Over the years I've seen a few therapists (probably like most ex-JWs), and while I did not ask them to review the actual books, I summarized JW philosophy and what I was taught. Needless to say, every one of them found them to be a cult. Very unhealthy. Under the guise of superficial "wholesomeness" the whole message was poisonous and potentially very damaging to children. The truly psychologically grounded ones (of which I like to think myself a member), really hate the message and somehow find a way out...eventually. That does not excuse the cancerous JW message, but it at least gives a bit of hope. It's a free country, and they can write, and teach their children whatever they want.
blacksheep
JoinedPosts by blacksheep
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19
I got a Professional Opinion of 'Great Teacher' book.
by lisaBObeesa in(i did put this post on the other thread, but it is so far back on the thread i thought i would post it on it's own, too.
i showed page 170 and 171 of this book to a therapist i know to get her opinion.
i did not ask if i could quote her on the internet, so i will not give her name.
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865
WoMD ... so where are they?
by Simon innow, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!
perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.
now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.
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blacksheep
LOL! Francois....well said.
Haven't read the entire thread. But the liberal and democratic insistence on technicalities, while, IMO, missing the BIG picture, never ceases to amaze me.
And, it's not clear to me about the poor Brit guy who was alleged to "expose" British intelligence. Was it ruled as murder? Seems to me what I've heard is that they think it may be suicide. Any info? To me there's a big, big difference between the two. What have Brit forensics revealed?
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Kobe charged ! so sad !, will JW's use him as an example for their young ?
by run dont walk inanytime something went wrong in the world with an individual, they would use them as example over and over and over again.. the most common one i heard was brother a got into big trouble with __________ (insert problem here, pick any one), see this is what happens when you leave the organization.. so how many jw's will be saying ............. "did you hear what happened to kobe, big successful athlete, see he didn't have god's organization and satan got him.".
i wonder how many jw parents especially in the la area will make their kids stop wearing number 8. he did and admit to committing adultrey.
sexual assault, i don't think so.
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blacksheep
Wow, I've been out of the borg a long time. What JW's would think of the situation was the LAST thing on my mind. Who cares what they think? My bet is the rank and file don't even know who he is.
And, please. A "set up?" I don't think anyone here knows the facts. I really have to wonder how people who don't know this woman, don't know this man, for that matter, can draw conclusions based on pop culture perceptions of his "image." OMG, I couldn't believe I heard an NBC anchor tonight talk about "what was she doing up in his room anyway"? Right, she must be a slut. She got what she deserved.
As a matter of fact, it DOES sound just like the JW's to me.
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yesterday's Drama
by sandy ini am a little afraid this post will be a dead giveaway to who i am.
i am afraid of lurkers.
anyhow i am dying to get it off my chest and get some advice.
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blacksheep
Tough situation, but I agree with the prior poster: she's lucky to have you. I am assuming, maybe incorrectly, that the girl is baptized. If so, IMO she's got one foot out the JW door (which to me is a good thing, although tough). Years and years ago, when I just questioned some of the Bible's teachings as a 20 year old, my mom called me a "demon," and said she didn't want me living in her house. So I know how incredibly bizarre JW parents can be when threatened with children who have somehow NOT managed to be brainwashed by JW teachings.
You know your niece best, of course, but what I would do is have a discussion on how she feels about the JW teachings: obviously if she is interested in a "worldly" boy (typical loaded JW language. Translation: a person who is simply not a JW--I think I'd work on getting her to drop that pscyhologically undermining term from her vocab and call him what he is), there's a reason for that. I'd help her explore that. Does SHE feel it's wrong to have a boyfriend who is not a JW? (Hopefully she doesn't). I'd try to help her see that her mother's guilt tripping and threats are manipulative and basically par for the JW course. She IS 18, after all, a legal adult in the US, and should be free to see whomever she wants, JW or non-JW. It might be best for everyone that she find other living arrangements (as soon as is practical) because I don't think her mom is going to make life easy for her unless she follows the JW straight and narrow, and it doesn't appear to me that she wants to.
