for any reason or for anything to do with their denomination - not sex, not age, not race - with the exception of course of belief structures, since the discussion directly relates to that. Clear enough? Have I not said already that people are taking this far too seriously and in the wrong direction from the intended purpose of this thread? I have almost had my fill of repeating myself, truly.
  

  You appear to be a bright kid (and I mean that without any tone of condescension), albeit a little narrow in focus. You could get so much further with a minor change in the tone of your language.
  Honestly, if I didn't care I wouldn't bother posting to you. I can only think of one other person who I attempted this with, in recent times, but he no-longer posts here. I would hate to see you get overcome by your ego, too.

  Narrow in focus - yes, it is true, I will not ever in my entire life submit to irrational belief without proof, but I will also not deny the existence of yours or any beliefs 100% because that is the whole angle of sitting on the fence - you cannot know what is true and therefore only look to the clues that provide you with a vague direction about what has the most chance of being true. There is no logical reason for me to submit to blind faith, unless emotions overtook me and I became hopeless & depressed (or if my future wife [whoever she may be] felt really strongly that I should be a part of her beliefs [still, I would be playing along, but for love's sake I see it as worth it so long as it doesn't screw with anyone's life badly - i.e., No Witness Membership]). Then I would probably believe anything that made me feel better. But I am going to try to make certain that this never happens. Life is wonderful, and full of amazing and terrible things that intrigue and horrify me all at once. Overcome by my ego? I would think that would cause me to post even more.

  I always take care. You take care too, ...LittleToe.
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  160

  Why ? Why? WHY???

  by rune in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.

  i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.

  and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.

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  rune

  just because you reply doesn't mean you've listened, rather it shows a great deal about how little you've comprehended.

  LittleToe: So replying to someone shows how little you know? That doesn't make any sense to me, for if I comprehended plenty of it but you didn't understand my reply, you just take that impression from it. If you don't understand me, then you don't know how much I took away from what I'm replying too...it's that simple. What did you mean then when you said you 'smell a rat'? I think the possibility is very strong that you didn't understand my replies, and weren't willing to consider them. If you disagree, I ask that you point out specific instances where it is clear that I did not comprehend a lot about a post I was replying to.
• 
  160

  Why ? Why? WHY???

  by rune in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.

  i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.

  and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.

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  2. 
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• 

  rune

  LittleToe: Obviously you did listen enough to decide to make that mock post. Are you saying you don't understand what I write? It seems that way, regardless. Feel free to exclude yourself from the discussion if this is the problem. Nancy Drake? Are you referring to my recent thread in which she thought I was someone named Terry? You are mistaken.
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  22

  I am moved

  by rune in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i stayed up all night to see it... the buildings out the windows of my apartment shimmer in the distance as a wave of golden light rises from the horizon, painting the sky glorious shades of blue, violet and orange.

  the darkness recedes, creeping through the forests before the city.

  light, especially a sunrise, holds a special place in my heart.... what moves you?

  1. 
  2. 
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  rune

  Those are some very diverse and interesting replies. True kindness, (in)justice, love, beauty...there is so much in this world to appreciate.

  (And hmm no sorry I'm not Terry, my name is Daniel.)
• 
  160

  Why ? Why? WHY???

  by rune in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.

  i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.

  and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.

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  2. 
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• 

  rune

  teejay: frenchbabyface put it well. Perhaps we are not on the same journey, nor am I in the same state of mind you were when you supposedly thought you were in a "comfortable position of KNOWING" as you say. As well, I am not sure why it is coming across that I think I absolutely know everything for certain. When I, or hopefully anyone, makes a statement, it is a theoretical assumption rather than a statement of certainty. In a direct discussion, arguments are put forth, and the rebuttal tries to show how the argument is not solid. If I can think of something I see as a good rebuttal for what someone has said, I will say it, hoping that they will think of something to disprove what I have said, and so the cycle continues. This is how a discussion like this can help people think. If everyone just states their views and then accepts the others' views without challenging them, there is little to gain of understanding. And so, yes, I am sincerely interested in it, and I attempt to achieve it in the fashion I see as best. Unfortunately it does not seem some are open to it. I have a brother who reacts in a similar fashion. Some people cannot hold their emotions firm while engaging in an objective debate; they start to believe that the rebuttal is actually attack on their person simply because their argument from their mind was brought under fire, that it somehow relates to them being stupid or foolish - when this is not the case at all. The only thing foolish about it would be to believe that your views are so great that any argument against them is an insult or absurd. Empty heads are not required in this case. In this manner, a debate results in collective thinking, rather than each one taking the others' information away by themselves and making what they can of it. Your question was not without basis however, given the words I have had with a few other people here - in fact it was necessary that someone asked it to further clarify my position here, so I thank you for doing so.
• 
  22

  I am moved

  by rune in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i stayed up all night to see it... the buildings out the windows of my apartment shimmer in the distance as a wave of golden light rises from the horizon, painting the sky glorious shades of blue, violet and orange.

  the darkness recedes, creeping through the forests before the city.

  light, especially a sunrise, holds a special place in my heart.... what moves you?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  rune

  I stayed up all night to see it... the buildings out the windows of my apartment shimmer in the distance as a wave of golden light rises from the horizon, painting the sky glorious shades of blue, violet and orange. The darkness recedes, creeping through the forests before the city. Light, especially a sunrise, holds a special place in my heart...

  what moves you?
• 
  160

  Why ? Why? WHY???

  by rune in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.

  i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.

  and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  rune

  frenchbabyface/Dansk: Love is undeniably important, and the human body has been proven to be able to bring about remarkable effect in itself when the proper stimuli are applied. Mysticism or not, support from caring friends and belief you can make it through something are definitely not useless - and you are trying to hold on to life! What could be more important? Few if any things. I never meant to denounce anything you were attempting to do in such a way as to overcome this terrible malady. Besides, my life is not threatened - what could I know?

  formerout: My mental well-being has been tried and true through many things, so no one needs to worry about that. My questions were purely an intellectual endeavour. I am not twisting anything into something negative. Perhaps if you feel such negativity emanating from my words, that is your contempt for me or the way I say things that causes you to think like this - who can know? I was looking for a little understanding, perhaps, if there was any to be gained from posing these questions. Some people have made some pretty interesting points that have made me think so far. My impression of you is based solely on the words you have spoken here, as that is all I know of you. It is clear you are taking offense, but whether you are angry, sad, frustrated, or neutral is unclear, so I do not think about this - I suggest in the future you do the same.
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  40

  Anyone raised a Witness and broke free?

  by rune in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello, my name's daniel and i'm new to the forum.... i was raised a witness for the first 14 years of my life and then finally got out when my dad turned atheist...i live in ottawa, ontario of canada... i'm 21 now... still kind of unaccustomed to the world at large, if you catch my drift.

  my msn is [email protected] if anyone wants to chat.

  nice meeting you all

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  rune

  hahaha... I have read all your replies. You are great people. If anyone is interested in seeing my presentation slides, message me with an e-mail or instant message me on Yahoo! or MSN.

  Yahoo: dan_someone2005

  MSN: [email protected]
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  11

  Group promotes international friendships among women

  by jgnat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "it's a small world after all....".

  i discovered this neat association on one of my browsing expeditions today.

  this is my idea to end war; make friends, one at a time, until there is nobody left to fight.

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  rune

  Most things are a choice...it's nice that you can actually meet people through that site by flying to the locations where they have gatherings. (That is, if you weren't capable of finding a community of women to meet already, for free...and can afford a plane ticket.)

  I've hooked up with a few people from around the world through the net, though they came here - it didn't cost me a cent. :)