Posts by blondie

33

At what point, does one become apostate to the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by Vanderhoven7 in

at what point does a jehovah’s witness cease to be a jehovah’s witness?

what if a witness doesn't believe some of the official teachings of the governing body but remains silent on these subjects to avoid being disfellowshipped?

is he or she an apostate to the faith?

blondie

That sums it up Vanderhoven7. The WTS says that they can judge people "as a group" saying the religious leaders of Jesus day, if they did not repent before they died, would not be resurrected.. As they say, they don't then they say but they do. As I have said many times on here the WTS has said that elders cannot read hearts and minds, in my opinion, makes them unqualified to make judgements of death on others. One person I knew before a judicial committee, their judgment did not have any effect on that person, the only judgment they were concerned about was God's, who can read minds and hearts.. In the end only he or his representative Jesus are qualified to that. Yes, that always bothered me too. Like elders saying that are only imperfect to excuse the mistakes, but then say that imperfect men can judge others.

I will add that the WTS has said disfellowshipping is like death, since Jews that committed capital crimes were put to death. They then say that the families of the Jew put to death could not talk to that family member. So family and friends of people df'd today, could not talk to that person. (Just reporting WTS ideas, not supporting)

30

Were can you find Jesus' witnesses?

by Kosonen in

jw
friends

in the revelation book it talks about jesus' witnesses.

were are true witnesses of jesus, not those who teach that jesus is the almighty god, but really true witnesses of jesus.. this is what the revelation book ways about witnesses of jesus:.

19:10 ..... brothers who have the work of witnessing concerning jesus.

blondie

Vanderhoven7, you are correct, I did a comment on this years ago, doing a list like the one shared on here. Here is a connection, the WTS teaches that Isaiah 43:10-12 is a spiritual type of the "anointed" the true and only "spiritual witnesses of Jehovah" leaving out the great crowd. When the WTS uses Galatians 6:16, Paul there is referring to anointed Christians only. "The new nation is the anointed Christian congregation, born at Pentecost 33 C.E. Its first members were Jewish disciples of Jesus who accepted him as their heavenly King. (Acts 2:5, 32-36) However, they were members of God’s new nation, not on the basis of their Jewish descent, but on the basis of faith in Jesus. Thus, this new Israel of God was something unique—a spiritual nation. When the majority of the Jews refused to accept Jesus, the invitation to be part of the new nation was extended to the Samaritans and then to the Gentiles. The new nation was called “the Israel of God.”—Galatians 6:16." w95 7/1 p. 11-12

In fact, never are the "other sheep" (WTS definition) called "spiritual Israelites" and the WTS makes references of these of their being in the new covenant, and the WTS says that the "other sheep" or "great crowd" are not taken into that covenant. Thus per their definition, non-anointed jws are not "spiritual Israelites" thus not Jehovah's witnesses as Isaiah says, since Isaiah's words were only directed to Israelites. I know this may seem complicated but the WTS likes it that way.

20

Is the WT right that the Lamb's marriage is after Armageddon?

by Kosonen in

the wt org claims that the lamb's marriage will happen after armageddon, despite the fact that revelation 19 very clearly says that the lamb's marriage happens after the destruction of babylon the great.

and that after the lamb's marriage he with heavenly armies will go to destroy the wicked.. the wt claims that the order of events in revelation 19 is not really in that order referring to psalm 45. but i can't find in psalm 45 any explicit contradiction to revelation 19. .

paragraph 10 in the following article shows the wt org's view point:.

blondie

w2014 Feb 15, p. 10

12, 13. (a) When will the marriage of the Lamb take place? (b) In heaven, who will rejoice over the marriage of the Lamb?

12 As anointed Christians finish their earthly course during Christ’s presence, they are resurrected to heavenly life. Sometime after the destruction of Babylon the Great, Jesus will gather to himself all the remaining members of the bride class. (1 Thess. 4:16, 17) Before the outbreak of the war of Armageddon, therefore, all members of the “bride” will be in heaven. After that war, the marriage of the Lamb can take place. What a joyful occasion that marriage will be! “Happy are those invited to the evening meal of the Lamb’s marriage,” states Revelation 19:9. Happy indeed will be the 144,000 members of the bride class. And the Bridegroom-King will be overjoyed to have the total number of his royal associates symbolically ‘eating and drinking with him at his table in his Kingdom.’ (Luke 22:18, 28-30) However, rejoicing over the marriage of the Lamb will not be limited to the Bridegroom and his bride.

167

Anthony Morris the III has been FOUND

by Terry in

jw
friends

note: photos can be found on the blue envelope channelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nakezkhqbmtony and susan morris are living in lumberton, north carolina.

a real estate document on the robeson county website is filed:.

the religious order of jehovah's witnesses has provided a "life estate" for them.they can live in this townhouse until they are deceased or choose to move away and in either case the ownership becomes entirely the property of jehovah's witnesses.

blondie

I'm not surprised. I think AMIII has some info that makes the WTS nervous.

19

Jehovah's witness cannot perform marriages in Norway

by blondie in

jw
friends

https://cne.news/article/3409-norwegian-court-maintains-jehovah-s-witnesses-ban-on-sealing-marriage .

blondie

I would say it is not a good idea to assume that the laws in the US are similar to Norway. Yes, in the US, performing a marriage may be a civil thing. In the US, a judge can perform a marriage or some other public official. In Norway, "Church weddings may be conducted by a clergyman of the Church of Norway or a priest or minister of a registered religious community. "This means that the WTS has to be licensed for a member to perform the wedding. (I will add the a person in the US can get official standing in some "legal" religion that issues documents that they are a member of that religion)

Thus as the following says' If the wedding is to take place in a religious community, this community must be registered and licensed to perform wedding ceremonies. .

https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/families-and-children/innsiktsartikler/marriage-and-cohabitation1/vilkar-for-ekteskap/id672620/#:~:text=Church%20weddings%20may%20be%20conducted,licensed%20to%20perform%20wedding%20ceremonies.

