blacksheep

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Posts by blacksheep

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  37

  Do you get disappointed if no one responds?

  by Larry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  writing should be for our own edification - a personal cleansing, therapeutic at the least.

  if you write for other people's approval, you will be disappointed, especially when you share your thoughts on the 'net.

  i've seen many folks get 'burn-out' from these boards b/c they don't get the expected respond to their post.

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  blacksheep

  I think you are right on about the approval seeking. I still have vestiges of that (maybe EVERYONE does, whether JW or not), although as time goes by, I feel it less and less.

  The only thing I think I did for MYSELF, not for anyone else, or to show how "theocratic" I was to others, was to read quite a bit from old watcher/awake periodicals. We had quite a set at home when I was a teenager; I know I spent a lot of time perusing the various articles. Just for my own knowledge. (I hated service/generally disliked meetings).

  Funny. I think that very activity REALLY helped me come to terms with the inconsistency, the periodic changes in doctrine and the various changes due to social pressures the WBTS had to contend with. For example, check out their comments about women being raped. Just a few years back, the JW literature basically implicated MOTHERS treating sons badly as the reason for their anger, and subsequent rape of women! Also, women were guilty of wearing seductive clothing, which obviously enticed poor men into raping them. Good grief!!!!!! Obviously, the society's position on this issue has HAD to change over the years, but is very revealing. I think by reading thru their literature, with an open and inquisitive mind, I came to the obvious conclusion that it's NOT the "TRUTH." Not even close.
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  65

  How Many Here Have Been Shunned?

  by Reborn2002 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as most of you already know, the jehovah's witnesses are covering an article in their august kingdom ministry to be discussed the weeks of 8/19 and 8/26 which details how they are to shun and avoid those who are no longer members of their organization, even immediate family members.. .

  undoubtedly this article has been written to reinforce to the rank&file jehovah's witnesses the shunning policy, so as to tighten the ranks and prevent members from having the opportunity to learn the abundant contradictions and hypocrisies found within watchtower doctrine and practice from any who may have left.. this policy also serves to divide families and attempt to shame or abuse those whom have chosen to no longer be jehovah's witnesses, for whatever reason.. that much is obvious.

  in recent days this topic has been discussed in detail in various threads.

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  blacksheep

  I'm not TECHNICALLY da'd or df'd, but my JW relatives (including mom/sister) pretty much shun me. I've built my own life over the last 15 years which really doesn't include much contact at all with them, so it's not a major loss. However, since the birth of my first child (and second, due in 3 weeks), both mom/sis have tried some awkward, and I mean, AWKWARD, communications. I suspect with the article quoted in the first post, they'll probably try to cut off communication altogether.

  The problem is, they want to contact me (at least for the children) I believe in their heart, but the cult is telling them how they should think and feel. They therefore try to throw out "hints" or awkward manipulative tactics to get me to change, or to show some interest in coming back into the fold, but I show none. Further, I'll not tolerate their silly efforts to visit the children ON THEIR TERMS ONLY. They've made it all but clear that they think my children, growing up without "Jehovah" are pretty much doomed, while my sister's brainwashed Dub children who are floating along til Armageddon, will live in a beautiful paradise....

  No thanks. Yes, it hurts. I love my mother and my sister. But those people aren't my mother and my sister. They are acting like robots. You cannot have a meaningful relationship with a robot. Period.
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  77

  I MAY HAVE HIT BOTTOM

  by BONEZZ in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought i'd hit it several times before...as i have been thru the divorce over the past couple of years...lost all my so-called friends...lost my belief in what i thought was the "truth"....and now my own loving daughter, being the good little dub she is has told me she doesn't want me to walk her down the aisle at her wedding.

  she told me today at lunch.

  i almost threw up.

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  blacksheep

  I'm stunned. I'm dealing with my own JW family hangups, but I cannot imagine what hurt your daughter's decision must cause you. What good can possibly come from her not allowing you the privilege any father of a daughter would look forward to? I've skimmed a lot of the responses, including your replies. You sound like a very healthy person and are accepting this like the much bigger person that you are (bigger than the JWs). I wish this kind of overt family destruction could be exposed to the world at large. The JWs are such hypocrites when it comes to their notions of "love." What your daughter's been brainwashed to do is a good example of this....

