Posts by Bleep

55

Could man have free will if God cansee the future?

by sleepy in

.

some witness theological beliefs are, man has free will, god can see the future.. i used to wonder how this could work.for if god could see you were going to do something then you must do it, otherwise god is wrong, so therefore you had no choice.. take judas for example.jesus is believed to have known he would be betrayed by him.in fact it is suppossed to have been prophesied in psalms that someone close to him would do so.. if god could see that judas would kill jesus then once this predicion was made judas had no choice no free will to choose not to.so either god can't really see the furture and can just make predictions or man has no free will.if when god looks into the future this causes an event to happen , its gods fault if he see something bad happening , as if he didn't look it would not have been set in stone.. if it is predictions that god makes (not acktual knowledge of what will happen)then what are these based on?.

knowledge of the human brain and how it works?if so, then man actions are purly based on mechanisms within the brain that are so rigid that you with enought knowledge can know them thousands of years before.so if mans sins it not his fault , theres nothing he can do about it , he has no free will.so god is not just in punishing him.. whichever way it does not work out as fair or logical that a god could see the future and for man to have free will..

Bleep

Oh nevermind he is the one who started the thred.

Sleepy says, "I used to wonder how this could work."

Me - Does that mean you know how it works now?

55

Could man have free will if God cansee the future?

by sleepy in

.

some witness theological beliefs are, man has free will, god can see the future.. i used to wonder how this could work.for if god could see you were going to do something then you must do it, otherwise god is wrong, so therefore you had no choice.. take judas for example.jesus is believed to have known he would be betrayed by him.in fact it is suppossed to have been prophesied in psalms that someone close to him would do so.. if god could see that judas would kill jesus then once this predicion was made judas had no choice no free will to choose not to.so either god can't really see the furture and can just make predictions or man has no free will.if when god looks into the future this causes an event to happen , its gods fault if he see something bad happening , as if he didn't look it would not have been set in stone.. if it is predictions that god makes (not acktual knowledge of what will happen)then what are these based on?.

knowledge of the human brain and how it works?if so, then man actions are purly based on mechanisms within the brain that are so rigid that you with enought knowledge can know them thousands of years before.so if mans sins it not his fault , theres nothing he can do about it , he has no free will.so god is not just in punishing him.. whichever way it does not work out as fair or logical that a god could see the future and for man to have free will..

Bleep

Farkel,Who is this person "Sleepy"?

55

Could man have free will if God cansee the future?

by sleepy in

.

some witness theological beliefs are, man has free will, god can see the future.. i used to wonder how this could work.for if god could see you were going to do something then you must do it, otherwise god is wrong, so therefore you had no choice.. take judas for example.jesus is believed to have known he would be betrayed by him.in fact it is suppossed to have been prophesied in psalms that someone close to him would do so.. if god could see that judas would kill jesus then once this predicion was made judas had no choice no free will to choose not to.so either god can't really see the furture and can just make predictions or man has no free will.if when god looks into the future this causes an event to happen , its gods fault if he see something bad happening , as if he didn't look it would not have been set in stone.. if it is predictions that god makes (not acktual knowledge of what will happen)then what are these based on?.

knowledge of the human brain and how it works?if so, then man actions are purly based on mechanisms within the brain that are so rigid that you with enought knowledge can know them thousands of years before.so if mans sins it not his fault , theres nothing he can do about it , he has no free will.so god is not just in punishing him.. whichever way it does not work out as fair or logical that a god could see the future and for man to have free will..

Bleep

Farkel says, "It wasn't man, but God who created the organisms that cause diseases like AIDS, you dummy."

Me - True God made all organisms but he also set some guidelines on how to stay away from some sicknesses in the Bible. A sickness is caused by the immune system not being strong enough to destroy these diseases. Farkel's point is allmost like trying to blame a person from falling off a cliff. God created gravity why did he die from falling off?

Me again - Mankind made some of these nasty bugs. They just don't know how to combat them yet.

21

Add this to the X files!

by Bleep in

no elder will say you can not go to the authorities for this crime.. http://observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/article?date=20020605&category=jwandsociety1&artno=206050002&ref=ar

Bleep

jgnat says, "The Elder you describe is guilty by inaction."

