yesterday's Drama

by sandy 30 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  sandy

  
  
  I am a little afraid this post will be a dead giveaway to who I am. I am afraid of lurkers.
  Anyhow I am dying to get it off my chest and get some advice. So here it goes.
  
  My 18 year-old niece who just graduated from high school told her mother (my sister) that she has a worldly boyfriend. OMG!! All hell broke loose. Well, not really but anyways........
  
  My niece called me up yesterday and asked me to give her a ride to her worldly grandparents (Father's side). I could tell she was upset so I asked her what is going on and she said I just told my mom I have a boyfriend.
  
  To that I responded "and".....? (thinking in my mind what is the big deal)
  
  My niece said: He's worldly (with her voice shaking because she is about to cry)
  
  I said: What did your mom say to you?
  
  My niece: She's mad and not talking to me, she is up in her room crying.
  
  Me: Ok, don't worry I'll be home in an hour and we'll talk. Don't cry, I love you.
  
  I get home and see that my niece is ready to go with a lot of her things packed. "What the hell!" I tell her I thought you were only leaving for a few days?"
  
  She said she is not planning to move out but she needs time for her mom to calm down. We leave and stop to eat dinner and talk. She tells me everything her wacko mom said to her. Things like:
  
  "I wish I was dead." "You know the boy is just going to cheat on you." "Why don't you just get married and come back to the truth after."
  

  "I am turning off your cell phone, I am not going to make it easier for you to talk to him." "I am cutting off all support from you so do not ask me for anything anymore."

  "You cannot live here with a worldly boyfriend" "I am not going to be like your grandparents, the way they are with Sandy (me)."
  
  My niece feels really bad for hurting her mom but she doesn't want to break up with her boyfriend. She is afraid her loon mother will commit suicide.
  
  I told her that her mom needs professional help. And that there is not anything she (my niece) can do that she should ever blame herself for if her mother was to ever do something that drastic. (Does that make sense?)
  
  Well I asked my niece if she wanted to talk to the elders and she said no but she knows her mom is going to tell them and she will eventually have to talk to them.
  
  She asked me what should she tell them and can she get in any trouble such as public reproof for dating a "Worldly boy". I wasn't sure how to answer her.
  
  She said she is not having sex or doing anything else one could get DF'd for.
  
  What do you think?
• 

  Fe2O3Girl

  Whew!

  Firstly, your niece is very lucky to have you around.

  Is this young lady baptized? Does she want to remain a JW? Bear in mind that there are no specific DFing offences - if the elders want you out - you're out. What would the consequences be? Is her mother likely to shun her? What are your niece's immediate plans? Is she going to college? Does she have a job?

  Her mother's melodramatic response is to be expected - remember everyone who is not a JW is depraved, untrustworthy and about to become Birdfood(TM) Real Soon Now(TM).

  18 is the age to be enjoying light romance and fun while you start to carve out what path she wants to take in life. I don't have any kids, but I think 18 is old enough to decide if you want a boyfriend, and who he'll be.
• 

  sandy

  Fe203girl,

  Thanks for the response. You are so right. I always encourage my niece to go to school and work part-time. She is planning to take some courses this fall.

  As far as being kicked out: My sister lives with my mom and my mom would never kick my niece out.

  There is more but I have to run up stairs for a moment.
• 

  RunningMan

  Yes, your niece is lucky to have you.

  I'm concerned that her mother's behaviour will push her further into the situation than she wants to be. What I mean is that most kids date. It may be serious or it may not be. By her mother forcing the situation, she is forcing her daughter to either give him up, or become real serious real fast.

  Basically, all you can do is give her support and counsel her to make her own decision. Do not let anyone push her in either direction.
• 

  blacksheep

  Tough situation, but I agree with the prior poster: she's lucky to have you. I am assuming, maybe incorrectly, that the girl is baptized. If so, IMO she's got one foot out the JW door (which to me is a good thing, although tough). Years and years ago, when I just questioned some of the Bible's teachings as a 20 year old, my mom called me a "demon," and said she didn't want me living in her house. So I know how incredibly bizarre JW parents can be when threatened with children who have somehow NOT managed to be brainwashed by JW teachings.

  You know your niece best, of course, but what I would do is have a discussion on how she feels about the JW teachings: obviously if she is interested in a "worldly" boy (typical loaded JW language. Translation: a person who is simply not a JW--I think I'd work on getting her to drop that pscyhologically undermining term from her vocab and call him what he is), there's a reason for that. I'd help her explore that. Does SHE feel it's wrong to have a boyfriend who is not a JW? (Hopefully she doesn't). I'd try to help her see that her mother's guilt tripping and threats are manipulative and basically par for the JW course. She IS 18, after all, a legal adult in the US, and should be free to see whomever she wants, JW or non-JW. It might be best for everyone that she find other living arrangements (as soon as is practical) because I don't think her mom is going to make life easy for her unless she follows the JW straight and narrow, and it doesn't appear to me that she wants to.

