The reactions you describe are amazing. However, I'm afraid, they will be typical.
The typical witness can't destinquish between the WTBTS and Jehovah God himself. Anything that is brought up as a negative towards the organization, is seen by the JW community as bringing reproach against Jehovah!!
blindfool
JoinedPosts by blindfool
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9
Cold hearted JWs
by target init just amazes me.
i sent the articles on child molestation to a jw back in wisconsin and her response was "so?".
my son sent the articles to a jw couple he thought were friends and their response was that the victims should keep quiet so as not to bring reproach on jehovah's organization and then they went to the elders and accused my son and daughter-in-law of being apostates.. they can be so cold hearted and never miss a chance to back stab a best friend.. well, it did accomplish one thing.
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blindfool
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Is Bill Bowen "cleansing the temple?"
by blindfool ini borrowed another tape recording from my mothers church.. in this sermon the pastor described how the jews were obsessed with their temple.
so much so that they really started worshipping the temple itself.
one obsession was how clean the temple had to stay.
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blindfool
I borrowed another tape recording from my mothers church.
In this sermon the pastor described how the Jews were obsessed with their temple. So much so that they really started worshipping the temple itself. One obsession was how clean the temple had to stay. Only certain ones were allowed inside, the lesser ones were kept further and further away, with the sick and dirty ones kept out of the temple altoghter.
This brought to mind the requirements of the WTBTS of keeping the congragaion clean. It also made me think about how so many witnesses really are making the soceity their God.
When the Bible tells of Jesus "cleansing the temple," he was in reality "trashing the temple." Because at the time, that is what was needed.So now we get to my real point. Is Bill Bowen really cleansing the temple? Is Bill just following the example of Jesus? Isn't that what true Christians are supposed to do?
When a supporter of Harry Truman's yelled at him to "Give 'em hell Harry," he said in reply, "I don't give 'em hell, I just tell the truth and they think its hell!"Well, "Give 'em Hell Bill!!!"
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Organized Religion
by blindfool ini've been thinking about this for a few days now and decided i'd go ahead and post this topic.
i know this may offend some loyal posters out there, but i'd like to throw this out for discussion.. is there something inherently wrong with a religion just because it is organized?.
does the ex-jw community understand that all churches don't feel that their members must tow the party line?
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blindfool
I've been thinking about this for a few days now and decided I'd go ahead and post this topic. I know this may offend some loyal posters out there, but I'd like to throw this out for discussion.
Is there something inherently wrong with a religion just because it is organized?
Does the ex-jw community understand that all churches don't feel that their members must tow the party line? Last week I borrowed a tape recording of a sermon preached at the Presbyterian Church that my mother attends. In this sermon, the minister was very critical of some of the actions of the Presbyterian Church USA, of which this congregation is a member. Not only did this not cause an uproar, most people in attendance didn't even wake up!! It is not uncommon for individual churches and ministers to have ongoing debates and disagreements with the official positions of most Protestant religions.
When I was a child growing up in the Presbyterian Church some members of our church had a problem and wanted to be baptized by emersion. Our minister at the time agreed and met them at the house of one of our church members who had a swimming pool. He did the baptism thing and everybody was happy. This particular minister is now a teacher at Columbia Seminary.
I don't know that there is anything special about Presbyterians, its just that it is with this particular denomination that I have experience with. I do know that I saw and experienced more love from these people than I ever have from JW's. It is back to this congregation that I would return if or when I have the freedom to choose.
My point here is not to say that being a part of an organized religion is a prerequisite to be a Christian. I just hope some will open their hearts and see that not all religions are like the WTBTS.
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PRESS- Silentlambs-More to Follow---
by silentlambs in, http://www.courier-journal.com/localnews/2002/05/08/ke050802s203205.htm.
jehovah's witnesses act against abuse-policy critics .
by peter smith .
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blindfool
Mr. Bowen,
This is important work and you are a good man for taking up this cause.Many Thanks,
BDF
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An End To Df'ing..Would It Satisfy You?
by Englishman ini was just wondering if an end to disfellowshipping might be enough to solve some other major problems, as well as deflecting criticism away from the society.. people could act on their own conscience over blood, for example.
sure, the wtbts could still say it was wrong to have a blood transfusion if they felt so inclined, but at least people would be able to make a decision based on a belief rather than acting out of fear of shunning.
it would certainly take the heat off the wtbts.. it would also take away the rage that exs feel when their families are instructed to shun them, so that the ex becomes a major and formidable opponent against the witness religion.
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blindfool
In my mind the df'ing policy is only one problem with the WTBTS.
A major problem indeed, but only one.I think the policy on only 144,000 annointed Christians being in communion with Christ bothers me just as much.
The 1914 belief, God's only chanell belief, the can't understand the Bible without us belief.