Me - Elders are at the Kingdom Hall to guide people and not there to make decisions for the person going to them for guidence. It is allways based on going to the Bible at that time. Then the person that wanted help can make up their own mind of what do do.

55

Could man have free will if God cansee the future?

by sleepy in

.

some witness theological beliefs are, man has free will, god can see the future.. i used to wonder how this could work.for if god could see you were going to do something then you must do it, otherwise god is wrong, so therefore you had no choice.. take judas for example.jesus is believed to have known he would be betrayed by him.in fact it is suppossed to have been prophesied in psalms that someone close to him would do so.. if god could see that judas would kill jesus then once this predicion was made judas had no choice no free will to choose not to.so either god can't really see the furture and can just make predictions or man has no free will.if when god looks into the future this causes an event to happen , its gods fault if he see something bad happening , as if he didn't look it would not have been set in stone.. if it is predictions that god makes (not acktual knowledge of what will happen)then what are these based on?.

knowledge of the human brain and how it works?if so, then man actions are purly based on mechanisms within the brain that are so rigid that you with enought knowledge can know them thousands of years before.so if mans sins it not his fault , theres nothing he can do about it , he has no free will.so god is not just in punishing him.. whichever way it does not work out as fair or logical that a god could see the future and for man to have free will..

Bleep

Valis says, "If you guys could step away from the Jehovah business for a moment, we could have a good discussion, but I ask a logic question and you throw back faith answers...this will get us nowhere, so I'm going to refrain from this "debate" on free will."

Me - That is God's name why not use it? Jehovah is a God of logic since he created logic. The faith answers are the best kind. Valis has nothing else to add to the discorse on free will since he uses no logic but his own.

55

Could man have free will if God cansee the future?

by sleepy in

.

some witness theological beliefs are, man has free will, god can see the future.. i used to wonder how this could work.for if god could see you were going to do something then you must do it, otherwise god is wrong, so therefore you had no choice.. take judas for example.jesus is believed to have known he would be betrayed by him.in fact it is suppossed to have been prophesied in psalms that someone close to him would do so.. if god could see that judas would kill jesus then once this predicion was made judas had no choice no free will to choose not to.so either god can't really see the furture and can just make predictions or man has no free will.if when god looks into the future this causes an event to happen , its gods fault if he see something bad happening , as if he didn't look it would not have been set in stone.. if it is predictions that god makes (not acktual knowledge of what will happen)then what are these based on?.

knowledge of the human brain and how it works?if so, then man actions are purly based on mechanisms within the brain that are so rigid that you with enought knowledge can know them thousands of years before.so if mans sins it not his fault , theres nothing he can do about it , he has no free will.so god is not just in punishing him.. whichever way it does not work out as fair or logical that a god could see the future and for man to have free will..

Bleep

Valis says, "BTW, JanH of the "kick apollogist ass" class said that and I doubt Bleep wants any part of that hammering..*L*"

Me - What "hammering" and who's "ass"?

And what is *L*?

My God has everything to do with "Could man have free will if God can see the future" discussion.

55

Could man have free will if God cansee the future?

by sleepy in

.

some witness theological beliefs are, man has free will, god can see the future.. i used to wonder how this could work.for if god could see you were going to do something then you must do it, otherwise god is wrong, so therefore you had no choice.. take judas for example.jesus is believed to have known he would be betrayed by him.in fact it is suppossed to have been prophesied in psalms that someone close to him would do so.. if god could see that judas would kill jesus then once this predicion was made judas had no choice no free will to choose not to.so either god can't really see the furture and can just make predictions or man has no free will.if when god looks into the future this causes an event to happen , its gods fault if he see something bad happening , as if he didn't look it would not have been set in stone.. if it is predictions that god makes (not acktual knowledge of what will happen)then what are these based on?.

knowledge of the human brain and how it works?if so, then man actions are purly based on mechanisms within the brain that are so rigid that you with enought knowledge can know them thousands of years before.so if mans sins it not his fault , theres nothing he can do about it , he has no free will.so god is not just in punishing him.. whichever way it does not work out as fair or logical that a god could see the future and for man to have free will..

Bleep

Try to put the name of the person who said it next time.