Having said that, if she's been raised as a typical JW, she likely is very naive when it comes to relationships, esp sexual relationships (or what might eventually be a sexual relationship). Some support on your part might help there as well. She's not going to get it from her mom.
Again, I don't know what her full situation is. All I can say is that when I was in high school (and after), there were boys I definately would like to have dated and who wanted to date me. It wasn't any kind of option, of course. My mom would flip out like her mom has (maybe not with suicide--how incredibly guilt tripping). I stayed away from witness boys because I knew any interest meant eventual marriage...as a result I think it took years for me to develop reasonably normal perspective on emotional/intimate relationships.
All you can do is be there for her and help her become an healthy adult, which in my mind, won't happen as long as JWs have a grip on her.
Good luck to her and to you.
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Having children ??? did the Watchtower have an affect on your decisions ???
by run dont walk ini remember growing up and thinking that there was no way i would have kids ......... why ???
....... because i did not want to raise them the way i was raised, in the borg.
i went through hell, why put a defenceless child through that.
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blacksheep
I really do believe it is ingrained into JWs that it's frivolous to actually WANT to have children. I know my JW sister claims all her 3 children were somehow "accidents." And I don't believe that for a minute. It seems to be somehow okay to get accidentally pregnant (while being married, of course). But few witnesses I knew claimed it was actually "planned"....hmm....
I remember my mother bemoaning a trend of pregnancies in the congregation, saying something like, "they sure should KNOW how to prevent them, but they obviously are not doing that..." They obviously like sex. (She was a die hard witness). And when I told her of my second pregnancy, she asked "was it planned"? What a stupid question. I told her, "whether it was planned or not, we are delighted." (it WAS planned).
Ugh. I really don't see ANY passages in JW literature that promotes having children. Good god, I recall having it drummed into married couples' heads that it was beneficial for them to "forego" sexual relations for a time to pursue spiritual interests, (what??)))..
Warped, warped reasoning is all I can say.
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Check your IQ in less than 13 minutes
by JH inthanks to quinah and nathan natas of another forum, here is the link to check your iq.
http://www.iqtest.com/.
it says i have an iq of 139 .
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blacksheep
Well, I got a 130 (much lower than many of you here!), but I can say that it was within ONE point of another, much more extensive, online test I took. So...at least I'm consistent!
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WATCHTOWER WARNING: Mobile Phones
by DevonMcBride in.
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/2002/10/22/article_01.htm
they are now paranoid about mobile phones.
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blacksheep
You know, this is a perfect example of how the JW's on the surface seem so "rational" and prudent. Yes, of course, do "count the cost" before "jumping into a major project" (buying a cellphone?). But then when you analyze it (if you really have the stomach for it), it's so stupid it is hard to believe. Right. In deciding whether to allow your child to own a cellphone, you of course, go to the Bible. As usual, the WTS uses "scriptural" passages to promote their personal agenda, in this case, high tech communications in the 21st century.
And then, I liked the piece about the boy and girl sharing their thoughts with each other throughout the day. Thank God her parents stepped in to prevent this dangerous behavior. It's like "unchaperoned" conversations. The fact that they are not phyically together doesn't matter. Their conversations about what's going on, what they are feeling, and sharing their thoughts of course could lead to unbridled passion, which in turn could lead to lewd and lascivious sexual behavior. THAT of course should be stopped. Thank god the girl when to her parents and the elders to help her put and end to this outrageous behavior of talking to her boyfriend on a cellphone. God, this just underscores the tremendous irrational guilt that JW children are instilled with.
This makes me recall a WTS article I read (on my way out, but this helped me go) on the "dangers" of allowing children to read fictitious material. It started out telling a story about a little girl who had just read Charlotte's Web, and then closed the book and actually kissed the spider on the cover. Warning sign...of course. Your child may become too emotionally involved with the characters of this make belief work, and of course, that takes their focus off of Jehovah. It could also be emotionally damaging to a child to get so involved with make believe characters. The article extended the point to actually reading ANY novels. I was a Jane Austen fan and my mother had wanted to discuss the article with me....