No, changing the policy of df'ing would not do it for me.
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Final Part, Why Believe in God?
by jst2laws inwhy believe in god, final part .
bear with me a moment while i inter the forbidden territory of explaining what i believe to be the spiritual message.. everything in the hebrew scriptures are an object lesion to show us what god does not want.
able and cain offered sacrifices as well as noah without god asking for it.
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blindfool
Gumby,
I did not mean to imply that a church should operate just as the congragations of the first century operated. I only wanted to highlight the fact that Christians should be able to congragate.I do think there are churches and individual congragations of christians that as a group, really seek and have guidance from Gods Holy Spirit.
Maybe I need to give some additional background here.
I was raised in the Presbyterian Church. The congragation I attented was very small and was really an extented family. My mother and sister still attend this church. I really believe I see true christianity being displayed by the members of this church. I also am convinced that other churches and congrations of many donominatiions of christian churches are guided by Holy Spirit.
I'm not saying that I think being part of an organized religion is a prerequisite of being a christian. I'm just saying that I do believe true believers can be found at many churches. I'm also saying that I don't think there is anything paticularly wrong with a religion based solely on the fact that it is organized.
I think most former JW's still cling to the WTBTS's teachings about how bad churches are. I would just like to encourage former members to be open minded about all things, even organized religion.
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Final Part, Why Believe in God?
by jst2laws inwhy believe in god, final part .
bear with me a moment while i inter the forbidden territory of explaining what i believe to be the spiritual message.. everything in the hebrew scriptures are an object lesion to show us what god does not want.
able and cain offered sacrifices as well as noah without god asking for it.
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blindfool
Just2laws,
I've very much enjoyed your posts on this subject.
I do have a question, however.
If Jesus's message did not include an organized religion, how do you explain the Christians of the first century?
These early Chistians were divided on many aspects of their beliefs, but did remain organized.
I've been chastised here before for suggesting that religion can be organized. I'll probably get it again. I do think that a group of Christians can come together to support each other and keep their personal relationship our savior intact.
The WTBTS has turned many people away from God altogether and many more against any kind of organized religion. In my mind, this is one thing the JW leaders will be made to answer for. -
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What does everyone here DO anyway?
by In_between_days inhi everyone,.
i am a new poster who is putting off their own personal story of finding this site for a while..... i find alot of people here utterly fascinating, and would like to know..... exactly what is everyones professional field of work?.
i would like to be a full time poster on this forum, but alas, the $$$$ are quite light in that field of work.. apologies if this has been asked before.. just curious.
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blindfool
I'm a bouncer at Joys' brothel!
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Signs Be Fulfilled, The End Is Next!
by U.2.K. inalright now i remeber, the leader who spoken from his tongue that he is preparing to make peace & security for his land was that guy from afgan> i still dont know his name.. anyway if you notice, the last sign is on a low scale, but i'm praying that it will come in my life time, i'm only 20 so i'm young..my guess armageddon is going to take place around 2015-2017, or maybe even before that.. .
cause it is written: +for you know when the world start to speak "peace & safety" then sudden destruction come.
sudden is not for man days, but jehovah days.. so i guess, that we all who is living right now, is infact living in the last days/last century, cause the last sign is already here, but it's gotta be on a worldwide scale, then those who seek righteousness, will be hid and those who continue to be ignorant of the truth, we fall.
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blindfool
Sorry U2K but the only facts are that we are living today and could die at any time. We are much more likely to die in a car wreck or of natural causes than by Armageddon.
I'm so happy that in your long 20 years you have been able to find all the facts. Now open your mind and let yourselve really learn what this old world has to offer. -
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Signs Be Fulfilled, The End Is Next!
by U.2.K. inalright now i remeber, the leader who spoken from his tongue that he is preparing to make peace & security for his land was that guy from afgan> i still dont know his name.. anyway if you notice, the last sign is on a low scale, but i'm praying that it will come in my life time, i'm only 20 so i'm young..my guess armageddon is going to take place around 2015-2017, or maybe even before that.. .
cause it is written: +for you know when the world start to speak "peace & safety" then sudden destruction come.
sudden is not for man days, but jehovah days.. so i guess, that we all who is living right now, is infact living in the last days/last century, cause the last sign is already here, but it's gotta be on a worldwide scale, then those who seek righteousness, will be hid and those who continue to be ignorant of the truth, we fall.
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blindfool
So now the last days will end in 2015 or 2017, maybe before!?!
Keep praying but don't stop living. Please don't plan to live only another 13-15 years here on this earth. Don't give up school, or work at meaningless jobs for the hope of this old system ending in a few years.
Read the stories of other people here on the board and how they gave up so much of their lives for this organization. Put your faith in God and his son Christ Jesus. Be careful not to put your faith into the hands of the men who control the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society.