55

Could man have free will if God cansee the future?

by sleepy in

.

some witness theological beliefs are, man has free will, god can see the future.. i used to wonder how this could work.for if god could see you were going to do something then you must do it, otherwise god is wrong, so therefore you had no choice.. take judas for example.jesus is believed to have known he would be betrayed by him.in fact it is suppossed to have been prophesied in psalms that someone close to him would do so.. if god could see that judas would kill jesus then once this predicion was made judas had no choice no free will to choose not to.so either god can't really see the furture and can just make predictions or man has no free will.if when god looks into the future this causes an event to happen , its gods fault if he see something bad happening , as if he didn't look it would not have been set in stone.. if it is predictions that god makes (not acktual knowledge of what will happen)then what are these based on?.

knowledge of the human brain and how it works?if so, then man actions are purly based on mechanisms within the brain that are so rigid that you with enought knowledge can know them thousands of years before.so if mans sins it not his fault , theres nothing he can do about it , he has no free will.so god is not just in punishing him.. whichever way it does not work out as fair or logical that a god could see the future and for man to have free will..

Bleep

Valis says, "Seems to me that your god got into a pissing contest with an inferior creature, or so it would seem Satan was inferior, but maybe not."

Me - Do not forget my Jehovah God is Love, Wisdom, Justice and Power.
Since Jehovah (my God and creator of all living things) is justice, he would let mortal man try to rule. Look what mankind has done so far. Three world wars, crime, death, AIDS and other diseases, and the list goes on and on.

pomegranate says, "How then can Satan be guilty in his murder? He was, as you say, not guilty in the deaths of Adam & Eve."

Me - Satan said in the Bible that in the time Eve at of the fruit they would become like God knowing good and bad. He forgot to tell them that it would be disobeying Jehovah. He lied and become the father of the lie.

Valis says, "Even with all the variants in his game like free will, if the outcome is known, because the playbook/bible says so, it still results in self gratification for your god, not the benefit of every living human on the planet.."

Me - Justice is not a game and never will be. The rules of this game comes from Jehovah since he created all things. It does benefit mankind since the question of who has the right to rule will never happen again.

Valis says, "Like I said earlier..an excercise in futility on his part, and for me a glaring example of why the bible does not represent who or what god might be."

Me - God inspired the Bible. Why would Jehovah want no one to come to a knowledge of the author of the Bible and at least a basic understanding about the author.

Valis says, "The creator of the problem doesn't kill his creation till it kills someone he loves dearly, regardless what happens to all the innocent bystanders in the mean time."

Me - Jehovah never created a problem. He knows what mankind needs and mankind wanted the desires of the flesh. Jehovah also keeps an accurate record of the ones he loves dearly. That way the ones who are meek will reap the benefits from being good in his eyes.

55

Could man have free will if God cansee the future?

by sleepy in

.

some witness theological beliefs are, man has free will, god can see the future.. i used to wonder how this could work.for if god could see you were going to do something then you must do it, otherwise god is wrong, so therefore you had no choice.. take judas for example.jesus is believed to have known he would be betrayed by him.in fact it is suppossed to have been prophesied in psalms that someone close to him would do so.. if god could see that judas would kill jesus then once this predicion was made judas had no choice no free will to choose not to.so either god can't really see the furture and can just make predictions or man has no free will.if when god looks into the future this causes an event to happen , its gods fault if he see something bad happening , as if he didn't look it would not have been set in stone.. if it is predictions that god makes (not acktual knowledge of what will happen)then what are these based on?.

knowledge of the human brain and how it works?if so, then man actions are purly based on mechanisms within the brain that are so rigid that you with enought knowledge can know them thousands of years before.so if mans sins it not his fault , theres nothing he can do about it , he has no free will.so god is not just in punishing him.. whichever way it does not work out as fair or logical that a god could see the future and for man to have free will..

Bleep

Saint says, "Most of us had swallowed that stuff in the past."

Me - What parts did you try to swallow?

Me says, "Because his universal sovereignty and his way of ruling had been brought into question."

Me - Brought to question by Satan the devil. Gods right to rule.

Valis says, "So Bleep's god is one who likes to play games."

Me - He is the creator and knows what mankind needs.

What did you mean by games? Any other word in the dictionary that can help you elaberate?