33

At what point, does one become apostate to the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by Vanderhoven7 in

at what point does a jehovah’s witness cease to be a jehovah’s witness?

what if a witness doesn't believe some of the official teachings of the governing body but remains silent on these subjects to avoid being disfellowshipped?

is he or she an apostate to the faith?

blondie

Notice that the WTS does use a weasel word "apparently." The WTS has disavowed that a similar "executional judgment was passed on Sodom and Gomorrah, flipping back and forth several times.

WT 1965 3/15 p. 166

Speaking of Noah’s day, 2 Peter 3:6, 7 says: “The world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water. But by the same word [of God] the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men.” Apparently there is no hope of a resurrection for those dying in that executional flood.

WT Sep 2022 p.16

The third group comprises the goats, who will be destroyed at Armageddon. Their names are not in the book of life. Jesus says that they “will depart into everlasting cutting-off.” (Matt. 25:46) Under inspiration, Paul tells us that “these very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction.” (2 Thess. 1:9; 2 Pet. 2:9) The same could be said of those who, down through time, have deliberately sinned against the holy spirit. They too receive everlasting destruction, not everlasting life. Clearly, they will not be resurrected. (Matt. 12:32; Mark 3:28, 29; Heb. 6:4-6) Let us now take a closer look at two groups of people who will be resurrected on earth.

(the issue is here what is a “judgment period” as defined by the WTS.) What was the most recent statement about Sodom and Gomorrah and people dying there when fire rained down on them during Lot’s day)

While the WTS has disavowed the people of Sodom not being resurrected for now, no where does the WTS say that the people who died in the flood will be resurrected. That is how to look at WT info, not just what they say, but what they don’t say.

WT July 15 2005 p. 31

Those who are judged unworthy of a resurrection are pitched into “Gehenna,” or “the lake of fire.” (Matthew 5:22; Mark 9:47, 48; Revelation 20:14) Among these would be the first human pair, Adam and Eve, the betrayer Judas Iscariot, and certain ones who died when God executed judgment upon them, such as the people in Noah’s day and the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah.a

19

Jehovah's witness cannot perform marriages in Norway

by blondie in

jw
friends

https://cne.news/article/3409-norwegian-court-maintains-jehovah-s-witnesses-ban-on-sealing-marriage .

blondie

https://cne.news/article/3409-norwegian-court-maintains-jehovah-s-witnesses-ban-on-sealing-marriage

34

If You Can Remember When This Was Displayed in the KH - You Ain't No Spring Chicken!

by mikronboy in

jw
friends

.

blondie

When this was done, jws were given a quota of 10 hours per month minimum to meet. (Thus the carryover that potential elders/ms must put ten hours/month in. The WTS dropped the quota because jws would just do enough to meet the 10 hours, and then do other things with their time. The WTS decided that members should put in more time "if able" and stopped using that chart.

33

At what point, does one become apostate to the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by Vanderhoven7 in

at what point does a jehovah’s witness cease to be a jehovah’s witness?

what if a witness doesn't believe some of the official teachings of the governing body but remains silent on these subjects to avoid being disfellowshipped?

is he or she an apostate to the faith?

blondie

The WTS teaches that minor children who cannot make decisions for themselves (which the would put babies in this category) are protected by the status of just one parent, that is if one parent is "faithful" to jah (=WTS) they will survive. The WTS notes that the minor children of the people who died at the flood died forever. They can quibble about this, but this what I have been told over the 60 years of my contact with the WTS. Babies with non-jw parents (both) will die forever too with their parents, even pregnant women. But the WTS will dance around an answer like that.

33

At what point, does one become apostate to the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by Vanderhoven7 in

at what point does a jehovah’s witness cease to be a jehovah’s witness?

what if a witness doesn't believe some of the official teachings of the governing body but remains silent on these subjects to avoid being disfellowshipped?

is he or she an apostate to the faith?

blondie

"even thinking" I think the WTS "thinks" they and their representatives can "read minds," in print they admit they cannot. Of course if you speak your thoughts to someone or someones that can report you to the elders, that is different. I know the WTS thought they had verbal statements made to other jws who testified that (and could have lied to save their skin), that would have moved the WTS to use that. Ray Franz was not df'd and then left Bethel. That took place some time after when he was seen having dinner with a da'd jw. Interestingly enough, Ray's wife was also at that dinner but was not df'd or considered having da'd herself (straight from her and Ray to me in their kitchen.

WTS written comments on "reading minds" or hears to be added in an edit shortly.

WT March 2023 p. 30 Granted, Jesus could read hearts. We cannot. But we can make allowances for the imperfections of our brothers and sisters.

WT August 2022 p. 31 Like Joseph, we leave the judging to Jehovah. For example, we do not presume to know what motivates our brothers and sisters to act as they do. We cannot read hearts; only “Jehovah examines the motives.”

Come Be My Follower Chap. 4 p.39

WT October 2021 p. 6 The elders cannot read hearts, so they must rely on outward evidence that their brother has had a complete change of viewpoint toward his sin

WT 5/1/2001 p. 11 Yes, our Christian brothers and sisters can serve as “a strengthening aid” to us during life’s difficult moments and thus help us to preserve our joy. (Colossians 4:11) Of course, they cannot read our minds.

WT also, can supply source if asked.

Granted, Jesus could read hearts. We cannot. But we can make allowances for the imperfections of our brothers and sisters.