  Anyway, all I can say is that deep down, it's your daughter's loss. As she walks down the aisle alone and has to live with that reality for the rest of her life, hopefully somewhere at some point in time an emotional chord will strike. I mean, I've known women who were devasted that their dear fathers were no longer living to give them away...here she has a very loving father who she's painfully shunning and depriving simply because of man-made beliefs. She'll have to live with that. Although I'm not remotely suggesting you wish her any ill will, that's the only thing I can offer. I know when my JW family seems to lack a heart, that's the only philosophical conclusion I can come to. Well, I'm probably not much help here.

  You sound like a great, loving father. This religion makes me so angry.

  Take care....and know that there are others out there who share your pain...

  Blacksheep
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  6

  The Shunning Paradox?

  by blacksheep in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i am in the midst of continuing bizarre hot/cold treatment from the jw members of my family, a thought occurred to me.

  if my jw family members don't like what i do, feel i've been led down the wrong path, and generally "disapprove" of me, why the heck not just avoid me altogether???

  why come into and out of my life in whenever they deem it desireable?.

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  blacksheep

  Thanks for your comments everyone. Wow, Dakota (and others), shunned in your own house??? That beats my situation. But then, we have no JW's living here. I suppose if I did, I'd experience the same thing. And it would end up breaking up my family as well.

  Unbelieveable hypocracy. It's kind of like they at some level they believe YOU still must think you owe them something. That you recognize you left due to some shortcoming on your part, not because you think their religion's hogwash. When I found out my sister, who lives in the same town I do, did not invite me to my neice's high school graduation, while she DID invite out-of-town JW's, it hurt. And when I confronted her (when she wanted to be at one of MY kid's events) what did she say? That she didn't want ME to be uncomfortable around all those ex-JWs (some elders) who would be at the event. Now why should I feel uncomfortable around THEM? I no longer play by THEIR rules. The event was about my niece, not them. I had nothing to be uncomfortable OR ashamed about. My guess is that this was the type of psycho game the JW's tried on you in your own house(?) Somehow it was worked out that YOU had to excuse yourself because deep down YOU were ashamed (?)...Ugh!!!!!! KWIM???

  What a bunch of twisted thinkers. Yes, the religion breaks up families, no doubt about it. I guess I'm at the point where I'm wanting their complex shunning games to blow up in their faces. Time will tell, I guess.

  Thanks again for sharing your experiences. I needed a reality check. You guys are great.
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  6

  The Shunning Paradox?

  by blacksheep in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i am in the midst of continuing bizarre hot/cold treatment from the jw members of my family, a thought occurred to me.

  if my jw family members don't like what i do, feel i've been led down the wrong path, and generally "disapprove" of me, why the heck not just avoid me altogether???

  why come into and out of my life in whenever they deem it desireable?.

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  blacksheep

  As I am in the midst of continuing bizarre hot/cold treatment from the JW members of my family, a thought occurred to me. If my JW family members DON'T like what I do, feel I've been led down the wrong path, and generally "disapprove" of me, why the heck not just AVOID me altogether??? Why come into and out of my life in whenever THEY deem it desireable?

  I finally laid it on the line with my sister, who wanted to be a part of a special life event of mine, while overtly shunning me from similar life events of hers. I called her on her hot/cold behavior. The reason she gave? There IS a distance between us because I'M not living life in accordance with her rules (she didn't say which rules, but they are the JW-imposed rules). So it's okay for her to insert herself into my life whenever she feels the urge, but to overtly deny MY participation in the same/similar parts of her life??

  Now, it seems to me MOST people would see the utter unfairness/undesireableness of that attitude. But not my sister, mother, and other JW relatives. Somehow they think it's okay to be involved in MY life on their terms during certain events/times, etc. But it's ALSO okay to overtly SHUN me or deprive me of partcipating in their life events, or in areas where most families would generally participate.

  So, what I'm thinking is that it MIGHT relate back to the shunning principle??? They cannot totally cut me out of their life because for shunning to really work, you've got to keep up a certain measure of contact(?) Does the "hot/cold" treatment keep you on your toes or something? Are they even doing it conciously?

  I mean if someone REALLY disapproves of you, why not just avoid you altogether? If I'm THAT bad, I'd think they wouldn't want to be around me at all, on any terms. So, I'm thinking this shunning thing really goes a bit deeper. Any thoughts??? Experiences? Explanations?
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  14

  Is Goal Setting Good Or Bad?

  by larc in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is goal setting good or bad?

  sounds like the title of an awake!

  goal setting can be very good in that it gives direction, purpose and accomplishment in a person's life.