55

Could man have free will if God cansee the future?

by sleepy in

.

some witness theological beliefs are, man has free will, god can see the future.. i used to wonder how this could work.for if god could see you were going to do something then you must do it, otherwise god is wrong, so therefore you had no choice.. take judas for example.jesus is believed to have known he would be betrayed by him.in fact it is suppossed to have been prophesied in psalms that someone close to him would do so.. if god could see that judas would kill jesus then once this predicion was made judas had no choice no free will to choose not to.so either god can't really see the furture and can just make predictions or man has no free will.if when god looks into the future this causes an event to happen , its gods fault if he see something bad happening , as if he didn't look it would not have been set in stone.. if it is predictions that god makes (not acktual knowledge of what will happen)then what are these based on?.

knowledge of the human brain and how it works?if so, then man actions are purly based on mechanisms within the brain that are so rigid that you with enought knowledge can know them thousands of years before.so if mans sins it not his fault , theres nothing he can do about it , he has no free will.so god is not just in punishing him.. whichever way it does not work out as fair or logical that a god could see the future and for man to have free will..

Bleep

I found this most interesting. This might halp out with a more indepth discussion.
Is Our Future Written in Advance?

CHRISTIAN, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, or believer of another religion-people of all faiths experience tragedy and grieve over such.

For example, on December 6, 1997, a terrible tragedy occurred in the Siberian city of Irkutsk. A huge AN-124 transport airplane had barely lifted off when two of its engines failed. The plane, fully fueled, plunged into a residential complex. Flames engulfed a number of apartment houses, bringing death and injury to scores of helpless occupants, including innocent children.

In the area in Siberia where that accident took place, there are likely people with differing religious views. Some might express belief in Christianity, yet they could still think that the tragedy was a result of fate. They and others might feel, 'It was God's will, and if those who were killed did not die in this way, they would have died in another manner-it was their fate.'

Such thinking, whether vocalized or not, reflects a concept that finds a place in many religions around the globe-fate. Many people believe that our future, from the day of our birth to the day of our death, is somehow written in advance.

Belief in fate takes various forms, making an all-encompassing definition difficult. Fate basically conveys the idea that everything that happens, every act, every event-whether good or bad-is inevitable; it is destined to occur because it has been determined in advance by a higher force, beyond the control of man. Such a concept can be found in astrology, in Hinduism's and Buddhism's karma, as well as in Christendom's doctrine of predestination. Back in ancient Babylonia, men believed that the gods controlled fate and the future by means of a written document. Supposedly, any god who controlled these "tablets of destiny" could decide the fates of men, of kingdoms, and even of the gods themselves.

Many believers hold that by divine decree before humans are born, God determines all that will happen to people, including the length of their life, whether they will be male or female, rich or poor, miserable or happy. All of this is said to exist in God's mind or to be written in a book before it comes to be. Thus it is not uncommon for a believer to say when calamity strikes, "mektoub,"-it is written! It is reasoned that since God knows everything beforehand, he must also determine who will obey him and who will disobey. Many adherents thus believe that even before a person is born, God has already determined whether he is destined for everlasting bliss in Paradise or he will receive everlasting doom.

You may feel that this sounds very much like the doctrine of predestination taught in some churches of Christendom. The foremost Protestant proponent of predestination was the 16th-century French Reformer John Calvin. He defined predestination as "the eternal decree of God, by which he determined what he wanted to do with each man. Not all are created in the same condition, but eternal life is foreordained for some and eternal damnation for others." Calvin also asserted: "God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity; but also at his own pleasure arranged it."

Yet, not all members of religions that teach predestination or fatalism believe it personally. Some rightly point out that the religious writings mention man's free will. In fact, there has been great controversy over human actions, whether they are the consequence of a free human choice or they are predetermined by God. Some, for example, have argued that man must be free to choose and act, since God, who is just, holds man responsible and accountable for his acts. Others have said that God creates the acts of man but that man somehow "acquires" them and becomes responsible for them. Generally speaking, however, many hold that every event, large and small, in our daily lives has been decreed by God.

What do you believe? Has God already determined what your future will be? Do humans truly have free will, the ability to make real choices about their future? To what extent is our destiny contingent upon our own actions?

Source from Watchtower Library