  Having said that, if she's been raised as a typical JW, she likely is very naive when it comes to relationships, esp sexual relationships (or what might eventually be a sexual relationship). Some support on your part might help there as well. She's not going to get it from her mom.

  Again, I don't know what her full situation is. All I can say is that when I was in high school (and after), there were boys I definately would like to have dated and who wanted to date me. It wasn't any kind of option, of course. My mom would flip out like her mom has (maybe not with suicide--how incredibly guilt tripping). I stayed away from witness boys because I knew any interest meant eventual marriage...as a result I think it took years for me to develop reasonably normal perspective on emotional/intimate relationships.

  All you can do is be there for her and help her become an healthy adult, which in my mind, won't happen as long as JWs have a grip on her.

  Good luck to her and to you.
• 

  SixofNine

  Tell her, only slightly joking, that if she marries this guy before she is...say....25, you will kill yourself. She needs a little yin with her yang. Give her lots of good advice and love, the kind that only a wordly person can give.
• 

  petespal2002

  It sounds as if your niece is worried about the reaction from the elders. Is this because of the effect she knows it will have on her mom, or is she concerned about what may happen to her? There is a strong chance the situation would lead to her being 'marked'. This happened to a girl in our cong. some time back. and was one of the most embarrassing situations I have ever come across. The marking talk itself was enough to make her suicidal, even though she knew the man she was with was worth hanging on to, (they have since married), the public humilaition in front of long-time friends was devastating.

  In my case I was dating a man classed as 'weak', so you can imagine! I was repeatedly counselled to stop seeing him,which I never did. My mom was beside herself and made it difficult for us to be together, which was heartbreaking at times as we were so close. However, to cut a long story short, it worked out in the end. My determination to keep my boyfriend was clear, and if I was not able to marry him I intimated we would live together. Needless to say that scenario was hideous and so we were married, in the KH (but that's another story.)

  Tell your niece to hang on in there.
• 

  bittersweet

  Sandy, I'm glad your neice has you to turn to for help.

  As far as I know, your neice can't be reproved or disfellowshipped for dating a so-called "worldly" guy. I would imagine though, that the elders would be hounding her about it. My sister in law dated a worldly guy, and eventually married him. Nobody ever bothered her much about it.She is still an active witness. I guess it all depends on the elders and the congregation she's in. I know that when I was growing up a JW, it was definately a bad thing to do, but not a lot could be done except a lot of talkings to. I wish yo and your neice all the best of luck with this situation.
• 

  calamityjane

  Sandy, I'm glad that your niece has you as an aunt to keep her level headed through this crisis with her mom.

  Good for your niece to have a "worldly" boyfriend. Give her lots of support and love. Let her know that there is nothing wrong with what she has done. I only wish I was smart like her to tell my parents at 18 what I would have rather done, but instead I got married to a witness guy, horrible marriage from the start. But at that time it was 1976 and I thought Armageddon was just around the corner.

  My sister lives with my mom and my mom would never kick my niece out

  And your sister, sounds like she needs to get a life and not live with your mom. Although I don't know anything about your sister, I'm sure there's a long story as to why she is living with your mom. Maybe you can enlighten us on her story later.
• 

  Nosferatu

  Here's something that might help you:

  People can tell you who you can and can't date, but all that "advice" goes to shit when you feel attraction for someone. Attraction isn't a choice, it's an emotional reaction to a person. God gave us this wonderful feeling of attraction for us to enjoy. In other words, it has nothing to do with Satan the devil.

  The following is from a David Deangelo newsletter, and in my opinion makes perfect sense:

  After working on this area of my own personal life for
  a few years, and trying all kinds of techniques, it finally
  dawned on me that ATTRACTION WAS BASICALLY EVERYTHING.

  If a woman feels ATTRACTION for a man, then nothing else
  really matters.

  Looks, age, nationality, wealth, religion, personal loss,
  peer pressure from friends and family... none of it matters!

  On the other hand, if a women DOESN'T feel ATTRACTION for
  a man, then nothing else matters in that case either!

  You can't "talk" a woman into feeling ATTRACTION, any
  more than you can "talk" a person who hasn't eaten for three
  days out of feeling hungry.

  Think of ATTRACTION like a drug (which it really is). If
  a woman is under the influence of it, then she's gone. She'll
  do anything to get more.

  If she's NOT under the influence, then YOU'RE gone. Nothing
  you do will matter if she doesn't feel it.