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  blacksheep

  Oh, and btw, taken in the context of spirituality and setting "goals" in terms of hours/publication counting, I think the JW's whole system is a joke. Can you imagine Jesus (or Confucious, or any other great spiritual leader) seriously recommending meticulous reporting the hours you spent in preaching the 'good news"? Right. The whole ludicrous number game is at odds with true spirituality, true Christianity, and true concern for humanity.

  That's one of the whole major issues I've had with the JWs since I can remember. It's attempts at "logical" explanations of the bible, and of "faith," and their attempts to run what's supposed to be a spiritual organization like a business are ludicrous. That's why they do ludicrous things.
  
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  14

  Is Goal Setting Good Or Bad?

  by larc in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is goal setting good or bad?

  sounds like the title of an awake!

  goal setting can be very good in that it gives direction, purpose and accomplishment in a person's life.

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  blacksheep

  Yeah, you're right. It does sound like the simplistic black/white Awake articles. Of course nothing is typically all "good" or all "bad." Well, maybe some things. "Murder, Good or Bad?" sounds stupid, because "murder" is by definition, wrong. Goal setting? I don't think so. In some cases, quite necessary in fact.

  So, to suggest setting goals, whatever they are, are intrinsically bad, sounds a bit odd. Yes, of course, taken to the extreme, where it becomes a narrow, rigid course which fails to bend even in the face situations that come up which logically make a change in course wiser (or even necessary), yes they can be "bad." But few people get through life and feel any measure of success without setting and achieving some form of "goal."
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  16

  what the watchtower says about the bible

  by zev in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  *** w65 7/1 391 what is required to understand the bible?

  he does not impart his holy spirit and an understanding and appreciation of his word apart from his visible organization.

  *** w67 10/1 587 finding freedom with jehovah's visible organization ***

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  blacksheep

  Yeah. Any idiot should realize that no individual reader of the Bible could, on their own, figure out the importance of keeping track of every minute you spent "preaching" to others as well as an accurate log of how many books/pamphlets you left with others to turn it into a central body for record keeping and publication of "God's organization" *statistics*.

  Only God's "visible" organization could figure that out, and actually implement procedures to gather all this highly spiritual data.
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  6

  Celebrations

  by restorebeauty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  just wanted to know, do any of you celebrate holidays now.

  if so, was it a hard transition, if not, why not.. restorebeauty

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  blacksheep

  I've been out over 15 years, but began celebrating holidays with no guilt/remorse WHATSOEVER immediately. I never bought the lame reasons JW's offered for NOT celebrating anything: it seemed to me only an excuse to refrain from having fun, possible bonding with "worldlings," etc. When you really RATIONALLY think about it, JW's are on incredibly shakey ground when trying to find plausible excuses for actively NOT joining in celebrations. Hey, if they personally don't want to as individuals, that's there right, but the institutionalized way they go about shunning celebrations is stupid. They can find something "pagan" in everything.

  It's another one of their cult games. Now with small children, I cannot imagine life without a few special celebrations.

  They can be as ascetic as they like, it doesn't make them any better than anyone else.
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  15

  How You Can Encourage Mental Illness

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  first, you need to identify some outward signs of mental illness and then find ways to encourage their manifestation.

  paranoia: remember, you live in a world controlled by the devil and.

  his demons.

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  blacksheep

  Oops, sorry for the above, I had a tad bit more to say than "Wow." Not much, mind you.

  Anyway, very astute observation. As someone who's been "out" for over 15 years, I have to agree. I believe it was my sheer quest for mental stabilty and survival that forced me to "out" myself. Now, when I talk to my JW relatives (spoke with my sister about 3 weeks ago, and I doubt we'll be conversing any time soon), it was really as though I WAS talking to someone mental. The "normal" person (what Steve Hassan calls the "Mary/Mary") was there until we hit on certain topics. Then she became clearly the "Cult/Mary" and went off on all these totally ludicrous perceptions of reality. She was no longer my sister. I kid you not. Bizarre. Later, when I related pieces of our conversation to a couple of other "normal" non-JW people, without using any references to Steve Hassan, cults, weirdos, or ANYTHING, they said that my sister sounded "brainwashed." Their words exactly.

  They're right. In order for most JWs to survive in the religion, they have to employ various forms of mental illness to deal with "reality."