Ughhhh!!! Flashbacks of how stupid, baseless, and indoctrinating the JW publications are!
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Having children ??? did the Watchtower have an affect on your decisions ???
by run dont walk ini remember growing up and thinking that there was no way i would have kids ......... why ???
....... because i did not want to raise them the way i was raised, in the borg.
i went through hell, why put a defenceless child through that.
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blacksheep
Well, if you look at the history of JW teachings, they've pretty much pushed the "no children" rule off and on. Why? I'm sure it's because children take up so much time and enegy, which time and energy should be funneled to the borg.
Although I've been out for many years, I remember thinking that I didn't want to have children. I remember seeing crying babies carted out to backrooms in the KHs to be whipped until they stopped crying (yeah, right). I remember my infant nephew even being taken out and given swats in an effort to stop him from crying and stay still. AN INFANT.
Add to that the 3 meetings a week. Good grief, getting no only yourself (and your mate) fed, showered, dressed and in the car, for 1 or 2 hour long BORING meetings during which you had to keep you infants and toddlers somehow quiet, and THEN also try to get out in service at least a couple of times a week while doing the same prep work....OMG! No thanks! To the JW, children are work that simply interfers with their worship. And, to add to all that, having to make sure you carefully indoctrinate your child in the JW teaching, which includes, of course, insuring that he have no desire to celebrate holidays, birthdays, salute the flag, bascially have NO fun and/or be no part of the world....wow...sign me up (not).
It wasn't until I was out many, many years that my desire for children surfaced. I had two beautiful children rather late in life...and now I know what life is about. And thank god, no meetings, no trying to feed them a line of BS that they cannot possibly comprehend, no trying to hold them back and keep them in a small, ignorant, stiff box.
I would have had children far, far sooner if I had not been raised a witness.
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Do you consider the JWs as Christians?
by logansrun in.
are the jws to be counted as a "christian religion?
bradley
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blacksheep
“The way I see it all religion is a mental imaginative way to describe the unknown of death and it's consequences. It has caused as much hurt and death as it has good.”
I would agree with you, to a certain extent. I cannot claim to say that ALL religions do this. Although I am not a theologian, I think that SOME eastern religions (confuscism, etc), might have a more positive effect on people’s lives, and actually help integrate their social perception on many levels.
But, as far as Christianity goes (and even Islam), you are bang on. I think you have encapsulated the reason religion came into existence. I also believe it came into existence due to primitive humans' realization that they had very little control over their environment and fate. The concept of God(s) helped make life more logical and predictable (even if it was total bunk).
So much killing has been done in the name of religion. It’s been used ruthlessly as a tool. Look at the Crusades. Look at King Henry the VIII, who basically set up another Christian religion other than Catholocism when the Pope gave him slack, so that he could divorce his wife and marry his mistress. Look what he did to the Catholics in response. Look at Medieval history. Basically life was only a preparation for death…
JWs in my mind are a hold over from medieval life. Eschew this world. Don’t become educated in “worldly” things. Don’t think. Don’t live. Don’t try to get involved in community endeavors or in helping others, since the world is doomed. Just wait on Armageddon.
What a waste of human life. What a sell-out to humanity.
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Do you consider the JWs as Christians?
by logansrun in.
are the jws to be counted as a "christian religion?
bradley
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blacksheep
I think they represent a bastardized version of Christianity. They, unlike most other "Christian" religions put greater emphasis on the Old Testament, including the vengeful, destructive Jehovah, than they do on the teachings of Christ as set forth in the NT. They pull in Jesus when convenient (i.e. to support the foretelling of the "end of the system of things" and to pray to Jehovah THROUGH him, whatever...can't Jehovah HEAR ? But I think they miss the entire point of what "Christianity" Means.
Even their name gives you a clue.